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  #2621  
Old 10-24-2016, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by duke of poliganc View Post
an telling the yorks when they were 25 and 23 that they aren't gonna be a working royals isn't that good heads up
Why do you think they were only told in 2013? Beatrice graduated in 2011, and at the time there were articles talking about how Beatrice was begrudgingly job hunting because she knew her future wasn't in the family firm.

The plan to streamline the monarchy has been talked about since the '90s. A 10 second Google search, and I found an article written in 1996 talking about it. Here it is-

Queen Mulls Reforms for Monarchy | News | The Moscow Times

LONDON -- Queen Elizabeth is contemplating making the royal family pay its own way and ditching ancient laws that make it harder for women to inherit the throne and forbid the British monarch marrying a Roman Catholic.


In a bid to modernize the tarnished image of the monarchy, the queen and her senior advisers have been looking at a range of options aimed at ensuring its survival into the 21st century.


Buckingham Palace on Monday confirmed newspaper reports that the queen had set up a strategic policy committee in the wake of what she described as her "annus horribilis" (horrible year). That was 1992, when the marriages of two of her sons collapsed and the high-spending, tax-free lifestyle of the royal family came under attack.


"One of the reasons the monarchy has lasted for over 1,000 years is that it is able to adapt and change as necessary, whilst retaining the enduring public support it enjoys," a palace spokeswoman said.


The committee is headed by the queen, her husband Prince Philip and the heir to the throne, Prince Charles. It meets twice a year for what royal-watchers call a "brainstorming session."


Buckingham Palace declined to give details. Newspapers said the reforms under consideration would include axing the state's 8.7 million pound ($13.5 million) annual payments to the royal family to make it financially self-supporting.


The royal family would also be streamlined, cutting out cousins and other distant relatives widely seen by the public as expensive "hangers-on" living off taxpayers money.


The committee is reported to be examining 11th-century rules which give priority to male children over girls in the right to succeed to the throne, and a 295-year-old ban on the British monarch marrying a Catholic.


The ban on marrying Catholics was enshrined in 1701 in a bid to prevent Papal interference in English life but it does not apply to any other religion and is now seen as offensive.


"The surprising thing is that it has not happened before. The heir to the throne can marry a Buddhist, a Jew, or a Moslem, but not a Catholic," said Catholic writer William Oddie.


I'd say 8-year-old Beatrice and 6-year-old Eugenie were given plenty of notice.
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  #2622  
Old 10-24-2016, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by miss whirley View Post

I'd say 8-year-old Beatrice and 6-year-old Eugenie were given plenty of notice.

I'm not so sure; I remember when a grown Beatrice accompanied Andrew on a visit to another country and he said he saw no reason why Beatrice should NOT be given royal duties. (He said something about how that would lessen his own burden).

So, plans may have been for a diminished monarchy, but I don't believe the Yorks ever considered that it would apply to them.
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  #2623  
Old 10-24-2016, 08:51 AM
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It took some time but a lot of the things in that article did happen- equal primogeniture and removal of the Catholic marriage ban. We will probably see the Gloucesters and Kents retire from public duties in the next couple of years.


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  #2624  
Old 10-24-2016, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
I'm not so sure; I remember when a grown Beatrice accompanied Andrew on a visit to another country and he said he saw no reason why Beatrice should NOT be given royal duties. (He said something about how that would lessen his own burden).

So, plans may have been for a diminished monarchy, but I don't believe the Yorks ever considered that it would apply to them.

Andrew can think what ever he wants about what his daughters should be able to do. However, he isn't in control of the money. That would be his mother and then his brother.


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  #2625  
Old 10-24-2016, 08:57 AM
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I think the sticking point is over an 'official role' within the family. Andrew is very status conscious and he appears to want an equal footing with the Cambridges and Harry

The Monarchy under Charles will see his family front and centre but that doesn't mean other royals won't be called on to help out when needed.
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  #2626  
Old 10-24-2016, 11:53 AM
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Speaking of money, I guess the formula that funds the current set up will have to be adapted for the streamlined monarchy under Charles and eventually William.
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  #2627  
Old 10-24-2016, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
I think the sticking point is over an 'official role' within the family. Andrew is very status conscious and he appears to want an equal footing with the Cambridges and Harry

The Monarchy under Charles will see his family front and centre but that doesn't mean other royals won't be called on to help out when needed.
Deep down I believe you are correct. Andrew has always been happy with his status of being a Prince and its perks, which is fine. But I believe he now sees that he will probably be made less important in the eyes of the public and RF for important duties. There are too many coming up in family who the public would rather see. He also sees how his life has turned out. From being the most handsome of the young BR to the only one without a now happy married life and happy families. His two brothers and sister have mellowed with their home lives being practically the way they want them. Andrew actually has nothing of the kind. Which at day's end is a tad lonely. Some of his recent photos [when not posed] shows Andrew frowning, almost bitter. I sincerely hope not. As a father, Andrew feels his daughters are just as important as his siblings children. But, even the queen must not be so sure of their public roles or else she would have done so years ago. The Yorks saw the writing on the wall back at least 10 years. They just didn't want to admit. JMO
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  #2628  
Old 10-24-2016, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Queen Claude View Post
Speaking of money, I guess the formula that funds the current set up will have to be adapted for the streamlined monarchy under Charles and eventually William.
Of course it will. I don't see that as a problem. Every one of the young Royals have quite a lot of money in their own right through inheritances and good investing. Read Forbes reports on the royals of all countries some day. Extremely interesting. Charles, William, Harry, Andrew, Anne and Edward would never have to "work" another day in their lives and still maintain a lifestyle above most all in this world. I don't believe money is the driving force of the eventual downsizing. It is practicality and common sense. Anne saw this years ago when she wanted her children out of the merry-go-round and encouraged them to go after a life style removed from it all. I believe Edward will encourage his children to do the same. Sure, they will always be born of a queen, but their own children will enjoy a happier life. IMO
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  #2629  
Old 10-24-2016, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Queen Claude View Post
Speaking of money, I guess the formula that funds the current set up will have to be adapted for the streamlined monarchy under Charles and eventually William.
The funding has nothing to do with the number of working royals.

HMQ gets 15% of the net profit from Crown Estates (although this funding level is due for review next yr). This pays not only for royal staff but also maintenance of royal palaces. She also has income from Duchy of Lancaster.

she decides who does royal duties and pays to support their offices (excl PoW and family).

If there were less royals then repairs and maintenance of royal palaces could be speeded up.

Where savings would be made is on security.
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  #2630  
Old 10-24-2016, 01:30 PM
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No Royal is getting paid for doing an engagement. William didn't make £500 for himself by showing up at Stirling Castle. However doing that engagement costs money- travel costs, staffing, security etc..

As Cepe mentioned there is a huge backlog of royal palace maintenance. When the Queen passes, that would be the ideal time to tackle the issues of BP. Charles and Camilla can stay at Clarence House until the BP repairs are done.

If the Gloucester and Kents retire from public duties or cut down their schedules to occasion duty, Charles is then only financing the activities of Anne, Andrew, Edward, Sophie plus himself and Camilla. William could possibly carry Harry on the Duchy of Cornwall money while he is single and the kids are little for the initial early part of the reign and in time Harry gets separated from William's household and goes under Charles's financial support.

The money from less royals and less engagements gets directed towards the repair backlog on the palaces.


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  #2631  
Old 10-24-2016, 02:00 PM
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In all the discussion over the years of the royal family downsizing, the only person that has kind of come up fighting to be heard and keeps on plugging his POV about it is Andrew. Not once, in any of the articles and statements, has it ever been mentioned why. Its "Charles kids will overshadow the blood princesses" or "they are on equal footing with the rest of the family" or whatever statement you look at, there is no explanation given that would denote the York girls being good for the Firm.

The British Royal Family or as fondly known as the "Firm" has alway run like clockwork because they've always worked together as a team. I believe a lot of what Andrew demands and pushes for stems from the "I" as in "I want".

I, also, have never read anything from Beatrice and Eugenie themselves hinting to be included in the "Firm". There has been a lot printed about these girls over the years but never in the context that they're severely disappointed that they do not have a planned role in the family business.

In a nutshell, to me, this is a case of one person in the family coming up with "I want" whereas the rest of the family works together as a team. This reflects on Andrew's character far more than it does on the "Firm".
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  #2632  
Old 10-24-2016, 02:15 PM
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Princess Anne did not want a tittle for her Chlldren and they have happy and interesting lifes without working for the team.
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  #2633  
Old 10-24-2016, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
We will probably see the Gloucesters and Kents retire from public duties in the next couple of years.
We're already seeing at least the initial stages in their retirement and in the Queen and Prince Phillip's slowing down. One of the Duke of Kent's biggest public roles, patron of Wimbledon, is being handed over to the Duchess of Cambridge; Phillip handed over his post with the RAF cadets to her, too. That's got to be as much about them ratcheting down their responsibilities as it is about giving her more honors.

Whatever conversations have happened over the last couple of decades, whatever plans were made in that time, this stage of handing over the retiring members' responsibilities is the moment for last minute maneuvering by everyone involved to try and determine what actually happens in this generational shift. If there's any truth to the perception of the Yorks as being hungry for a formal role, Andrew has to have seen this moment of large-scale handover as a last chance to at least get his daughters enough "royal work" to protect them against any future complaints that they don't really merit palace apartments. At the same time, I can't help but wonder if William and Harry might justify their slugishness in taking on patronages as a way of leaving plenty of room on their dance cards, so to speak, for the roles that will surely be passed on to them soon. And if they are clearly available to take on plenty of work that others are retiring, then there's less of an argument to adjust the plan to carve out a role for Bea and Eug.
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  #2634  
Old 10-24-2016, 03:02 PM
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Next up: Daily Mail headline. Andrew Seeing Blood Red

"In a fit of rage over his daughters being overlooked by the British Royal Family, Sebastian Shakespeare can now tell you Andrew has threatened to remove himself and his family from the UK permanently in a fit of pique of his daughters not being treated as due their station as blood princesses".

Sounds like something Andrew would do eh?


THIS IS A JOKE AND NOT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY AS IT IS ALL MY OWN IMAGINATION.
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  #2635  
Old 10-24-2016, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Next up: Daily Mail headline. Andrew Seeing Blood Red

"In a fit of rage over his daughters being overlooked by the British Royal Family, Sebastian Shakespeare can now tell you Andrew has threatened to remove himself and his family from the UK permanently in a fit of pique of his daughters not being treated as due their station as blood princesses".

Sounds like something Andrew would do eh?


THIS IS A JOKE AND NOT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY AS IT IS ALL MY OWN IMAGINATION.


Charles would buy them plane tickets!
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  #2636  
Old 10-24-2016, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Next up: Daily Mail headline. Andrew Seeing Blood Red

"In a fit of rage over his daughters being overlooked by the British Royal Family, Sebastian Shakespeare can now tell you Andrew has threatened to remove himself and his family from the UK permanently in a fit of pique of his daughters not being treated as due their station as blood princesses".

Sounds like something Andrew would do eh?


THIS IS A JOKE AND NOT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY AS IT IS ALL MY OWN IMAGINATION.

In the good old Victorian age, they would be both nicely married by now to some continental European royal, or at least a very wealthy British peer or heir to a peerage. Back then, being a princess had nothing to do with being a civil servant with a public role. It was simply a condition one was born into and an extension of a class system where a person's standing in society was closely associated with his/her ancestry.
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  #2637  
Old 10-24-2016, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
In the good old Victorian age, they would be both nicely married by now to some continental European royal, or at least a very wealthy British peer or heir to a peerage. Back then, being a princess had nothing to do with being a civil servant with a public role. It was simply a condition one was born into and an extension of a class system where a person's standing in society was closely associated with his/her ancestry.
Exactly. Doing public engagements is a relatively modern tradition for the British royal family. When we think about it, it was not until Charles that the role of Prince of Wales actually was seen as a working role in and of itself. The previous POW did royal duties (although sometimes very reluctantly) but it was actually Charles that defined the position that most likely will be the yardstick for future POWs to measure up to.

I think perhaps Andrew was born into the wrong era. He would have been happier living in an era where the status of Prince and all its entitlements were his due just because of who he is in society's pecking order.
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  #2638  
Old 10-24-2016, 04:43 PM
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Forgive me if this may have been said earlier in the thread, but are we right to assume that whatever Andrew may want for his daughters is necessarily what they want for themselves? It's clear that they appear to relish occasions such as Ascot, but to be a full-time member of the firm may not be their desire. Depending on who they marry, their lives may have a very different direction.
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  #2639  
Old 10-24-2016, 05:19 PM
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I see Eugenie as the Prince Michael of Kent or even pre 1970's the Duke of Gloucester because it seems she knows what she is doing, but Beatrice seems lke the one who will go along with what anything her father says. To be hones they are in a really weird situation. They are not like the Linleys, Chattos, or the Phillips because all those families have examples of how to live their lives in the Ramsays and Fifes. The Wessexes seem to have blazed their own trail. But as blood princesses ideally they should be doing royal duties. But their aren't because of the new royal family. Maybe if the queen had had a fifth child, a girl, they could relate or talk to her about this but they there isn't one. Anne doesn't seem to talk to them and in my opinion if she did she would be like stop wasting your life and don't be like your mother.
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  #2640  
Old 10-24-2016, 05:42 PM
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I tend to get confused by the issue, so I just worked it out on paper.

Not all of the Queen's first cousins became full time working royals. That would tell me that there is not precedent that a prince or princess must be given digs at KP and a job as a full time royal.

None of Charles first cousins are full time working royals. Again, this tells me there is not a precedent.

Just because you are a princess or prince, there is no precedent saying you must be given work as a full time royal. Two generations back.
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