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  #2541  
Old 06-28-2016, 10:33 AM
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I like when The Queen and Charles attended an event at the Prince's Trust. Also when Charles and Camilla accompanied The Queen and Prince Philip to open the Welsh Assembly. I would like to see them doing more of that.

I'd like to see Charles and Camilla, William and Catherine doing some duties together. Of course they would likely split up on the engagements and visit different areas. But it would be nice to see them doing some regional tours and then meet up back again for another event.

An event like this (when Charles, Camilla and William, Catherine attended a concert in aid of The Prince's Trust and Royal Foundation) should happen more often-
http://www.gettyimages.com/license/158162876

I'm just hoping to see a little more unity between at least the 5 main senior royals.
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  #2542  
Old 06-28-2016, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Well what's wrong with the couples carrying out some engagements together?
There is nothing wrong with it. There are downsides , however:
It's inefficient. There are not many occasions that call for a royal show of force to accomplish the goal of the event attendance. I could even argue that the large public appearances add more to concern for tradition (not a bad thing) than to the compelling need for the family to appear together.
It's not an even playing field. I put this down to the press' obsession with parts of the family. The additional attention gained by some family members is negligible when certain other family members attend. In fact, I personally think the press demeans the good works of some working royals when others are present.
I also have always thought that HM thinks her family should be able to stand on their own two feet and rep for the firm. Doing so spreads the love over more ground, more often. And I think she sees that as the family role.
Mutual appearances are great when there is a desire to show a united front, on family occasions, when newish royals are being guided or introduced to a constituency. JMO
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  #2543  
Old 06-28-2016, 08:02 PM
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Since the 'uk leaves eu' thread has been shut for review due to it getting too emotionally charged - how do the fine folk of the Royal forums think the proposed exit of the U.K. from the eu will impact Charles's approach to being King?

Back on the other thread, there was speculation about the impact on the BRFs relationships with the other royals. Will the possible diminution of the UK's standing lead to a fundamental change in style,a doubling down on pomp and ceremony as a distraction? an upsurge of republican sentiment?

Given the real possibility that the UK could very well fall apart over this and long term economic stagnation is also probable, will Charles age and background be an advantage or a drawback?

I know that Charles is quite pro eu so this can't be a fun time for him - any suggestions?
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  #2544  
Old 06-28-2016, 08:30 PM
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I think it will depend on a number of things. Just leaving the EU won't diminish the BRF standing. For 9/10ths of the history of the British Isles and the Royal Family, Britain wasn't in the EU. Why will there necessarily be longterm British economic stagnation?

The Commonwealth is still there. The British royals don't make that many official trips to Continental Europe anyway, war commemorations aside. State visits will still continue regardless, royals like Sophia of Spain, the Danes and Norwegian royals will still make private visits in the new reign,etc.

However, if Scotland votes for independence, that will be a huge blow. The family, especially the Queen and Charles, love Balmoral. If another referendum after that votes for a republican Scotland, it will affect the family, especially King Charles, a great deal.

It's not so much the population of Scotland, (there are only a few million in population), but the territory and Balmoral and less engagements all round, because of course, north of the border would be a republic. The break up of the U.K. as the United Kingdom would impact the BRF dreadfully, emotionally too. It's often forgotten that the Queen's half Scottish, so subsequently Charles is part Scot too.

Altogether, if Scotland holds, nothing much will happen, (and nothing will happen over the next couple of years anyway.) If Scotland becomes a republic in the future there may well be a lessening of funding for the monarch etc, but things like the Trooping, State visits, Ascot, Diplomatic Corps reception will remain, IMO.
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  #2545  
Old 06-28-2016, 08:53 PM
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The EU, whatever its failings has been a huge force for good over the past seven decades and britians role in it was/is overall a positive one. Although I may well be wrong on the question of the economy, the fact that most of britians trade is with Europe, that they might be shut out of the common market as punishments for all this, (trade deals take a looong time to negotiate) and that Britain out of the EU is not as attractive a investment destination, combined with frankly incompetent political leadership, long term economic and social dislocation looks likely to me - it's gonna make the thatcher years look like a trip to Disney land.

Likewise, Scotland isn't that much of a problem compared to the possibility of renewed conflict in NI.

Charles has had enough crap to put up with in the course of his tenure as heir, I don't want him the King who might well have to preside over the breakup of Britain, he's long overdue a good turn. I was secretly hoping that he would be able to leave his mark by encouraging a better relationship with Europe and constitutional reform as his legacy - that probably won't happen now as it's probably going to be damage control for the next 10-15 years.

I could well be wrong but current events don't give me much cause for hope - and I sincerely hope on those grounds that I am wrong!
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  #2546  
Old 06-28-2016, 09:03 PM
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My own personal prediction is (hoping against hope here) that Charles will rise to the challenge of guiding the country in what's going to be a very difficult time, whatever his earlier failings - his influence, if deployed with tact and caution, could be a very healthy calming influence and a voice for sanity and reconciliation. Part of this might involve a reform of the more problematic elements of the royal household and greater clarification of constitutional powers and Royal finance.
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  #2547  
Old 06-28-2016, 09:27 PM
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Charles will no doubt be upset by the developments. I agree that he would be in the remain camp. He, as monarch, will no doubt keep his Romanian holdings and is one of the few members of the BRF which does visit Europe reasonably often. However, the BRF as an entity has undoubtedly been Commonwealth-centric, if I can put it that way, since the days of transformation from Empire. I still think, as I put in a previous post, that it would be the possible loss of Scotland that would impact the family most, especially Charles, who adores the country.

I know these remarks below are off topic and I won't write about the EU thing again.

If I were still living in Britain I would have voted to remain, mainly because of opportunities for young people to live and work in Europe. However, i can see both sides in this debate, and in spite of the assertions of some on the EU thread, that organisation is no Shangrila.

I took a look on a website some time ago which showed a very interesting table. It showed that with the exception of Germany, France, Britain,and, to a lesser extent the Netherlands, the rest of the members either paid very little into EU coffers or nothing at all, and were heavily subsidised with EU money. That's an awful lot of tiny and/or bankrupt states being kept afloat by three, now two, powerhouses.

Charles would no doubt try to play a calming and reconciling central role in any turbulent times, and to a limited extent would do it well. However, from experience of my time living in the UK on and off since I emigrated many years ago, (I'm an ex Pom, anyway) I don't know that he would necessarily be listened to a great deal.

Charles is respected for his work ethic and the fact that he cares deeply about certain issues. However, he is often described as a waffler, he is sometimes seen as an eccentric, there is still the Camilla/Diana thing weighing down the saddlebags.

I think that any attempt by Charles as King to gain a more central role than that of a strictly constitutional monarch (as a sort of national advocate/adviser for instance) would be slapped down by the Government very quickly.

He could and probably will, slim down the BRF considerably, and that will certainly have an impact on financial matters concerning the royals.

Let's not forget though that Charles conducts his private existence as POW in a far more extravagant way than his mother does as Queen. He is cushioned by Duchy money which enables him to live the lifestyle of an Edwardian grandee, with a huge staff. He loves living in the grand manner (and he can afford to) and adores throwing grand parties. I'm not sure how much rationalising of Royal finances Charles would want to do as a monarch.
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  #2548  
Old 06-28-2016, 10:19 PM
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What I described above was the best case scenario - I'm not normally that generous with Charles.

As for Charles and the commonwealth - that's interesting you've said that as I was always under the impression that Charles was not as in to the CWMTH as his mother and given his public statements and views on a number of matters, always came off to me as europhile - I could just well be projecting. It would be the height of stupidity if he was given all the CAP subsidies he gets for the duchy of Cornwall.

I do however know for a fact that a lot of CMWTH leaders don't have the same regard for Charles as they do for his mother and consider his knowledge of the organisation to be somewhat lacking. It's unlikely he will be head of the organisation when the time comes - it'll probably become a rotating headship.

The habit of living like and Edwardian grandee is a major drawback and the only real course of survival I can see is adopting a more low key approach. there's nothing wrong with extravagance once in a while when the Occassion calls for it, but all the time... I know that the RF are all wealthy and "U" I don't mind, but there need to be some tact about it especially in hard economic times.

The friendship and relations with the other European royals will remain, but it's possible that in the countries that are still in the EU that associations with the Windsors will be similar to how relations with German royals post WWII Was seen - awkward, tricky, and perceived as politically suspect.
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  #2549  
Old 06-28-2016, 10:32 PM
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Could you be a little more specific about what constitutes the behavior of an Edwardian grandee?
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  #2550  
Old 06-28-2016, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by MARG View Post
Could you be a little more specific about what constitutes the behavior of an Edwardian grandee?
Having a stable of racehorses.

Oh wait that is the Queen.
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  #2551  
Old 06-28-2016, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by MARG View Post
Could you be a little more specific about what constitutes the behavior of an Edwardian grandee?
Ok to be fair that image of Charles is a bit overblown and he's not that different from the rest of the family and the extended European Royal family.

But it is the stories about the boiled eggs and having a valet squeeze toothpaste out for him are damaging as it fits in with previous actions such as rejecting a number of grace and favour properties and instead buying one of his own, the lavish entertaining and the perception of ingratitude, combined with the now infamous self pity, can it times make Charles seem like he accidentally stumbled into a time machine on the way to Edward VII's coronation
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  #2552  
Old 06-28-2016, 11:53 PM
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What I'm trying to say is that, one of the major problems Charles will have as King is remaining relevant. Although he means well and it is painfully obvious that he wants to be relevant and needed, with a number of this past actions and lifestyle habits he might well instead become the opposite, and I don't want that to happen, and the political fallout of brexit makes this more likely for reasons that are no fault of his.
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  #2553  
Old 06-28-2016, 11:53 PM
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Charles has a personal staff of 124, including three valets. No doubt many of them are estate workers/gardeners keeping the gardens of Highgrove pristine, however I doubt very much that aristocrats, even Dukes, have lived in that sort of style, in and out of Europe, since the Second and probably the First, World War. I'm not talking about monarchs, as they are a different kettle of fish.
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  #2554  
Old 06-29-2016, 12:04 AM
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Also don't forget the income from the duchy of Cornwall, being to live that well of a family appendage is not a good loo as other heirs simply get how much their governments give them - I wonder if Charles would have been less inclined to behave as badly as he did at times if there was a financial threat hanging over him like his siblings and cousins. he really does not need that much money even if does know how to spend it with taste and aplomb
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  #2555  
Old 06-29-2016, 12:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WreathOfLaurels View Post
What I'm trying to say is that, one of the major problems Charles will have as King is remaining relevant. Although he means well and it is painfully obvious that he wants to be relevant and needed, with a number of this past actions and lifestyle habits he might well instead become the opposite, and I don't want that to happen, and the political fallout of brexit makes this more likely for reasons that are no fault of his.
In my view, Charles, as king, will be as relevant and needed as his mother is now: no more, no less. The monarch has a full schedule of duties mapped out for him and all he will have to do is follow the bouncing ball.

I see his main challenge will be keeping his mouth shut, and I think it would be a good idea to have one of his minders accompany him to every function where he is likely to have the chance to chat to attendees, and charged with the duty of stepping in and distract the King politely when it seems he is about to speak his mind.
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  #2556  
Old 06-29-2016, 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
In my view, Charles, as king, will be as relevant and needed as his mother is now: no more, no less. The monarch has a full schedule of duties mapped out for him and all he will have to do is follow the bouncing ball.

I see his main challenge will be keeping his mouth shut, and I think it would be a good idea to have one of his minders accompany him to every function where he is likely to have the chance to chat to attendees, and charged with the duty of stepping in and distract the King politely when it seems he is about to speak his mind.
Well the problem from my point of view is that, although I'm not expecting Charles to turn into Juan Carlos circa 1981, I do hope for a little self awareness as since Brussels can't be blamed for problems in the political system, it would be all too easy for public anger to be directed to the monarchy.

I know that sounds unlikely but these things can't be ruled out, especially if the politicians were looking for something to distract attention away from their failings. Remember that brexit seemed unlikely at one point as well.
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  #2557  
Old 06-29-2016, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong;1904216[B
]Charles has a personal staff of 124[/B], including three valets. No doubt many of them are estate workers/gardeners keeping the gardens of Highgrove pristine, however I doubt very much that aristocrats, even Dukes, have lived in that sort of style, in and out of Europe, since the Second and probably the First, World War. I'm not talking about monarchs, as they are a different kettle of fish.
Someone is twisting the facts.

Charles does not have a personal staff of 124.

There are only 18 personal staff that work for the entire Wales family which includes Charles, Camilla, William, Catherine and Harry.

The 124 people work for the various charities or for the offices of the entire Wales family or as part of official duties.

From the Annual Review released a few days ago.
Quote:
The Prince of Wales employs directly 143 full-time equivalent staff. Of these, 124.7 support Their Royal Highnesses in undertaking official duties and charitable activities, and 18.3 are personal, garden and farm staff.

Non-official expenditure covers the salary costs of 7.6 full-time equivalent personal staff, including personal secretaries, chefs and valets. In addition, there are 10.7 full-time equivalent estate, farm, garden and stable staff.
There are chauffeurs, valets, butlers, gardens and estate workers that are part of the 124 but these are not personal staff.

These are probably the people that work during banquets or receptions at Clarence House or Kensington Palace.
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  #2558  
Old 06-29-2016, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Charles has a personal staff of 124, including three valets. No doubt many of them are estate workers/gardeners keeping the gardens of Highgrove pristine, however I doubt very much that aristocrats, even Dukes, have lived in that sort of style, in and out of Europe, since the Second and probably the First, World War. I'm not talking about monarchs, as they are a different kettle of fish.
Actually, according to the latest review, he has 2.5 FTE valets/dressers so, presumably one dresser for Camilla and one valet plus one part time to fill in. He has 58.8 FTE personal staff (which includes gardeners and housekeepers) and 65.9 FTE official staff. By far the largest number of personal staff are gardeners and estate workers (20.4 FTE).

Again, according to the review, the Prince and Duchess entertained 4,200 guests last year which would account for 4.8 FTE chefs and kitchen porters. 9.9 FTE housekeepers/house managers cover two official homes which still need managing even when Charles and Camilla are away.
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  #2559  
Old 06-29-2016, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Queen Camilla View Post
Someone is twisting the facts.

Charles does not have a personal staff of 124.

There are only 18 personal staff that work for the entire Wales family which includes Charles, Camilla, William, Catherine and Harry.

The 124 people work for the various charities or for the offices of the entire Wales family.

From the Annual Review released a few days ago.
And the above makes my point - the reality isn't really that important, it's the perception that counts. And the perception of Charles as a neo-Edwardian grandee is a strong one with the public at large.
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  #2560  
Old 06-29-2016, 12:36 AM
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Well Harry has no personal staff, as we've seen from the state of his blue suits! We are always being told that the Cambridges have few on their personal staff, perhaps four or five, so the majority of the personal staff are employed by Charles and Camilla. I stated that the majority of the 124 would have been estate workers. The Queen has reportedly complained about Charles's tendency to personal extravagance and she isn't one to complain for nothing.

How the DM showed the numbers from official figures.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ks-plants.html
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