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  #901  
Old 01-20-2012, 05:04 PM
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Corazon, there is no such title as "Princess Consort". It would have had to be created in order for Camilla to use it. When Charles becomes King, Camilla will be Queen Consort. The Queen Mother was also Queen Consort. (Queen Elizabeth is Queen Regnant.)
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  #902  
Old 01-20-2012, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by cinrit View Post
Corazon, there is no such title as "Princess Consort". It would have had to be created in order for Camilla to use it. When Charles becomes King, Camilla will be Queen Consort. The Queen Mother was also Queen Consort. (Queen Elizabeth is Queen Regnant.)
It has existed outside of the UK though. If it was needed, it would be created.
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  #903  
Old 01-20-2012, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by cinrit View Post
Corazon, there is no such title as "Princess Consort". It would have had to be created in order for Camilla to use it. When Charles becomes King, Camilla will be Queen Consort. The Queen Mother was also Queen Consort. (Queen Elizabeth is Queen Regnant.)
this don't is my word, the palace said this when charles and camilla in the day of they engagement.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4252795.stm
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  #904  
Old 01-21-2012, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by corazon View Post
this don't is my word, the palace said this when charles and camilla in the day of they engagement.
BBC NEWS | UK | Prince Charles to marry Camilla
Actually, the BBC left out a couple of words. The official word from Clarence House was that "it is intended" that she would be known as Princess Consort when Charles becomes King. A sort of testing of the waters. They never declared positively she would be known as such. We'll see what happens when it comes time ....
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  #905  
Old 01-21-2012, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
It has existed outside of the UK though. If it was needed, it would be created.
yes thats right, the Morocco King's wife is Princess Consort. it will be not a problem at all to create this title when Charles is King.
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  #906  
Old 01-21-2012, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by kathia_sophia View Post
yes thats right, the Morocco King's wife is Princess Consort. it will be not a problem at all to create this title when Charles is King.
It will be a huge problem to create this title as first parliament will have to strip her of her Queen consort title. ONLY parliament can do that, then she can be given a different title. It's not like now when Camilla holds many titles and can be known by any of them. A Queen can only hold that title no other. Morocco is a different case since a King's wife has never been a queen.
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  #907  
Old 01-21-2012, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Charlotte1 View Post
It will be a huge problem to create this title as first parliament will have to strip her of her Queen consort title. ONLY parliament can do that, then she can be given a different title. It's not like now when Camilla holds many titles and can be known by any of them. A Queen can only hold that title no other. Morocco is a different case since a King's wife has never been a queen.
This discussion should probably move over to the Charles and Camilla section, but in the meantime ... wouldn't it be the same case as the changing of primogeniture which recently came up, where each Commonwealth country would have to approve before it became law?
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  #908  
Old 01-21-2012, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by cinrit View Post
This discussion should probably move over to the Charles and Camilla section, but in the meantime ... wouldn't it be the same case as the changing of primogeniture which recently came up, where each Commonwealth country would have to approve before it became law?
I'm sure Zonk will move the discussion to the appropriate thread...she's good about that kinda thing.

I believe that in order to have a title other than Queen, it will take legislation and yes it would have to go to all commonwealth parliaments too I believe. With Camilla being styled as the Duchess of Cornwall, that was no problem as Charles does hold the title Duke of Cornwall. When he ascends the throne though, he'll have no other title other than King which has the feminine counterpart of Queen. In the UK the wives take on the titles and styles of their husbands.
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  #909  
Old 01-21-2012, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Charlotte1 View Post
It will be a huge problem to create this title as first parliament will have to strip her of her Queen consort title. ONLY parliament can do that, then she can be given a different title. It's not like now when Camilla holds many titles and can be known by any of them. A Queen can only hold that title no other. Morocco is a different case since a King's wife has never been a queen.
yeah, parliament have the last word abuot this, no the queen, no charles no camilla. like the law about william's hair. the queen agreed about chane te law and william's firts baby become in queen or king. but the parliament have the last word.
anyway, we have to wait to the moment and see what happend, until charles become kinf if chjarls become king we never know what can happend in life. 20 year ago nobody can say that diana or margaret will die before the queen mother for example. we can wait.
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Today the world has embraced new royal Princesses in the form of Mary of Denmark and Maxima of the Netherlands. But it's questionable whether even these hugely popular, increasingly glamorous future Queens will ever capture the world's imagination in the same way as Diana.
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  #910  
Old 01-21-2012, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by kathia_sophia View Post
yes thats right, the Morocco King's wife is Princess Consort. it will be not a problem at all to create this title when Charles is King.
There is a slightly different perception of the word equality and its meaning in real life between Marocco and the UK. I am not convinced there ever was a queen in Morocco while in the UK there has never been anything but a queen when the lady in question was the wife of the king.
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  #911  
Old 01-21-2012, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I'm sure Zonk will move the discussion to the appropriate thread...she's good about that kinda thing.
Sorry ... that was just my way of acknowledging that I was continuing an off-topic discussion.
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  #912  
Old 01-21-2012, 12:30 PM
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I sincerely hope that by the time Charles becomes King that Camilla will be accepted as Queen Consort.
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  #913  
Old 01-21-2012, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by cinrit View Post
Sorry ... that was just my way of acknowledging that I was continuing an off-topic discussion.
Nothing to be sorry about... I just had to throw in a word or two in appreciation of our own wonderful Zonk.

There's another thing about the Princess Consort title I am wondering about. Along with having to pass the legislation for her to use Princess Consort (and therefore making it a morganic marriage), wouldn't Charles then have to make Camilla a Princess of the UK in her own right in order to be called Princess Consort? I don't think that's ever been done before for someone marrying into the BRF other than the DoE and it just plainly sounds like a whole lot of red tape to go through to assauge those that still harbor ill feelings.

Seems to me the most logical solution that they will take is simply announce that Camilla will be Queen Consort.
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  #914  
Old 01-21-2012, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by kakieanne View Post
I sincerely hope that by the time Charles becomes King that Camilla will be accepted as Queen Consort.
I not, but of course I respect your opinion.

if camilla will become queen why it does not say when Charles becomes king she be queen as the law and say that will be Princess Consort and then said something else? is not that lying?
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Today the world has embraced new royal Princesses in the form of Mary of Denmark and Maxima of the Netherlands. But it's questionable whether even these hugely popular, increasingly glamorous future Queens will ever capture the world's imagination in the same way as Diana.
As Mario acknowledges: "She really was a true Princess".
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  #915  
Old 01-21-2012, 01:42 PM
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I sincerely hope that by the time Charles becomes King that Camilla will be accepted as Queen Consort.
I think so, though it may not be that far off in the future as people imagine. I am acutely aware of the Queen's personal position. If she has successfully embedded herself in a support system of daughter and daughters-in-law and grandchildren, then that may off-set what is looming - the death of Prince Philip.

I've mentioned this before - keeping in mind that life and death can never be predicted - couples who have lived their lives entwined as long as these two, have deep connections. With the death of one the other would not be far behind, especially at their ages. The left behind does not have the life forces to withstand the shock and at these ages would (often times) begin to fail fast. This is what I have observed with older couples like the Queen and Philip. In fact, with Philip's current situation I would not be surprised if the Queen is beginning to manifest a more pronounced decline herself (to her intimate circle).

With Philip's exit - and there will come a point when he will not 'be there' for her even in life (he may not be already) - the Queen will have lost her last personal support from the past. Her mother and sister are also gone - she alone remains of her generational family. If this were any other couple with this history of working together, I would say that with Philip's passing, the Queen would shortly follow. However, there are key elements that I am not privy to, so my surmise cannot be taken seriously - of course.

Just like in the lives of infants, weeks and months and a year or two have far more significance (the difference 3 years can make between a one year old and a four year old), the same starts to hold for the very old. Three years is huge and the progression of aging begins to speed up as the physical systems - and the will - begin to fail and flag. That is what is beginning with Philip - that is what I see in pictures of Philip - it has been evident for quite some time, actually. (When I saw the 'officiall' couple picture taken last year with the Queen and Philip for the Jubilee Year - I flashed that they - doctors, family - knew that they had to photograph back then rather than later because the awareness is there that he is failing fast. I can't look at those pictures and not be aware of how close he is to passing. The Christmas event was likely not a surprise to his doctors. Three years would be a gift. A year is possible.)

Anyway, my point is, the reality of a death - and watching Charles and Camilla step up to the plate more and more - I really hope that with a death of a regent there would not be a repeat of the disturbed public life in England the observing public from elsewhere was forced to watch so many years ago. Enough is enough in so many ways - and watching the continuing hatreds unspool endlessly around Charles and Camilla - having the temper tantrums of a few foot-stomping for continued 'revenge' govern the sane progression of life moving on - should not be allowed, as much as anyone has power over these things.

In the sadness of death - first Philip, then the Queen - which may not be that far away as people suppose - I really wonder that some people would take the event as an opportunity to yet again vent the animosities of a long ago time. What disrespect to the memory of a Queen that so many purport to love and respect in life, as we speak.

I would hope that Charles ascending the throne would be respectful, and that Camilla would be respected. That would be the greatest act of respect for the current Queen it would seem to me. In fact, she might be able to forestall some unpleasantness if the Queen makes it known what her wishes are regarding Camilla's title. Wouldn't that be a gift to her son. She really should consider it. Hope she does do some gesture to steady the succession. Maybe mention in a formal speech about 'the next King and Queen' - that would be generous (though perhaps doing so would bring out the haters and start it all up when it need not yet be an issue).

LATER: I am ambivalent about this post and came on to delete it but then waffled. I don't think its particularly 'nice' to talk about the death of someone - but my gut feeling is that it is looming at least for one individual (after a long and fruitful life) and will have ripple effects that will impact Charles (as much as the Queen). However, if a moderator thinks its a post that needs amending or deleting, I would understand. Thank you.
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  #916  
Old 01-21-2012, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by corazon View Post
I not, but of course I respect your opinion.

if camilla will become queen why it does not say when Charles becomes king she be queen as the law and say that will be Princess Consort and then said something else? is not that lying?
When Charles married Camilla, the Princess Consort statement was I believe meant to appease certain followers of the monarchy. It was basically something to get people to like Camilla, or accept her. Charles would have known or been told that Camilla will become his Queen Consort when he ascends the throne. It's not lying, it's playing the game.
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  #917  
Old 01-21-2012, 04:04 PM
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It's not lying, it's playing the game.
Though no matter which way you look at it, there appears likely to be a degree of orchestrated duplicity about it. Playing the PR game though? Certainly.

As with all things, the situation will become clearer in time.
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  #918  
Old 01-21-2012, 05:12 PM
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At the time the annoucement was an 'intention' which can change.

I intended on retiring this year when I started work and told everyone that. The fact that I am unable to do so means that my intention to retire this year won't happen. Does that mean that I lied to people when I made that intention plain? No - it means that circumstances do change.

It is the same with Camilla. If The Queen had died shortly after Camilla became Charles' wife - that is, if Charles had been King now for say 5 years I suspect that Camilla would be The Princess Consort but...the more years pass and as she is seen as the supportive wife of the heir to the throne then the likelihood of the relevant parliaments passing the legislation to strip her of the title of Queen will reduce.

NB It won't take all the parliaments of the Commonwealth but only the 16 nations that have The Queen as Head of State. The other 38 nations of the Commonwealth won't have to do anything as it won't affect them - as they are republics or have their own monarchies.

At the time of the wedding the question about Camilla's titles was raised in parliament and it was known then that parliament would have to pass legislation to strip Camilla of the title. I could see that decision going to the Human Rights Court as well - as it would be a decision saying that she is not the equal of her husband or the equal of any other woman in the land.

In addition Camilla instantly becomes Queen Consort the moment the Queen dies. Parliament also technically ceases to exist until reconfirmed by the new monarch - the reason why the Accession Council is held so soon after the death - to have the PM and other politicians take their oaths to the new monarch (usually happens within hours). Parliament then usually doesn't sit until after the funeral, out of respect for the dead monarch. That will take place 10 days or so after her death. That means that Camilla would go to The Queen's funeral as Queen Consort and then parliament has to draft the legislation and have it pass as well as have it pass the different parliaments - and met the different laws of those lands with regard to the rights of women and their titles on marriage.

Tyger I am with you about how older people often pass away within a short time of each other.

As for the Queen being the last of her generation within the family - not quite. As far as grandchildren of George V is concerned she is certainly not the last - she has 4 first cousins still living - they are the same generation as her. As for first cousins on her mother's side there are still at least 4 living. Philip also still has first cousins living e.g. the Mountbatten sisters for 2 plus Prince Michael of Greece and Denmark - who according to my research is still alive.
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Old 01-21-2012, 05:21 PM
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Tyger I am with you about how older people often pass away within a short time of each other.

As for the Queen being the last of her generation within the family - not quite. As far as grandchildren of George V is concerned she is certainly not the last - she has 4 first cousins still living - they are the same generation as her. As for first cousins on her mother's side there are still at least 4 living. Philip also still has first cousins living e.g. the Mountbatten sisters for 2 plus Prince Michael of Greece and Denmark - who according to my research is still alive.
What I meant was her immediate family - the ones around her - the ones that would show up at Balmoral for the summer and be on the Britannica (when it was), and Sandringham etc. Unless they do? Do the extended family - cousins and what all show up at holiday time? Her mother was a confidant, I understand. I thought that circle surrounding her has diminished - and with Philip passing - she will have none of the 'old crowd' about her who share her experience of the past, intimate history. Significant moment for an older person. Her daughters-in-law and grandchildren will be very important to her. I suspect Camilla is important for the Queen in that she shares a common situation in that way, is of that time of life that is similar to the Queen's.
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Old 01-22-2012, 01:45 AM
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Actually she has had her cousins around her for most of her life. They used to even do Christmas together at Windsor and they still do lots of things together - we just don't hear about those occasions as they are private ones. She can share with them as they are the ones who can understand the most. Philip's Mountbatten cousins are also regular visitors - even just last week some of his German cousins were at Sandringham with them.
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