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  #1221  
Old 07-08-2013, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
First off there would need to be some form of agreement on the type of republic and that won't be easy to get agreement on - the republicans have always been split on the model.
Silly question.
There are different types of republics possible?
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  #1222  
Old 07-08-2013, 11:47 AM
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Silly question.
There are different types of republics possible?
Yes, The U.S, India and France all have different forms of a Republic type of Government.
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  #1223  
Old 07-08-2013, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Our History, our culture, our links to the past, having someone who is well known on the world stage, having someone who can't be part of our political process (even though her representative is in the same way that she is in the UK) - there are other reasons of course.
But the main reason these realms have the same monarchy as the UK is because they were invaded by the British, and the people in many cases were either subjugated or otherwise sidelined by the British. I personally would just have thought that in this day and age countries would want to run themselves instead of being reigned over (I realise HMQ is largely just a figurehead) by a monarch who lives primarily on the other side of the world, particularly so for countries as powerful as Canada and Australia.
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  #1224  
Old 07-08-2013, 01:06 PM
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But the main reason these realms have the same monarchy as the UK is because they were invaded by the British, and the people in many cases were either subjugated or otherwise sidelined by the British. I personally would just have thought that in this day and age countries would want to run themselves instead of being reigned over (I realise HMQ is largely just a figurehead) by a monarch who lives primarily on the other side of the world, particularly so for countries as powerful as Canada and Australia.
So far we do not seem to be having a major problem with it but I am sure if we ever do we will let you know. As a former Canadian PM said on the subject "If it ain't broken, why try and fix it".
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  #1225  
Old 07-08-2013, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by royal-blue View Post
Can you imagine if the king of Spain still ruled all the Hispanophone nations!
As someone from South America, who have friends in Argentina and Uruguay, and who travelled around the continent, I know some people from Hispanophone countries who would prefer King Juan Carlos over the awful lot of caudilhos like Chávez, Kirchner and Morales.
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  #1226  
Old 07-08-2013, 01:18 PM
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But the main reason these realms have the same monarchy as the UK is because they were invaded by the British, and the people in many cases were either subjugated or otherwise sidelined by the British. I personally would just have thought that in this day and age countries would want to run themselves instead of being reigned over (I realise HMQ is largely just a figurehead) by a monarch who lives primarily on the other side of the world, particularly so for countries as powerful as Canada and Australia.
I can understand what you're saying for the vast majority of the Realms, although I think as the realms essentially do run themselves, with a Governor-General being appointed to fill HM's symbolic role.

For those (formerly) subjugated peoples, I would think that remaining as a realm gives them the advantage of having a very well known head of state when they would otherwise be looked over. One of the advantages of being in the Commonwealth (which does not require being a Realm) is that it gives smaller and even medium sized states a voice on a global scale, where they would otherwise be drowned out by large powers.

For states like Canada and Australia, while ours is a history of subjugation - and I wouldn't be surprised if a good number of Aboriginals support republican movements based on that history alone - the majority of the people living in Canada are not descendants of the subjugated but rather the oppressors. As of 2001, the majority of people in Canada described themselves as either being ethnically North American (non-aboriginal) or from the British Isles. It makes sense then that we would want to continue a relationship with our historic monarch.
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  #1227  
Old 07-08-2013, 01:28 PM
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I'm curious to see if Charles will use his (probably not that long) reign to reform the monarchy.
Only have close family members working for the Royal House, only having a London base and one country house, making abdications possible, reducing costs, the monarch not as the head of the church of England anymore, more countries of the Commonwealth becoming indepent states,...

That could be his legacy, being the monarchyreforming king.
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  #1228  
Old 07-08-2013, 01:48 PM
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[QUOTE=cdm;1572790]I'm curious to see if Charles will use his (probably not that long) reign to reform the monarchy.
Only have close family members working for the Royal House, only having a London base and one country house, making abdications possible, reducing costs, the monarch not as the head of the church of England anymore, more countries of the Commonwealth becoming indepent states,...

That could be his legacy, being the monarchyreforming king.[/QUOTE
Well the monarch only has one London home (BP) already.
Windsor and Holyrood, like BP, belong to the state so it makes sense for the monarch to continue to live in them. I doubt Charles would sell Sandringham or Balmoral which would be his private properties unless there was some financial need to do so.
As far as costs go the monarchy seems to be about the most cost conscious and cost effective part of the entire government.
Abdications are already possible in the UK. No one can stop a monarch from abdicating if that is their wish, it just is not part of our tradition.
Only Parliament can remove the monarch as Supreme Governor of the Church of England and so far no government has been tempted to disestablish the CofE, remove the monarchs titular role or remove the CofE Bishops from the House of Lords.
Any of the realms that eventually become republics will do so because they want to and not because Charles wanted them to, he will have no say in the matter at all. Also the Commonwealth nations, both the republics and the realms, are already independent states and function as such on the international stage.
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  #1229  
Old 07-08-2013, 02:01 PM
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Well then I'm curious if the Church or some nations of the Commonwealth will take some intiative to change things when Charles is king.

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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
Abdications are already possible in the UK. No one can stop a monarch from abdicating if that is their wish, it just is not part of our tradition.
.
Are your sure? Around the time that Beatrix announced her abdication, I read in a newspaper that a British monarch cannot abdicate onces (s)he is coronated. Don't know which newspaper it was.
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  #1230  
Old 07-08-2013, 02:08 PM
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Yes, a British monarch could abdicate at any time, even after they have been crowned, if they chose to. Parliaments would then just have to pass the relevent legislation as was done for Edward VIII. We do not force our monarchs to stay on the throne if they do not want to, it just is not part of our tradition for them to abdicate. Our tradition is "The king is dead, long live the King."
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  #1231  
Old 07-08-2013, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by cdm View Post
I'm curious to see if Charles will use his (probably not that long) reign to reform the monarchy.
Only have close family members working for the Royal House, only having a London base and one country house, making abdications possible, reducing costs, the monarch not as the head of the church of England anymore, more countries of the Commonwealth becoming indepent states,...

That could be his legacy, being the monarchyreforming king.
What do you think he would reform?
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  #1232  
Old 07-08-2013, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by SLV View Post
Silly question.
There are different types of republics possible?
I think the last time Australia went to vote on whether or not to become a republic they were asked to vote on whether to remain a monarchy or to become a republic with a President voted and choosen by Parliament. Whilst most people voted to remain a monarchy it was interpreted by some as a vote against letting politians choose a head of state rather than keeping the Queen as such.
A republic could be made up of a President and a Prime Minister like France, a President acting pretty much alone such as in America or a President largely symbolic who could be chosen by public vote or chosen by Parliament.
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  #1233  
Old 07-08-2013, 03:57 PM
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I think, like all things, we will have to wait until that time comes. I have learned never to say never, as each circumstances dictates a different outcome. I am sure that the nations involved will make a wise choice for themselves.
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  #1234  
Old 07-08-2013, 04:03 PM
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I think the last time Australia went to vote on whether or not to become a republic they were asked to vote on whether to remain a monarchy or to become a republic with a President voted and choosen by Parliament. Whilst most people voted to remain a monarchy it was interpreted by some as a vote against letting politians choose a head of state rather than keeping the Queen as such.
A republic could be made up of a President and a Prime Minister like France, a President acting pretty much alone such as in America or a President largely symbolic who could be chosen by public vote or chosen by Parliament.
Since peoples are getting PC about England, U.K I wanted to say that It is not 'America' it is Called The United State. America is a continent which consist a large area if Land in the Western Hemisphere which the U.S (a country) is located in.
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  #1235  
Old 07-08-2013, 04:12 PM
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Since peoples are getting PC about England, U.K I wanted to say that It is not 'America' it is Called The United State. America is a continent which consist a large area if Land in the Western Hemisphere which the U.S (a country) is located in.
I wonder if Kate Smith knew that when she used to belt out "God Bless America" cause I am pretty sure she wasn't including Canada or Mexico. Do the Boy Scouts of America know that they should be renamed the Boy Scouts of the US of A?
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  #1236  
Old 07-08-2013, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by BritishRoyalist View Post

Since peoples are getting PC about England, U.K I wanted to say that It is not 'America' it is Called The United State. America is a continent which consist a large area if Land in the Western Hemisphere which the U.S (a country) is located in.
As someone who lives in North America but not the United States, I can assure you America means the US. It is the United States of America, and other countries within the Americas (North and South) don't typically consider themselves to be from America.

As for the England vs. UK debate, there is a huge difference. Calling Elizabeth the Queen of England excludes Scotland, North Ireland, or Wales. England is just one kingdom within one of HM's realms.
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Old 07-08-2013, 05:43 PM
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Since peoples are getting PC about England, U.K I wanted to say that It is not 'America' it is Called The United State. America is a continent which consist a large area if Land in the Western Hemisphere which the U.S (a country) is located in.
I agree, though I try to NOT use "America," there are times that I am stymied. And I do rework the verbiage on most of my posts (imagine what it would be like if I did not )

You are technically correct, though there is so much "America" in the idiom of the language that it is difficult to parse.
America the Beautiful, Made in America, Coming to America, Living in America... etc. And I am OFF TOPIC, again. No pudding for me, tonight.

"The States" works fairly well - except that trods on the feet of too many other counties as well.

And we are part of North America and there are South and Central America as well.
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  #1238  
Old 07-08-2013, 05:54 PM
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I agree, though I try to NOT use "America," there are times that I am stymied. And I do rework the verbiage on most of my posts (imagine what it would be like if I did not )

You are technically correct, though there is so much "America" in the idiom of the language that it is difficult to parse.
America the Beautiful, Made in America, Coming to America, Living in America... etc. And I am OFF TOPIC, again. No pudding for me, tonight.

"The States" works fairly well - except that trods on the feet of too many other counties as well.

And we are part of North America and there are South and Central America as well.
Some Brazilian textbooks and scholars are now using the "estadunidense" (seems that there's no equivalent term in english) to describe people and thing from the United States (Estados Unidos, in portuguese).

They think that an "american" can be someone from Brazil, Canada, Mexico or any other country in American continent. And I agree with them.
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Old 07-08-2013, 06:14 PM
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The textbooks I use use America to mean the USA while all other countries in the Americas get their own name.
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Old 07-08-2013, 06:20 PM
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The textbooks I use use America to mean the USA while all other countries in the Americas get their own name.
Which should not be right, IMHO. It is another ugly American (see even that idiom does it) thing. Obviously, though, I need a bracelet that sends a shock every time I abuse the use of AMERICA.
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