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  #2681  
Old 10-29-2016, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by duke of poliganc View Post
when u see the comments on the dm article u will see it's more aboat popularity more than the idea of slimming the working royals if you say instead of andrew that prince harry who is gonna be in prince andrew same shoes and his children will be treated the same way prince andrew and his daughters is being treated you gonna see a different response .

Well, yes, because Harry is beloved and Andrew is barely tolerated. And Fergie isn't even tolerated.

I've always thought the York girls are at a huge disadvantage, thanks to the antics of their parents. (Which will probably also impede their chances of marrying well).
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  #2682  
Old 10-29-2016, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
Well, yes, because Harry is beloved and Andrew is barely tolerated. And Fergie isn't even tolerated.

I've always thought the York girls are at a huge disadvantage, thanks to the antics of their parents. (Which will probably also impede their chances of marrying well).
if they gonna keep walking in that pass then it wont be that long before we see the british republic .
why pother with not that much popular head of state when u can choose a much popular one every 4 years or so .
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  #2683  
Old 10-29-2016, 10:48 PM
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The Queen sides with princesses in royal battle of the brothers | Daily Mail Online

Is it just me, or does it seem like the DM is contradicting itself. But I have always thought the queen has had sympathy for Beatrice and Eugenie since she was a York Princess as well.
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  #2684  
Old 10-29-2016, 11:14 PM
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I've always looked at stories that use the words "source close to the Queen's court" and such as a roundabout way of saying "we're making this up as we go".

Of course HM loves and has a special relationship with her two granddaughters Beatrice and Eugenie. When it comes to being "Granny", she loves each and every one of her grandchildren. This is totally different though from the workings of the "Firm" which is the monarchy's business.

What struck me though is that what could possibly happen if Charles was to cave in and give Beatrice and Eugenie public roles in the "Firm", its very possible too that it would be a free for all with publications like the Daily Fail that'll have fresh ground to incite the public's furor with Sarah sponging off daughters that are on the taxpayer's dime and who knows what else.

Charles is a very astute and intelligent man and I get the feeling that he will run his monarchy with sort of an iron fist as he'll make it his business to know each and every little detail of what is going on. Both Sarah and Andrew have not had glowing track records and no matter what Beatrice and Eugenie are like and how responsible they are or how hard working they could be for the "Firm", they'll still be very much associated with their parents and their lifestyles and influence.

I do think if Charles is gunning for a slimmed down monarchy, he's headed in the right direction and avoiding possible pitfalls. Neither Anne nor Edward seem to have a problem with their children being "passed over" as royals. Its only Andrew and who knows if its Sarah nudging him?
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  #2685  
Old 10-29-2016, 11:51 PM
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The Queen is very old, and even though she seems in good health for her age, she must be weary sometimes and eager to avoid family conflicts.
I think Andrew is very selfish to involve her in what is essentially an impasse with Charles.
He should be well-aware that such decisions are now largely left to his brother; why drag his mother into it?

If Charles were to give in, he must know it would cost the RF a huge loss in popularity. Andrew won't care, but Charles will need to preserve the public good will to keep his crown.
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  #2686  
Old 10-30-2016, 12:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I've always looked at stories that use the words "source close to the Queen's court" and such as a roundabout way of saying "we're making this up as we go".



Of course HM loves and has a special relationship with her two granddaughters Beatrice and Eugenie. When it comes to being "Granny", she loves each and every one of her grandchildren. This is totally different though from the workings of the "Firm" which is the monarchy's business.



What struck me though is that what could possibly happen if Charles was to cave in and give Beatrice and Eugenie public roles in the "Firm", its very possible too that it would be a free for all with publications like the Daily Fail that'll have fresh ground to incite the public's furor with Sarah sponging off daughters that are on the taxpayer's dime and who knows what else.



Charles is a very astute and intelligent man and I get the feeling that he will run his monarchy with sort of an iron fist as he'll make it his business to know each and every little detail of what is going on. Both Sarah and Andrew have not had glowing track records and no matter what Beatrice and Eugenie are like and how responsible they are or how hard working they could be for the "Firm", they'll still be very much associated with their parents and their lifestyles and influence.



I do think if Charles is gunning for a slimmed down monarchy, he's headed in the right direction and avoiding possible pitfalls. Neither Anne nor Edward seem to have a problem with their children being "passed over" as royals. Its only Andrew and who knows if its Sarah nudging him?

I would guess that Sarah is well and truly nudging him. I'm sure he finished up on the floor from nudging


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  #2687  
Old 10-30-2016, 01:06 AM
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It's a tough situation, because both Princesses know how to conduct official engagements on their own very well. They have patronages to support and have a nice public platform.

It's totally different from Anne's kids, because they're not titled and have long established an independent life outside of the Palace walls. Also, the press isn't really that into them.
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  #2688  
Old 10-30-2016, 01:17 AM
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It's a tough situation, because both Princesses know how to conduct official engagements on their own very well. They have patronages to support and have a nice public platform.

It's totally different from Anne's kids, because they're not titled and have long established an independent life outside of the Palace walls. Also, the press isn't really that into them.

Pity Andrew and Sarah didn't go the same way as Anne they might have had a happier life a step back from the firm.


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  #2689  
Old 10-30-2016, 01:27 AM
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Pity Andrew and Sarah didn't go the same way as Anne they might have had a happier life a step back from the firm.


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I think the York girls are pretty happy with their lives. If all this is true, it may that Andrew think his daughters would be of great help to the monarchy.

It could be a made up story too. The media has always made it seem like Charles and Andrew are going at it constantly. Now, its time to bring his grown daughters in the fight.

No good story than a royal sibling rivalry.
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  #2690  
Old 10-30-2016, 01:31 AM
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Charles is going to lose face if he gives in to his mother who was influenced by a letter sent by Beatrice to her cousin William who promptly sent it where? If he sent it to his grandmother then she is leaning on his father and, if she sent it to his father HM would be dragged in when Andrew found out William gave Beatrice her marching orders (and Eugenie by default).

Those "sources" sure have a lot to answer for as this dialogue gets nastier and nastier as the DM keeps the pressure on with article after article depicting Charles as an evil, brother-hating Machiavelli and HM as a spineless old dear who loves her granddaughters. Boo Hiss and Boo Hoo, as appropriate. But since no actual evidence of any part of this furore has reached the "news", we can't believe everything we read, and that's okay too.

But there are pages and pages of comments about this "situation", real or imagined, and all I can smell is burning rubber from the spinning wheels.
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  #2691  
Old 10-30-2016, 01:32 AM
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The York princesses just aren't very liked in Britain, though. It isn't just the media, though the tabs don't help, with their constant sniping about 'perpetual holidaying' etc. It's the 'sins of the fathers' and the mother in this case, syndrome, transferred to the daughters.

I just don't feel that Charles could afford to upset public sentiment on this issue, especially as he seems to want to clear the decks for the new reign and have a slimmed down monarchy as his preference.

If this story has any legs at all and isn't just the DM taking a swipe at easy targets, I really don't see why Eugenie is being twinned with her sister in this debate over future royal duties. Beatrice may well be a bit lost at the moment with no permanent job or boyfriend, while Eugenie's romance with Jack seems to be going great guns and she appears to be happily content working in the art world.

AFAIK Eugenie has never shown any interest in becoming a part time Royal and while she was living and working in the US I read that she hated people making reference to her title in any way. That doesn't strike me as the image of a person who is just hanging out to be a Royal back-up to her uncle and cousins in a few years.
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  #2692  
Old 10-30-2016, 01:34 AM
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Pity Andrew and Sarah didn't go the same way as Anne they might have had a happier life a step back from the firm.
I agree. A life lived in the shadows is a boon. IMO.
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  #2693  
Old 10-30-2016, 05:09 AM
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I can't wait for Charles to become King and do some necessary changes, eg to reduce the BRF to the core family and ask the not relevant family members to fade into insignificance.
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  #2694  
Old 10-30-2016, 06:49 AM
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I don't think he's going to ask anyone to fade into insignificance but allow time to do its work as the family members grow older and eventually slow down due to age. He has too much respect I think to oust anyone out of the "Firm" but will not be replacing them as time goes by.

It will be gradual but there definitely is an air that there will be changes once Charles does become king. As times change and things are looked at differently and done differently, I think we'll see that gradually happen in how the BRF conducts their working days.
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  #2695  
Old 10-30-2016, 09:07 AM
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I don't think he's going to ask anyone to fade into insignificance but allow time to do its work as the family members grow older and eventually slow down due to age. He has too much respect I think to oust anyone out of the "Firm" but will not be replacing them as time goes by.

It will be gradual but there definitely is an air that there will be changes once Charles does become king. As times change and things are looked at differently and done differently, I think we'll see that gradually happen in how the BRF conducts their working days.
with regard to the recent discussion, I don't expect Andrew and his daugthers to play any role or to see them on any balcony and it's about time that their roles will be defined once and for all.
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  #2696  
Old 10-30-2016, 09:14 AM
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I can't wait for Charles to become King and do some necessary changes, eg to reduce the BRF to the core family and ask the not relevant family members to fade into insignificance.
As pointed out by many observers, that would be completely irrational. The BRF cannot keep their current level of engagements with five people only, especially with Charles and Camilla already being an old couple. And, of course, if the family scales back their engagements, chances are their popularity will also fall.

The argument that the York princesses are not popular is really unfair as they were never given a public role that would allow them to establish a greater connection with the people. I am pretty sure that, if they had more public engagements and stepped up their charity patronages, their popularity would rise.
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  #2697  
Old 10-30-2016, 09:20 AM
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The fact that Beatrice and Eugenie get almost no mention in the Court Circular tells me their fate is sealed.

They will play a part when needed but they will not have an 'official role' under Charles.
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  #2698  
Old 10-30-2016, 11:21 AM
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As pointed out by many observers, that would be completely irrational. The BRF cannot keep their current level of engagements with five people only, especially with Charles and Camilla already being an old couple. And, of course, if the family scales back their engagements, chances are their popularity will also fall.

The argument that the York princesses are not popular is really unfair as they were never given a public role that would allow them to establish a greater connection with the people. I am pretty sure that, if they had more public engagements and stepped up their charity patronages, their popularity would rise.
There must be changes made within the firm. I believe those changes are coming about and will be made more effective when Charles become king.

Also, the young royals of today are redefining the substance on official engagements. The focus is now on the quality of their work, rather than the number of engagements that's being carried out.

Back in the old days, the late king (Queen's father) and very a young queen (current monarch) needed the help of their family to do official duties. After the Second World War, the monarchy tried to stretch the institution across the U.K. The Queen's children were too young during her early reign to carry out official duties. It's all different now.

The King and his immediate family should be the primary focus of the monarchy. I'm sure the other minor royals will continue to support their charities and organizations in the future.
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  #2699  
Old 10-30-2016, 12:12 PM
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As pointed out by many observers, that would be completely irrational. The BRF cannot keep their current level of engagements with five people only, especially with Charles and Camilla already being an old couple. And, of course, if the family scales back their engagements, chances are their popularity will also fall.

The argument that the York princesses are not popular is really unfair as they were never given a public role that would allow them to establish a greater connection with the people. I am pretty sure that, if they had more public engagements and stepped up their charity patronages, their popularity would rise.
Agree. I don't think that the argument that the York princesses are unpopular is "unfair" per se, but I've been around long enough to know that the popularity and unpopularity can be ephemeral, especially if it is based in misinformation or superficiality. I remember when Charles and Camilla were loathed, loathed(!!!) and also when Harry was royal screw up.

I think that Andrew comes off as ridiculous in the article(s) that sparked the current conversation, and even though the tabloid-esque headline of this article exploits the soap opera aspect of this matter, what got my attention is that a "senior member of the Queen’s court" states that ‘Charles’s vision for a streamlined family is all very well, but how can the Royal Family do everything it currently does with just five players?’ The courtier goes on to state that the Queen believes that "sidelining Beatrice and Eugenie could prove impractical" and "[for] the sake of the Monarchy, they should be allowed to carry out more royal duties."
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  #2700  
Old 10-30-2016, 12:21 PM
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As pointed out by many observers, that would be completely irrational. The BRF cannot keep their current level of engagements with five people only, especially with Charles and Camilla already being an old couple. And, of course, if the family scales back their engagements, chances are their popularity will also fall.

The argument that the York princesses are not popular is really unfair as they were never given a public role that would allow them to establish a greater connection with the people. I am pretty sure that, if they had more public engagements and stepped up their charity patronages, their popularity would rise.
Your first point works on the assumption that Charles want a RF doing 2,000+ duties a year and visiting all kinds of charities and projects. As much as I am not his greatest fan he is a smart man and surely would see that slimming down the RF will mean a RF doing less.
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