The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #2861  
Old 01-18-2017, 08:56 AM
Osipi's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 9,660
A simple search put me to the website of the (gasp) Daily Mail Online which ran an article about William's smoking back when he was 19 and in his gap year. I don't believe though that William ever developed a strong habit of smoking though or we'd not be questioning his smoking habit.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...el-smoker.html
__________________

__________________
“In my walks, every man I meet is my superior in some way, and in that I learn from him.”
~~~Ralph Waldo Emerson~~~
Reply With Quote
  #2862  
Old 01-18-2017, 09:37 AM
Skippyboo's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Atlanta, United States
Posts: 4,108
A 16 year old article from the Daily Mail which is hardly known for their journalistic accuracy is not much prove of anything. The lack of photos is more believable case that he isn't a smoker.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2863  
Old 01-18-2017, 09:48 AM
Marty91charmed's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Near Verona and Venice, Italy
Posts: 6,074
What is the problem/thing with smoking and the "monarchy under Charles"? Again, i don't get it.
__________________
"Yet, walking free upon her own estate
Still,in her solitude, she is the Queen".
Reply With Quote
  #2864  
Old 01-18-2017, 09:58 AM
Osipi's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 9,660
You're absolutely correct and it has nothing to do with the topic. Like a lot of us, I find it easy to get sidetracked and go off on tangents. My apologies.

We now return you to our regularly scheduled discussion on the Monarchy under Charles.
__________________
“In my walks, every man I meet is my superior in some way, and in that I learn from him.”
~~~Ralph Waldo Emerson~~~
Reply With Quote
  #2865  
Old 01-18-2017, 10:13 AM
Osipi's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 9,660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
To me it is a bit unhealthy when a modern, innovative "global Britain" (the new pet word of Mrs May) clings to a possibly101-years old head of state whom started her immensely long Reign when Sir Winston Churchill was the Prime Minister.... We are not talking about a head of state with executive powers like the presidents of France, Russia or the United States. We are talking about a ceremonial head of state. On itself it should be no problem to give way to a successor. If even a Pope can retire, so can a Queen. I understand the desire for a long, longer, longest reign of a beloved Queen we all have expierenced as long as we live on this globe, but I feel somewhere common sense should prevail too. If a 101 years old gerontocrat can hold the "reins of state" this is at the same time also giving the message: anyone can do this "job".
If there is anyone in the position of head of state on this globe that has confronted, adapted and came to understand changing times, it would be HM, The Queen. Politicians, heads of state and diplomats from all over the globe have remarked at her uncanny ability to not only put them at ease in her presence but knows and understands the issues of the day, the tensions that surround the world and remark on how easily she can be a calming force, has the ability to draw out more information on certain subjects without seeming to be political or having an opinion either way and always remembers her position as a constitutional monarch. It takes a level of wisdom, experience and demeanor to be able to do the job that she does so efficiently and thoroughly as the Queen does and maintain the level of respect that she gets from all corners of the world.

At almost 91 years old, she is as sharp as she always has been, is in remarkable health which I believe that is attributed to a healthy and active lifestyle and takes her "job" very seriously and does it to the best of her ability. I think that those in positions that are close to hers would be wise to study her tactics and her way of doing her job and follow her example.

I agree that the likes of a monarch such as Queen Elizabeth II will never been seen again or surpassed. She is truly iconic and the future King Charles III (if that is what he chooses) has learned from the very best.

To clarify my source for the statements that I've made concerning the remarks from various people in political and diplomatic service have made about HM and how they've found her to be, I draw my opinion from the book I'm currently reading which is Sally Bedell-Smith's "Elizabeth The Queen: The life of a modern monarch". Excellent read.
__________________
“In my walks, every man I meet is my superior in some way, and in that I learn from him.”
~~~Ralph Waldo Emerson~~~
Reply With Quote
  #2866  
Old 01-18-2017, 10:43 AM
ROYAL NORWAY's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: somewhere, United Kingdom, Norway
Posts: 3,100
Osipi, A very well written post as usual, and I agree with everything.
__________________
The Queen is the most wonderful, forgiving, non judgmental person I know. Sarah Ferguson speaking in 2011.
Reply With Quote
  #2867  
Old 01-18-2017, 11:09 AM
Skippyboo's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Atlanta, United States
Posts: 4,108
The Monarchy under Charles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty91charmed View Post
What is the problem/thing with smoking and the "monarchy under Charles"? Again, i don't get it.

It was brought up in a discussion about length of reign comparison be Victoria/Bertie/George and Elizabeth/Charles/William. A poster stated since William is a smoker and a drinker thus must be less healthy than his father. That started the questioning about William smoking since unlike Harry it isn't a proven thing.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2868  
Old 01-18-2017, 12:25 PM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 7,288
Anyway, we all want to be prudent and gentlemanlike and we all wish anyone a long life in great health. At the same time this wish can mean that the new King will start his reign beyond retirement age. And as we all attribute a healthy and ascetic lifestyle plus the longevity DNA of both his parents to him, then the chance is there that also Charles' succesor William will assume the kingship around retirement age, himself possibly a proud grandfather of the children of Prince George and Princess Charlotte...

In times past people in general did not reach such advanced ages. Kings -if not fallen on the battlefield or hit with sickness or accident- already became older than their subjects thanks to beter nutrition, housing and care, compared with their subjects.

Sometimes it is wise to see realities under the eye and adapt to it. What is the point of a 90-years old head-of-state on her way to a centennial? Divine predestination? Pope Benedictus XVI has shown that, as first Pope in centuries, one can lay down an office with grace, to retreat and make room for a successor. In the meantime the retired monarchs of our time have enjoyed a long and happy "life after" and I wish the same to any person advancing to a very old age.

Queen Wilhelmina lived 15 more years under the Reign of her daughter Juliana. Grand-Duchess Charlotte of Luxembourg lived 21 more years under the Reign of her son Jean. Queen Juliana lived 24 more years under the Reign of her daughter Beatrix. Grand-Duke Jean lives now 17 years under the Reign of his son Henri. In two months Queen Beatrix will already start her 5th year under the Reign of her son Willem-Alexander.

All these persons abdicated around their seventies. All of them enjoyed (enjoy) a great "life after". Imagine that Queen Elizabeth would now live in the 20th year of her son Charles' Reign...
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2869  
Old 01-18-2017, 12:58 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 9,660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
What is the point of a 90-years old head-of-state on her way to a centennial?
The point is that she does the job relentlessly and methodically with years of wisdom, experience and a keen sense of the people she meets behind her. She's *the* mistress of diplomacy. Simple.
__________________
“In my walks, every man I meet is my superior in some way, and in that I learn from him.”
~~~Ralph Waldo Emerson~~~
Reply With Quote
  #2870  
Old 01-18-2017, 01:11 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: *******, Canada
Posts: 5,969
Regardless of whether people want to sneer and laugh, EII was anointed and believes she is Queen by the grace of God.

She took an oath and truly believes there is no authority on earth to absolve her of that oath.

Just as Charles and William will do when their times come.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2871  
Old 01-18-2017, 01:46 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Tennessee, United States
Posts: 299
I wouldn't be surprised if, eventually, the BRF softens to the idea of abdication as a form of retirement. But it surely isn't going to be this monarch or the next who will do that first. Elizabeth has made it very clear she does not consider that any sort of option, Charles has given every indication that he also views the position as a duty that only ends with death. I do wonder, however, if William might be more inclined to consider it as an option.

For one thing, by the time he gets to that age, he'll have witnessed quite a few peaceful, "retirement-"style abdications on the continent. But more than that, he's started his adulthood by taking a different course from his predecessors. So far he's gone farther than his father or grandmother ever did in carving out a chance to lead a life of his own choosing before fully committing to royal duties; he's has stood pretty resolute in that choice regardless of outside criticism. Given his inclinations now, I can't help but think he might at least find it somewhat attractive to consider eventually handing off the crown and letting the end of his life be his own, as well. That said, I would think what he witnesses in the last years of his grandmother's and father's times on the throne will likely affect how much he'd want to actually give into those sorts of urges. If continuing as monarch well into old age becomes a struggle for either QEII or Charles, I suspect abdication may start to seem like a common-sense choice to someone like William. If they are able to keep working at a high level of involvement up until the end, or if he sees them take joy in the position into their last years, that may give him the strength to follow in their footsteps and continue the tradition of holding the throne until death. But my gut feeling is that he's the first potential change agent on this matter that the BRF has seen in a long time, if ever.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2872  
Old 01-18-2017, 01:54 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 9,660
Personally, and this is just my opinion, I think that both Charles and William with having spent years watching and learning from the present Queen, will adhere to the tenets and beliefs and the sense of duty that she does when it comes to being the monarch. I firmly believe that the UK will abolish the monarchy and become a republic before we see any monarch of the UK abdicate.

That's just me though. Unfortunately, most likely I will not be around to see if my opinion is on the money or not and my opinion is based on the way things are right now. Anything can happen and my crystal ball is in the shop.
__________________
“In my walks, every man I meet is my superior in some way, and in that I learn from him.”
~~~Ralph Waldo Emerson~~~
Reply With Quote
  #2873  
Old 01-18-2017, 01:58 PM
Countessmeout's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: alberta, Canada
Posts: 6,933
Yes but William had that option. Unlike his grandmother and father who were first in line to the throne as minors, William in his thirties is still second in line. It has allowed him more freedom. It has put him more in line with his aunt and uncles who were able to pursue other things than dimple Royal life.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2874  
Old 01-18-2017, 02:15 PM
Skippyboo's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Atlanta, United States
Posts: 4,108
With the British throne tied to other countries, it's not that easy to just abdicate. It took a couple of years to pass succession to the crown act. It's not as simple as it was in 1936 anymore.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2875  
Old 01-18-2017, 02:20 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Tennessee, United States
Posts: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
With the British throne tied to other countries, it's not that easy to just abdicate. It took a couple of years to pass succession to the crown act. It's not as simple as it was in 1936 anymore.
Absolutely. If, if a future monarch were to decide he or she wants to take that course, it would require several years of legal preparation. That would certainly be a big task, but not an impossible one.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2876  
Old 01-18-2017, 03:07 PM
Excalibur's Avatar
Gentry
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Jacksonville, Florida, United States
Posts: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Personally, and this is just my opinion, I think that both Charles and William with having spent years watching and learning from the present Queen, will adhere to the tenets and beliefs and the sense of duty that she does when it comes to being the monarch. I firmly believe that the UK will abolish the monarchy and become a republic before we see any monarch of the UK abdicate.
Totally agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
Yes but William had that option. Unlike his grandmother and father who were first in line to the throne as minors, William in his thirties is still second in line. It has allowed him more freedom. It has put him more in line with his aunt and uncles who were able to pursue other things than dimple Royal life.
From what I have read about William's upbringing, including his Sunday teas with Granny, it is my opinion that William was granted this "freedom" while he was second in line -- with the understanding that once HM passes on, he is full-time for his lifetime. From Day 1, William's parents and grandparents have been preparing him for his destiny. They would have impressed upon him that it is a lifelong commitment, there is no "retirement". JMHO
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2877  
Old 01-18-2017, 05:43 PM
ROYAL NORWAY's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: somewhere, United Kingdom, Norway
Posts: 3,100
I've rewritten this long post since I last wrote it and added a number of new points to it. I know that this thread is about the monarchy under Charles and I think this post fits into the discussion (the mods can move it if they don't agree), but OMG, and for the thousandth time:

1 - Will the Queen abdicate? No she will not, as I and others have said several times before:

During the Coronation in 1953 she pledged to govern the countries where she is head of state - a promise which she said she would "perform and keep. So help me God."

The Coronation Oath, 2 June 1953:
https://www.royal.uk/coronation-oath-2-june-1953
Quote:
The things which I have here before promised, I will perform and keep. So help me God.
The Christmas Broadcast 2002:
https://www.royal.uk/christmas-broadcast-2002
Quote:
Fortified by this and the support you have given throughout the last twelve months which has meant so much to me, I look forward to the New Year, to facing the challenges and opportunities that lie ahead, and to continuing to serve you to the very best of my ability each and every day.
The Queen's Diamond Jubilee message:
https://www.royal.uk/queens-diamond-jubilee-message
Quote:
In this special year, as I dedicate myself anew to your service
Nocookies | The Australian
Quote:
In his recent memoir, former foreign minister Bob Carr provided insight into why. He related a conversation between the Queen and Australia’s outgoing high commissioner to London, the former South Australian premier Mike Rann, that touched on the abdication of Queen Beatrix of The Netherlands.“It’s not something we do here,’’ Elizabeth said.
Letter to The Times, published Wednesday 4th February 2015, from the Principal Private Secretary to TRH The Prince of Wales and the Duchess of Cornwall:
Our view
Quote:
His Royal Highness has always preferred not to comment on matters which relate to a future whose date is unknown, and would arise only after the death of his mother.
These are just some of the statements/evidence that show us that she will never abdicate. Former Prime Ministers, former staffers etc have said the same. And the fact that the Queen will never abdicate has nothing to do with Charles's popularity. She had not abdicated regardless of Charles being popular or not.

2 - Should the Queen abdicate? No she should not, as I and others have said several times before, becauce that would have been disastrous for the British monarchy and this is why:

As I've said before on others threads, The monarchies in the UK, Denmark and Norway remains popular, and some polls have shown record high support the last 5 years. This is not going to change unless we get some very very major scandals, which is unlikely.

Republicanism in the UK remains among the lowest in the world, with figures rarely exceeding 20% in support of a British republic, some polls have it as low 13%, and consistent 70/80% support for the continuation of the Monarchy.

To abolish the British monarchy will be very difficult.
1: Most polls must show a majority for a republic, this is very very unlikely.
2: Majority in the house of commons for a referendum, this is not going to happen.
3: Majority in the referendum for a republic, this is not going to happen.
4: Changing the country's name, changing the pound, remove the royal name from all state institutions. These are just some of the things that must be changed.
5: All of this is going to cost so much money that even many Republicans will start doubting it.
6: The vast majority of the british population will never vote to replace a constitutional monarchy with a divisive politician or a celebrity.

And it will be very difficult in Denmark and Norway (If Haakon stays away from trouble when he becomes king) too:
1: Most polls must show a majority for a republic, this is very very unlikely.
2: Majority in the parliaments for a referendum, this is not going to happen.
3: Majority in the referendum for a republic, this is not going to happen.

The Swedish monarchy is not so rooted in the people, like the ones I have mentioned above, but it will be very difficult to abolish it.

So all these monarchies (with the exception of Belgium and Spain) are safe for at least the next 100 years.

I think the same goes for the Netherlands (a monarchy I don't follow so much).

I don't think we will see a republic in Belgium either, and I hope that the Spanish monarchy will survive.

Abdications in the The Netherlands, Spain, Belgium, Vatican/Catholic Church, Japan and possibly, Denmark, Sweden and Norway - I will not include countries with a population of less than 1 million, with the exception of the Pope:

The Netherlands:
Abdication is a tradition there, it has taken place since 1948.

Spain:
Juan Carlos had repeatedly said that he would not abdicate, but because of his stupidity, he had no choice.

Belgium:
Albert was frail and did it for health reasons, but look how he have behaved towards his son after he abdicated.

Vatican/Catholic Church:
The pope is the head of state (in reality dictator) of the Vatican (which has a population of only 1,000 people). No problem to abdicate from this small role.

It is his role as Bishop of Rome and in that capacity, leader of the worldwide Catholic Church which is important. No problem to abdicate from this role either, since a whole bunch of other religious heads in the Christianity have done it before.

And Benedict XVI was a contrversial figure, but did it for health reasons. He had said at least 3 times that there could be a possibility for him to resign, and many of the experts were not surprised at all.

Japan:
Emperor Akihito has been wanting to abdicate for years, so it was no shock. The shocking-part was that the Imperial Household Agency and the government accepted it. But it will not hurt the Japanese monarchy.

Denmark and Sweden:
If Margrethe and Carl Gustaf decides to abdicate, they can do it without any problems and it will not hurt the monarchies.

Norway:
I used to say the same about the Norwegian situasjonen too, but Haakon/Mette-Marit has been in some trouble with the press/politicans lately, so it hadn't been wise for Harald to abdicate now.

But we can't compare these monarchies with the British monarchy.

As far as UK is concerned, I actually think it is the safest Monarchy in the world, along with the Japanese, but an abdication can destroy it, and this is why:

Even if the Queen's vow that her whole life would be devoted to service and her view on the coronation oath hadn't been so important to her as it is, she wouldn't have abdicated, and this is the reason. The Queen is head of state of 16 countries and is the head of the Commonwealth, if she decided to abdicate each country would have to pass a bill approving the abdication as the demise of the crown legislation only accounts for a monarch's death not abdication. When Edward VIII abdicated, the UK could perform the necessary paper work for the Dominions...it cannot now. It would be too much of a legal headache and open debate about the monarchy, and not forget the Commonwealth.

If the Queen had abdicated it would have created major problems for Charles and led to a fierce debate about the monarchy's future.

The republicans, the press (especially the mirror/guardian and of course the fail) had gone absolutely crazy and done everything in their power to dig up dirt about Charles.

It is better that Charles takes over when the Queen dies. It will go quietly without much debate, because people/media will be very occupied by the Queen's death. That will be a remarkable and very sad event.

The longer she reigns the better it is for Charles, in my opinion.

And why on earth should she abdicate at the age of almost 90. Had she wanted to abdicate, she would have done it long ago.

It is being busy that keeps The Queen in good health.

If she becomes too frail to carry out her constitutional duties, a regency will be created.
__________________
The Queen is the most wonderful, forgiving, non judgmental person I know. Sarah Ferguson speaking in 2011.
Reply With Quote
  #2878  
Old 01-18-2017, 05:43 PM
ROYAL NORWAY's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: somewhere, United Kingdom, Norway
Posts: 3,100
And read this very well written post by Ish:
The Monarchy under Charles


This was brilliantly written by EIIR (a former member here) in 2012:
Quote:
Originally Posted by EIIR View Post
When it comes to Charles acceding the throne I feel people miss the point. There is likely to be a huge outpouring of national grief when The Queen passes away. It's important not to underestimate how powerful that will be. Hundreds of thousands of people queued for days in order to file past the Queen Mother's coffin. The level of mourning for the Queen is likely to be a great deal deeper - the Queen is not only a much loved head of state, she's an international icon.

That national grief will, naturally, lead to a great deal of sympathy flowing to the RF generally, and Charles as the next in line.

There will also be a certain fascination in having a new monarch - the vast majority of Britons have only ever known one monarch. The process of new stamps, notes, coins, not to mention a coronation to look forward to. There's also the fact that Charles' reign is likely to be relatively short and William and Catherine will be closer to the throne while also having their own children who will, no doubt, fascinate us all in much the same way their parents have.

This is all a rather long winded way of saying I really don't believe that there will be any significant change to the British monarchy when Charles takes over. I think Charles will be a surprisingly popular King; he'll be at the 'sweet old man' age rather then in middle aged no mans land. It's an unfortunate fact of life nowadays; we see the young as interesting and cool, and the elderly as sweet and wise. It's the in between stage where people just aren't that interested.
__________________
The Queen is the most wonderful, forgiving, non judgmental person I know. Sarah Ferguson speaking in 2011.
Reply With Quote
  #2879  
Old 01-18-2017, 11:58 PM
Ish's Avatar
Ish Ish is offline
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 3,406
Thank you, Royal Norway.

I actually read an article while in a check-out line today. Turns out the Queen is dying and told Will and Kate (who both reacted with tears of joy) over the holidays that she plans to abdicate hand the reigns over to them, because she wants to see William's coronation before she dies.

Best part! She has help in this. In order to convince Charles that he doesn't want the throne himself, she's turned to Camilla who's become disillusioned with the idea of becoming the King's wife. The pair of them have talked Charles into stepping aside.

It has to be true, because it was all told to the writer of the article by an unnamed source close to the couple, who is heavily quoted.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2880  
Old 01-19-2017, 12:35 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Chicago, United States
Posts: 1
Thank you for I read the same article today at the doctor's office waiting for my flu shot.........good read heh.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
british, camilla, charles iii, charles of wales, coronation, crown jewels, duchess of cornwall, legacy, prince charles, prince of wales, queen camilla, titles, william v


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (0 members and 2 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Monarchies & Republics: Future and Benefits marian Royalty Past, Present, and Future 417 12-01-2017 08:29 PM
The Monarchy after Elizabeth II ysbel British Royals 515 09-28-2017 10:22 PM
The Monarchy in Greece Fireweaver The Royal Family of Greece 309 10-31-2016 06:54 PM
The Monarchy And The Media Alexandria Royal House of Norway 12 04-08-2004 05:06 PM




Popular Tags
birthday british royal history carl gustaf chris o'neill crown princess mary crown princess victoria crown princess victoria hats current events denmark duchess of brabant duchess of cambridge earl of snowdon family general news grand duke henri hereditary grand duchess stéphanie hereditary grand duke guillaume infanta cristina infanta leonor infanta sofia iñaki urdangarín jewels king felipe king felipe vi king philippe king willem-alexander letizia liechtenstein lord snowdon love monarchy monarchy versus republic news official visit paris prince alexander prince carl philip prince daniel prince felix prince gabriel prince harry prince harry of wales prince nicholas prince oscar princess beatrice princess claire of luxembourg princess estelle princess leonore princess madeleine princess of asturias princess sofia princess victoria queen elizabeth ii queen letizia queen letizia casual outfits queen letizia daytime fashion queen letizia fashion queen mathilde queen maxima queen maxima casual wear queen silvia question soderberg spanish royal family state visit stephanie sweden swedish royal family victoria zog



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:01 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017
Jelsoft Enterprises