The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Reigning Houses > British Royals

Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #1341  
Old 01-31-2014, 11:35 PM
Royal_Royal's Avatar
Gentry
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: City, Denmark
Posts: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARG View Post
Unfortunately what she wants really doesn't matter here. As previously stated, Queen Consorts everywhere but the UK, and doesn't that look splendid!

At a time that the eyes of the world will be on the UK and the monarchy they go ahead and score the ultimate own goal, cementing forever the impression that it is controlled by small minded, vindictive people and a gutless government and monarchy.

The coronation would be a travesty showcasing the utter meanness of spirit and humiliation of Camilla, Princess Consort and only Camilla as we are led to believe that Catherine will be William's Queen Consort.

Perhaps it is a portent that the UK is about to ditch the whole "Coronation" concept and follow their European cousins . . . maybe the King will be proclaimed, in much the same way the Danes do, by the Prime Minister from the balcony of Buckingham Palace with King Charles wearing mourning dress.
I totally agree with you.

What about the other Realms? Will they embark in this stupid nonsense? Or she will HRH The Princess Consort of the United Kingdom and Her Majesty The Queen of Canada at the same time.

It's ridiculously disgusting. A horrible slap in the face of history and tradition.

I already think it's ridiculous Her Royal Highness not being titled as Princess of Wales (as if the title was specially designed for Diana). Not a allowing her to be Queen will be going too far.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #1342  
Old 01-31-2014, 11:44 PM
sthreats's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: midwest, United States
Posts: 398
I think the problem is the average person isn't very well read . We get all our news from twitter, tabloids and blogs. When the news says ' Queen Camilla '-the response is She will never be my Queen. She can't take the Place of Queen Elizabeth.. Etc. (And of course the CDC triangle )

People seem not to understand the 'queen consort ' concept-- that the queen in this instance is not a ruler and is not equal to the king.

Given this I think 'Princess Consort' is a wise move. But I agree that they shouldn't go back and forth. Duchess Kate should have the same title when the time comes.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #1343  
Old 02-01-2014, 04:55 AM
Lumutqueen's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Carlton, York, United Kingdom
Posts: 18,121
Quote:
Originally Posted by royalistbert View Post

Queen consorts all around Europe and Camilla a mere Princess Consort. Man up Charles.
Got nothing to do with Charles, as you can see, it's Camilla who's calling the shots. I imagine Charles, of all people, wants his wife to be Queen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
If this is true, Charles has really lost the plot. Can someone explain this to me. The wife of a King is Queen, why would Charles want the government to mess around with the constitution and invent the title "Princess Consort" because it doesn't exist ?
If Camilla doesn't want to be Queen, why did she marry The Prince of Wales?
Again, we haven't seen anything that says Charles agrees with Camilla's idea. Camilla chose to be The Duchess of Cornwall and not use The Princess of Wales style, and she is choosing to use the title the british public would prefer her to use by the looks of it. Charles isn't messing with anything.
Camilla will be Queen in all but name, and seeing as it's been reinforced after nearly 9 years of marriage it looks like it's staying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Royal_Royal View Post
I already think it's ridiculous Her Royal Highness not being titled as Princess of Wales (as if the title was specially designed for Diana). Not a allowing her to be Queen will be going too far.
She is titled The Princess of Wales, Camilla chooses not to use that style and is known as The Duchess of Cornwall.
__________________
We Will Remember Them.
Reply With Quote
  #1344  
Old 02-01-2014, 05:07 AM
Victorian-Dandy's Avatar
Gentry
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: York, United Kingdom
Posts: 83
I cannot see what all the fuss is about Prince Consort was good enough for Victoria's Albert, so Princess Consort is good enough for Camilla, especially if she desires that title and others are willing for her to have it.

Instead of breaking with tradition it is harking back to one of the greatest marriages and lover affairs the British Royal family have ever seen and personally I think it's a nice little nod in the direction of Queen Victoria and Prince Albert.
Reply With Quote
  #1345  
Old 02-01-2014, 05:52 AM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 10,194
The difference is that the wife always takes the full set of titles and styles of her husband not the other way round e.g. The Queen was known as The Duchess of Edinburgh from her marriage until her accession because George VI gave Philip a title and not her. Giving her a title would have left Philip as Lt Philip Mountbatten.

All wives of the Kings of England/Scotland and the UK have had the title and style of Queen Consort while the husbands of the Queens have been Prince/s unless Kings in their own right to begin with - so Anne, Victoria and Elizabeth's husbands were all only Princes because a wife can't raise a husband in status.

That Camilla is The Princess of Wales is because she is the wife of the Prince of Wales who also has a string of other title so she had a string to choose from.

When he becomes King that will be his only title so legislation will be required to strip her of her rightful title and give her a lower one - including going against the advice given the Edward VIII in 1936 that there is no such thing in the UK as a morganatic marriage - but that is what Camilla taking the title of Princess Consort would mean - that in fact Edward VIII was lied to by his government because it would have been possible.

As for her titles in the other realms - that would depend on whether or not she has any official status there anyway e.g. I believe that in Canada the BRF are separately the CRF and so hold the style in the UK of Prince/Princess of Canada whereas in Australia they don't. By courtesy they are given the same titles they use in the UK but they aren't separately 'of Australia'. The Queen is, of course, Queen of Australia but Philip isn't a Prince of Australia - so Camilla would be referred to here by whatever title she uses in the UK as a courtesy only.

That would mean that in Canada they too would have to pass the legislation to strip her on the title of Queen, I would imagine whereas Australia would have to do nothing.
Reply With Quote
  #1346  
Old 02-01-2014, 07:12 AM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: England, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,250
I don't think there will be any formal legislation passed stripping Camilla of the title Queen, IMO it will be done as now - she will be Queen legally just as she is technically Princess of Wales now but choose to use a lower title. That also opens up people and the media possibly after several years starting to slowly refer to her as Queen (not saying they will just saying by holding the title but using a lower one its not cutting anything out unlike passing legislation would).
Bear in mind this is likely all been discussed by, for example, HM The Queen, the Prince of Wales, Camilla and people who know how these things work - they will all bear in mind that they don't want to change hundreds of years of history so I doubt there will be any legal removal of the title leaving it open for 'Queen Catherine'.
Reply With Quote
  #1347  
Old 02-01-2014, 07:38 AM
padams2359's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: New Orleans, United States
Posts: 524
I think Charles may go through the coronation alone. Charles being a widower sort of negates the divorce, and he did not remarry until Diana was already deceased. Camilla however still has a husband lives. This sort of goes back to the Duchess of Windsor issue. I think it will be more of the Morganic marriage, except the heirs are already secured. These little loopholes will be how Camilla gets the P. Consort title, but still leaves the Queen title open for Catherine. JMO
Reply With Quote
  #1348  
Old 02-01-2014, 04:39 PM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 10,194
The difference between using the titles Princess of Wales and Duchess of Cornwall is that Charles is both The Prince of Wales and Duke of Cornwell.

When he becomes King the only title his wife can take is Queen Consort.

To take any other title will take LPs to create her Princess Consort but to create her with a lower title will mean legislation to strip her of the higher one - and that was stated in 2005 by the PM (Blair) when asked about her titles in parliament just before the wedding.
Reply With Quote
  #1349  
Old 02-01-2014, 05:27 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ipswich, United Kingdom
Posts: 775
Quote:
Originally Posted by sthreats View Post
I think the problem is the average person isn't very well read . We get all our news from twitter, tabloids and blogs. When the news says ' Queen Camilla '-the response is She will never be my Queen. She can't take the Place of Queen Elizabeth.. Etc. (And of course the CDC triangle )

People seem not to understand the 'queen consort ' concept-- that the queen in this instance is not a ruler and is not equal to the king.

Given this I think 'Princess Consort' is a wise move. But I agree that they shouldn't go back and forth. Duchess Kate should have the same title when the time comes.
In every single fairy tale there is King and Queen not King and Princess Consort.
Reply With Quote
  #1350  
Old 02-01-2014, 05:31 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ipswich, United Kingdom
Posts: 775
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victorian-Dandy View Post
I cannot see what all the fuss is about Prince Consort was good enough for Victoria's Albert, so Princess Consort is good enough for Camilla, especially if she desires that title and others are willing for her to have it.

Instead of breaking with tradition it is harking back to one of the greatest marriages and lover affairs the British Royal family have ever seen and personally I think it's a nice little nod in the direction of Queen Victoria and Prince Albert.
Over a thousand of years of having Queen consorts and then suddenly have a Princess Consort.
Reply With Quote
  #1351  
Old 02-01-2014, 05:32 PM
Lumutqueen's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Carlton, York, United Kingdom
Posts: 18,121
There's usually an evil witch, a Prince Charming, some dwarfs, a drama and some kind of damsel Princess. Your point is fiction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by royalistbert View Post
Over a thousand of years of having Queen consorts and then suddenly have a Princess Consort.
Now you know there's a reason to the Princess Consort title being brought up, so there's no point questioning it with tradition. Unless you count Henry VIII and his actions were dismissed due to his power, this situation has never happened before and Camilla seems to think it's appropriate things may need to change.
__________________
We Will Remember Them.
Reply With Quote
  #1352  
Old 02-01-2014, 05:40 PM
cepe's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 5,397
I can think of one reason for this - apart from Camilla wanting to avoid flack and that's not enough IMO - and that is to try and avoid anyone challenging the legality of the marriage again! Not being crowned Queen Consort might avoid it. IMO anyone who wants to challenge will do it anyway but...........
__________________

This precious stone set in the silver sea,......
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England,
Reply With Quote
  #1353  
Old 02-01-2014, 06:10 PM
cinrit's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Deep South, United States
Posts: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
The difference between using the titles Princess of Wales and Duchess of Cornwall is that Charles is both The Prince of Wales and Duke of Cornwell.

When he becomes King the only title his wife can take is Queen Consort.
I think she should be known as Queen Consort, just as the wives of every other King is Queen Consort. But won't Charles also be the Duke of Lancaster? In that case, is it possible that Camilla could be known as the Duchess of Lancaster?
Reply With Quote
  #1354  
Old 02-01-2014, 06:34 PM
Ish's Avatar
Ish Ish is offline
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 2,945
Quote:
Originally Posted by cepe View Post
I can think of one reason for this - apart from Camilla wanting to avoid flack and that's not enough IMO - and that is to try and avoid anyone challenging the legality of the marriage again! Not being crowned Queen Consort might avoid it. IMO anyone who wants to challenge will do it anyway but...........

How can the legality of the marriage be challenged? That doesn't make sense to me.

The very real issue of having her established as anything other than Queen Consort is that it creates morganatic marriage within Britain - going against a thousand years of tradition - at a time when royal houses are moving towards ending morganatic marriages.
Reply With Quote
  #1355  
Old 02-01-2014, 09:48 PM
DukeofMontpelier's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Putney, United States
Posts: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by cinrit View Post
I think she should be known as Queen Consort, just as the wives of every other King is Queen Consort. But won't Charles also be the Duke of Lancaster? In that case, is it possible that Camilla could be known as the Duchess of Lancaster?
My understanding is that the monarch is the only one with the title and it is just the title of Duke of Lancaster. So, The Queen is not the Duchess of Lancaster she is the Duke of Lancaster.

The Duke of Montpelier
Reply With Quote
  #1356  
Old 02-01-2014, 09:57 PM
DukeofMontpelier's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Putney, United States
Posts: 105
I as a person who loved Diana feel that Camilla should be Queen Consort. If they want to create a title that is solely the title of the spouse of the Monarch then I am OK with that. For instance if they use the title of the Duke of Windsor. That away the female monarch does not have a king as her Consort which makes it confusing to some. The spouse would be His/Her Majasty; The Prince/Princess, The Duke or Duchess of Windsor. I say let's make it more on that then a referendum on Camilla and the marriage. They are happy and his and her kids are happy. God save them both.

The Duke of Montpelier
Reply With Quote
  #1357  
Old 02-01-2014, 09:59 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: katonah, United States
Posts: 2,582
Quote:
Originally Posted by sthreats View Post
Because she was in love...
And because the relationship needed to be regularized well before QEII died. Otherwise there would have been an outright rebellion if Charles had inherited and said my hated mistress will be moving into Buck House forthwith.
Reply With Quote
  #1358  
Old 02-01-2014, 10:01 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: katonah, United States
Posts: 2,582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post
How can the legality of the marriage be challenged? That doesn't make sense to me.
Because any member of the Royal Family is specifically forbidden from having a secular marriage ceremony as Charles an Camilla did, as I am sure most here know.
Reply With Quote
  #1359  
Old 02-01-2014, 10:05 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Top End, Australia
Posts: 517
Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter View Post
Because any member of the Royal Family is specifically forbidden from having a secular marriage ceremony as Charles an Camilla did, as I am sure most here know.

Could you cite your source please?
Reply With Quote
  #1360  
Old 02-01-2014, 10:15 PM
Royal_Royal's Avatar
Gentry
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: City, Denmark
Posts: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter View Post
And because the relationship needed to be regularized well before QEII died. Otherwise there would have been an outright rebellion if Charles had inherited and said my hated mistress will be moving into Buck House forthwith.
Well, she certainly was his mistress when he was married to Diana. But The Prince of Wales was not married from 1996 to 2005, so I think it's very disrespectful and ill-mannered to refer to her as his mistress during this period of time or during an imaginary period of time - as the scenario you described.

I don't thinks it's difficult to show a bit of respect for a fellow human being. After all, we all committ mistakes during our lives. Only God is perfect.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
british, camilla, charles iii, charles of wales, coronation, crown jewels, duchess of cornwall, legacy, prince charles, prince of wales, queen camilla, titles, william v


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Monarchy in Greece Fireweaver The Royal Family of Greece 309 10-31-2016 06:54 PM
Monarchy vs Republic marian Royalty Past, Present, and Future 392 10-16-2016 10:14 AM
The Monarchy after Elizabeth II ysbel British Royals 311 12-29-2012 04:36 PM
The Monarchy And The Media Alexandria Royal House of Norway 12 04-08-2004 05:06 PM




Popular Tags
90th birthday of queen elizabeth ii ascot 2016 best gown best gown september 2016 best hat best outfit best summer outfit 2016 catherine middleton style coup d'etat crown prince haakon crown princess mary crown princess mary fashion crown princess mette-marit current events duchess of cambridge e-mail fashion fashion poll grand duke jean greece hereditary grand duchess stéphanie kate middleton king abdullah ii king felipe king felipe vi king willem-alexander member introduction monarchy new zealand nobel gala norway november 2016 october 2016 opening of parliament picture of the week prince bernhard prince charles princess marie princess mary princess mary daytime fashion princess mary fashion princess mary hats princess sofia and alexander queen letizia queen letizia casual outfits queen letizia daytime fashion queen letizia fashion queen letizia style queen mathilde queen mathildes outfits queen maxima queen maxima casual wear queen maxima daytime fashion queen maxima fashion queen maxima hats queen maxima style queen rania queen rania casual outfit royal fashion september 2016 sheikha moza state visit state visit to denmark succession sweden the duchess of cambridge the duchess of cambridge casual wear the duchess of cambridge daytime fashion the duchess of cambridge fashion the duchess of cambridge hats


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:39 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2016
Jelsoft Enterprises