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  #2601  
Old 10-23-2016, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
People seem happy the royal family is slimming and I honestly wonder why. Do they think it will be less expensive because honestly that is the only concern I see. .

I honestly don't think it would be a problem, if certain family members were not so unpopular.

For example, take Princess Alexandra- I don't recall anyone ever complaining about her doing royal duties, since she was very popular.

But the York girls are not (I put that down mostly to their parents, who have a lot to answer for).

I'm convinced that's the reason why Charles won't accept them, and also why they may not marry well (by RF standards).
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  #2602  
Old 10-23-2016, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
I honestly don't think it would be a problem, if certain family members were not so unpopular.

For example, take Princess Alexandra- I don't recall anyone ever complaining about her doing royal duties, since she was very popular.


But the York girls are not (I put that down mostly to their parents, who have a lot to answer for).

I'm convinced that's the reason why Charles won't accept them, and also why they may not marry well (by RF standards).
I honestly don't think that's the issue. If it were, Beatrice and Eugenie would just be replaced by Louise and James to carry on the peripheral royal work that the Kents and Gloucesters are doing now. But I see no evidence that in 10-15 years Louise and James will be groomed for duty, quite the opposite.

There are too many working royals. Even The Queen wasn't expecting this many. Prince Andrew wasn't expected to cut his Navy career short. Edward and Sophie were expected to be private citizens with their own career passions, but they had to be absorbed into the royal machine because they were having financial difficulties and pr mishaps. If I were to guess, I'd say in 10-15 years the surprise add-ons (Andrew,Edward,Sophie) are the ones who will be replacing the Kents and Gloucesters. With William, Catherine, Harry, and Mrs. Harry taking on the main stage royal work.
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  #2603  
Old 10-23-2016, 04:40 PM
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I don't really see Beatrice and Eugenie as people that need to be a part of the actual working "Firm" to do what they do. I don't believe that they're doing these charities and patronages and gala events to make the "Firm" sit up and take notice of them nor are they going to drop anything that they're already doing should the decision drop "definitely not in any shape or form working for the "Firm". Neither of these girls, I believe, have ulterior motives.

I don't believe that it matter to either of them if they work for the family or not. They do what they do because its what they want to do. They are princesses of the royal blood but its not something that has gone to their heads as far as I can see.
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  #2604  
Old 10-23-2016, 05:03 PM
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These things go in cycles. In the 30s, apart from the George V & Queen Mary, there were 4 adult Princes, three with spouses, and the Princess Royal, plus an outer ring of cousins.

Following the death of King George VI, the core of the firm was composed of The Queen, the Duke of Edinburgh, The Queen Mother and Princess Margaret, with the Gloucesters and Princess Marina, dowager Duchess of Kent in the outer circle.

Fast forward to the 70s and Charles & Anne have joined the inner core, with Margaret having a lower profile than before but still more prominent than the Gloucesters and the Kents.

The adulthood of all four of the Queen's children and their subsequent marriages made the stage much more crowded once again. It was at this point that the cost of it all became a major issue, and that despite the fact that Margaret was increasingly sidelined due to health issues and the Queen Mother became less active due to her advanced age. Viscount Linley and Lady Sarah, nephew and niece to the Queen, were never full-time firm members, though.

It is likely that William & Kate, and Harry are not yet done as far as producing the next generation of Princes & Princesses is concerned. It seems likely that in 10-15 years, there will be Charles & Camilla, William & Kate and Harry + at the core of the firm, with Andrew, Edward & Sophie and Anne doing what the Gloucesters and Kents have done up to now. Therefore, much in the way that the Armstrong-Jones children never had more than walk-on parts, it seems probable that Beatrice & Eugenie will be superfluous to the firm's needs.
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  #2605  
Old 10-23-2016, 05:26 PM
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I agree with the notion that "staffing decisions" should be made by Charles and William also having input because they are the ones who will have to deal with current decisions in the long term. However I just don't agree with the decisions being made, Countessmeout's post summarized much of my feelings about the matter.

I get the idea of not having a bloated monarchy but that is not happening, the declining birth rate amongst the royals, along with heirs and spares being allowed to pursue other interests like being air ambulance pilots and spending months in Africa on conservation projects, pretty much fixed that.

What I see as the right way to go about it is to have a performance based system where if a grandchild, niece or cousin of a monarch wishes to work in The Firm then the Chief Executive should not be opposed to it on the basis of that royal not being close enough to the crown. Now I do believe in starting small and setting limits like not making the person a full-time royal with a full-time staff right off the bat. Yeah maybe the time will come where there will be more people of a given generation wanting to be working royals that there is a need to say no but I don't think that is the current situation.
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  #2606  
Old 10-23-2016, 06:01 PM
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I think it would be bad move to have the girls doing full time duties, They should get on with doing there own thing, and show up for weddings and big events.
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  #2607  
Old 10-23-2016, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miss whirley View Post
I honestly don't think that's the issue. If it were, Beatrice and Eugenie would just be replaced by Louise and James to carry on the peripheral royal work that the Kents and Gloucesters are doing now. But I see no evidence that in 10-15 years Louise and James will be groomed for duty, quite the opposite.

I do. If Harry does not get engaged or married in 5 years, which is unlikely but possible, I see whoever is monarch at the time starting to prep Louise to become the next Princess Alexandra but that's a different topic.
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  #2608  
Old 10-23-2016, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyalHighness 2002 View Post

I do. If Harry does not get engaged or married in 5 years, which is unlikely but possible, I see whoever is monarch at the time starting to prep Louise to become the next Princess Alexandra.
That is if Louise is agreeable to it.
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  #2609  
Old 10-23-2016, 06:32 PM
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And it all costs lots of money in transport, staff and security. And HMQ has been paying for some of the royals from her own personal income.

This does not include the cost of security. This a direct taxcost.

Please, point me to the money tree.
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  #2610  
Old 10-23-2016, 06:52 PM
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This entire conversation is rooted in a "rumour".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
The Queen is still the Queen and she's ultimately in charge but I do think she consults and defers to Charles on many matters, especially long term planning for the Firm.

In fact I think William's opinion is sought out more and more. It was 'rumoured' during the Jubilee celebrations that Beatrice went not her uncle Charles but her cousin William when seeking a bigger role within the family but was politely rebuffed.

Charles has a clear idea of the direction he wants to take the family and I think the Queen is responsive to this.
We don't know if Beatrice approached anyone let alone William, yet here you all are discussing why Beatrice and Eugenie are "unworthy" anyway.

Why are people so ready to believe the rags when the stories are about the Yorks and cry foul and rubbish when it is about the Charles and Camilla, the Cambridges or Harry? Worse, when articles like these are published it starts a "get rid of the Yorks" campaign here.

When it comes to sins and sinners, Harry eclipses his cousins and is allowed the courtesy of growing up with a little wiggle room for the odd "lapse", yet Beatrice and Eugenie are blatantly dismissed for no other reason than being their parents children.
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  #2611  
Old 10-23-2016, 07:00 PM
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By the way, the Daily Mail article in this whole subject has over 4,00 comments. O bet at least 1,000 are rubbish but that is definitely a lot for an article about Beatrice and Eugenie.
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  #2612  
Old 10-23-2016, 07:10 PM
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Two things. I do believe Andrew wants his children to have a bigger role within the family and I do believe the powers (The Queen, Charles and William) aren't receptive to this.

A lot of the details are rumour but I do believe the core of the story to be true.
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  #2613  
Old 10-23-2016, 07:11 PM
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I don't think for a minute 'everyone' has a problem with Beatrice or Eugenie, they do actually seem nice girls, yes some will dislike them for their clothes, parents etc, i think most just simply don't agree with more royals doing things that require public funding. Unfortunately they are unique in that they are the only ones of their generation whom this (much bigger) issue effects - Zara and Peter don't have royal titles and have other 'jobs', Louise and James are too young but even so their parents seem to have made the decision (in regards to their titles at least) to play down the HRH aspects. A lot changed between the York girls and the Wessex kids being born but clearly the Wessex way is more in line with a smaller monarchy and some say a more modern monarchy, sadly the Yorks seem to be the only ones who can't see it.
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  #2614  
Old 10-23-2016, 07:36 PM
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the situation of the yorks remind me of prince alexander of Belgium

in a May 2008 interview with Point de Vue, Alexander's wife noted,
Quote:
"...the children of the second marriage of King Leopold -- Prince Alexandre, the Princesses Maria Esmeralda and Marie-Christine -- have been raised in a certain manner: Prince and Princesses of Belgium, accorded the style of Royal Highness, yet excluded from the succession to the throne.
Alexandre received a very solid intellectual education...He waited to assume some official responsibilities. They never came "
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  #2615  
Old 10-23-2016, 09:53 PM
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It seems to me that the nature of Royal duties has changed in the last generation or two. I've recently read a number of biographies about various members of the Royal family in the last couple of generations and one thing that struck me was the multi-month royal tours they used to take. These days a 2 week tour is a long one unlike days of old when members of the family were away from the UK for several months. So with the core members only doing abbreviated foreign tours they are available to do more work in the UK.
The fact that when he married Edward was expecting to work privately as was Sophie suggests that even then the plan was to not further enlarge the core Royals. Since Edward & Sophie have been added to the Royals who work for the firm they along with Andrew are in position to replace the aging Kents/Gloucesters until such time as George and Charlotte and Harry's children are of age.
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  #2616  
Old 10-23-2016, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
A lot changed between the York girls and the Wessex kids being born but clearly the Wessex way is more in line with a smaller monarchy and some say a more modern monarchy, sadly the Yorks seem to be the only ones who can't see it.

I don't think Andrew will ever see it.
He seems to have the strongest sense of entitlement of any of the Queen's children (perhaps because he has always been accorded the role of the favorite child).

He simply can't comprehend that he won't always get his way.

I think all this is happening now because Andrew wants to have a fait accumpli before the Queen is gone and Charles succeeds. He knows Charles will not be as receptive to Andrew's desires as his mother has been.
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  #2617  
Old 10-24-2016, 05:44 AM
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Prince Charles 'blocks Prince Andrew's request for Beatrice and Eugenie's royal roles' | Daily Mail Online
i think it's unfair for the yorks imagine your self being called doctor all your life by all the peopel who surround you and getting the education to be a doctor but after u finished your study they say to you we got enough doctors so we aren't gonna need u and then critc you because u are not working as an engineer !!
if charles would like to slim the working royal family he should start with the next generation the wessex's and the princess royal children wasn't expected to be working royals but the yorks were expected to be .
why don't you let them do the job that they were groomed for and are ready to do it when u are begging the second in line to the throne and his spouse to be a full time working royal the princess royal do royal engagements every year more than what the cambridge's done in the last 5 years combined i read somewhere someone wrote that we are only seeing our third and fourth in line to the throne on a oversea visit to another country .
i think that the yorks if they are giving the chance would be would be on the same pass as princess anne and alexandra .
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  #2618  
Old 10-24-2016, 06:16 AM
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As it stands now, Beatrice and Eugenie never were intended to become working royals at all. Its never been part of the plan. William and Harry both were in the military for years and after Will's wedding, they were never expected to be full time working royals and Will works with air ambulance. Harry just left the military about a year ago. All three have really been upping their engagements lately and it is expected that William and Kate will soon step into their roles as full time royals which will be their focus for the rest of their lives.

You do realize that when stating that we're seeing the third and fourth in line to the throne doing overseas visits, although its true, George and Charlotte actually had their parents with them on the tour of Canada.

Seriously though, I think if there was any chance of the York girls were ever going to work for the "Firm", it would have become a reality before now.
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  #2619  
Old 10-24-2016, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
You do realize that when stating that we're seeing the third and fourth in line to the throne doing overseas visits, although its true, George and Charlotte actually had their parents with them on the tour of Canada.
the one i was quoting is saying that we get to see George and Charlotte on overseas visit more than seeing them in the country they are third and fourth in line to it's throne .

an telling the yorks when they were 25 and 23 that they aren't gonna be a working royals isn't that good heads up
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  #2620  
Old 10-24-2016, 07:27 AM
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The 3rd and 4th to throne are also toddlers. The general Canadian public wasn't the airport arrival or the invite only kids party so they only place they could see the kids in person was at the seaplane departure. So 1 opportunity in Canada, 1 UK opportunity on BP balcony.

It's not like the UK has no media or internet service and could not see the pictures and videos that they rest of the world did. Don't worry the kids will get older and do way more stuff in the U.K. than they will ever to do overseas.

I highly doubt that Beatrice and Eugenie were just recently told that they wouldn't be full time royals.


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