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  #2481  
Old 06-11-2016, 09:39 AM
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The Monarchy under Charles

I agree having the Queen abdicate doesn't help Charles. There is no tradition of abdication in the UK like there is in the Netherlands. The Queen after 60 + years on the throne isn't going to give it all up now to become Princess Elizabeth Duchesses of Edinburgh again.

There are 3 Kings in waiting so the UK will be seeing Kings on throne for years to come.

The Queen was old enough to see what her uncle's abdication did to her father. She isn't going to do that to her son . I am reminded of the line in The Kings Speech where Bertie says every other King's succeed a dead person but his predecessor is very much alive.

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  #2482  
Old 06-11-2016, 10:34 AM
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There is absolutely no reason whatsoever for HM to abdicate and the hell will freeze over before we see her abdicate. Charles is more than ready to be King. The nation knows he's more than ready to be King and the BRF have been planning for a very long time what will happen when that time comes. They leave absolutely nothing to chance.

Judging by the turnout today in London for Trooping the Color, the monarchy in the UK is very strong with a very beloved monarch on the throne and a very well prepared heir to the throne as her right hand man whenever she needs him.
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  #2483  
Old 06-11-2016, 10:49 AM
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The admission of the DoC to the Privy Council, bodes well for those of us who want her to be called by the LEGAL Title she will have once the PoW accedes...

Perhaps it is time the Palace announced that she will henceforth be known as HRH the Princess of Wales ? It is high time, and the use of the correct Title now, will go a LONG way to ensuring the use of the correct Title, when the time comes..
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  #2484  
Old 06-11-2016, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
Perhaps it is time the Palace announced that she will henceforth be known as HRH the Princess of Wales ? It is high time, and the use of the correct Title now, will go a LONG way to ensuring the use of the correct Title, when the time comes..
With being Charles' wife, actually she had her choice of what she would be known as and opted for the oldest title that Charles has which is the Duke of Cornwall. She has worked hard for the past 11 years establishing a niche and a role as The Duchess of Cornwall and to change it now would be a unnecessary thing IMO.

I do agree that with the move of admitting Camilla to the Privy Counsel, it seems to be establishing a momentum for Camilla to become Queen Consort upon Charles' accession to the throne. That's a good thing in my book.
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  #2485  
Old 06-11-2016, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
The admission of the DoC to the Privy Council, bodes well for those of us who want her to be called by the LEGAL Title she will have once the PoW accedes...

Perhaps it is time the Palace announced that she will henceforth be known as HRH the Princess of Wales ? It is high time, and the use of the correct Title now, will go a LONG way to ensuring the use of the correct Title, when the time comes..
Well said !

Camilla for Queen, says Camilla Tominey | Camilla Tominey | Columnists | Comment | Daily Express
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  #2486  
Old 06-11-2016, 12:14 PM
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Camilla did the right thing by choosing to be known as the Duchess of Cornwall. There's no need for her to be called The Princess of Wales. A change in her title would set back years of PR work in getting people to accept her. They are on the right path.

No matter if she's The Princess Consort or Queen Consort, her job will be to help shape Charles's Accession.
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  #2487  
Old 06-11-2016, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
I agree having the Queen abdicate doesn't help Charles. There is no tradition of abdication in the UK like there is in the Netherlands. The Queen after 60 + years on the throne isn't going to give it all up now to become Princess Elizabeth Duchesses of Edinburgh again. [...]
Speaking about traditions:

Who would ever have thought the King of the Belgians to abdicate? Who would ever have thought that the King of Spain would abdicate? Who would ever have thought that the Pope would abdicate?.

In Belgium, in Spain, and at the Holy See, with the former Sovereigns still around, the new situation seems adapted in the shortest possible time without any problem. As was always problemless in the "abdication-monarchies" Luxembourg and the Netherlands.

I am sure Queen Elizabeth will never abdicate. But I was equally sure that a Pope would never abdicate. Morale of the story: only one person knows, and that is the Queen herself.
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  #2488  
Old 06-11-2016, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
I agree having the Queen abdicate doesn't help Charles. There is no tradition of abdication in the UK like there is in the Netherlands. The Queen after 60 + years on the throne isn't going to give it all up now to become Princess Elizabeth Duchesses of Edinburgh again.

There are 3 Kings in waiting so the UK will be seeing Kings on throne for years to come.

The Queen was old enough to see what her uncle's abdication did to her father. She isn't going to do that to her son . I am reminded of the line in The Kings Speech where Bertie says every other King's succeed a dead person but his predecessor is very much alive.

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If the Queen were to abdicate it wouldn't be like David's, and I'm sure she knows that.

It's one thing for a young(-ish) individual to be pushed into voluntarily abdicating and thus forcing someone who wasn't ever expecting to be on the throne to take it. It's another thing for someone who is considerably older to abdicate as a form of retirement and opening the way for someone who has spent their entire life preparing for the throne. We have seen this work in the Netherlands and Luxembourg, and in a manner in Lietchtenstein and the Papacy, and I think that's what the abdications in Spain and Belgium were presented as.

The problem with abdication in Britain at this time though is two-fold, as I've said elsewhere, and as Royal Norway has pointed out here. First, a 70-something monarch abdicating in favour of a 40-something heir isn't going to result in demands for another abdication immediately. A 90 year old monarch abdicating in favour of a 67 year old heir is going to cause a demand for the new monarch to abdicate in favour of the new younger heir.

Secondly, look at the BRF as it stands. We have the Queen, who is beloved. We have Charles and Camilla, who... As much as I personally like them, I recognize that it's probably a stretch to say they're more than accepted by the public. Then we have William and Kate who are shyer and more reserved on a public scene and haven't yet developed the working relationship with the public that older royals have. This has led to accusations of them being work shy and reluctant royals.

So what happens if the Queen abdicates? Well, first of all it makes it clear that an abdication is still possible in Britain. It makes people question why they have to accept Charles as King and Camilla as his consort (there will certainly be no accepting her as Queen if QEII is still alive), especially when many are still under the mistaken idea that a divorce cannot be monarch (after all, remember David?). Then there is increasing demand for Charles to abdicate, and whether or not he does so there'll be closer scrutiny of William and Kate as prospective monarchs. And if they're not forced into going full time by the circumstances, or if they are but they have a learning curve, or if they don't foster a better relationship with the media? How long do you think it'll be until major newspapers are questioning their ability to be King and Queen? And what happens then?

The Queen should be able to abdicate if she so desires. She has served her realms as monarch for more than 60 years, and is the longest reigning and longest lived British monarch ever. If she wanted retirement then she has more than earned it. But the sad fact is that Britain is not in a position where she could abdicate. Doing so would be disastrous for Charles' reign, as it would cause him to be plagued by demands for an abdication, could be disastrous for William's reign, and could even spell the end of the monarchy in Britain itself (after all, what happens when the beloved 90-something monarch abdicates, and you don't like the 60-something replacement so he abdicated, and the media turns against the 30-something replacement, and the next in line is still in diapers?).

As for the other realms... Who the monarch is has nothing to do with Republicanism in the Commonwealth Realms outside of Britain. It more has to do with the idea of foreign rule and whether or not the monarch and the RF are perceived as representing Australia, the Bahamas, Jamaica, Canada, etc. And given as each one of them would have to pass legislature to allow for an abdication at all, abdication would actually further republican movements. Why pass the legislature to allow a 90 year old foreign woman to abdicate in favour of her 67 year old son when you can pass the legislature to end the relationship with the monarchy instead?
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  #2489  
Old 06-11-2016, 01:27 PM
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Camilla did the right thing by choosing to be known as the Duchess of Cornwall. There's no need for her to be called The Princess of Wales. A change in her title would set back years of PR work in getting people to accept her. They are on the right path.

No matter if she's The Princess Consort or Queen Consort, her job will be to help shape Charles's Accession.

Exactly so. I highly doubt Camilla (for all her sins) was seeking a glorious title...I have always figured she was quite comfortable being the Duchess of Cornwall.


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  #2490  
Old 06-11-2016, 01:38 PM
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Exactly so. I highly doubt Camilla (for all her sins) was seeking a glorious title...I have always figured she was quite comfortable being the Duchess of Cornwall.


LaRae
The past is the past, but after all that drama went down, Camilla has tried her best to not be seen as stepping on the toes of the late Princess's memory and family. She has gained my respect due to this.
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  #2491  
Old 06-11-2016, 01:42 PM
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The past is the past, but after all that drama went down, Camilla has tried her best to not be seen as stepping on the toes of the late Princess's memory and family. She has gained my respect due to this.
Yes same here. She really has not put a foot wrong since marrying Charles.


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  #2492  
Old 06-11-2016, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Speaking about traditions:

Who would ever have thought the King of the Belgians to abdicate? Who would ever have thought that the King of Spain would abdicate? Who would ever have thought that the Pope would abdicate?.

In Belgium, in Spain, and at the Holy See, with the former Sovereigns still around, the new situation seems adapted in the shortest possible time without any problem. As was always problemless in the "abdication-monarchies" Luxembourg and the Netherlands.

I am sure Queen Elizabeth will never abdicate. But I was equally sure that a Pope would never abdicate. Morale of the story: only one person knows, and that is the Queen herself.
You can't compare these people with the the Queen.

Benedict - He had said at least 3 times that there could be a possibility for him to resign, and many of the experts were not surprised at all.

Albert - Neither I or many of those who follow the Belgian royal family were surprised that he abdicated.

Juan Carlos - He did not want to abdicate, but had to because of his stupidity. And it was not just the last two years he was unpopular. He struggled with his popularity in a period in 2000s as well, and I was not surprised at all when he abdicated.



Ish, thank you for that brilliant post!

I wish I could write like you. But because of my dyslexia, I can't.
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  #2493  
Old 06-11-2016, 04:52 PM
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I adore Camilla and I hope she is known as Queen and not Princess Consort. But I equally don't want her to suddenly start being known as Princess of Wales. She has made the title Duchess of Cornwall her own. There have been other Princesses of Wales but I think only Camilla has stood out by being known as Duchess of Cornwall, whatever the reason for it.
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  #2494  
Old 06-11-2016, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
There is absolutely no reason whatsoever for HM to abdicate and the hell will freeze over before we see her abdicate. Charles is more than ready to be King. The nation knows he's more than ready to be King and the BRF have been planning for a very long time what will happen when that time comes. They leave absolutely nothing to chance.

Judging by the turnout today in London for Trooping the Color, the monarchy in the UK is very strong with a very beloved monarch on the throne and a very well prepared heir to the throne as her right hand man whenever she needs him.
While I support abdication as an alternative, I agree that QEII is not likely to abdicate.
Should she experience health issues that make it impossible for her to continue in her current role then Charles would become the Prince regent.
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  #2495  
Old 06-11-2016, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by VictoriaB View Post
I adore Camilla and I hope she is known as Queen and not Princess Consort. But I equally don't want her to suddenly start being known as Princess of Wales. She has made the title Duchess of Cornwall her own. There have been other Princesses of Wales but I think only Camilla has stood out by being known as Duchess of Cornwall, whatever the reason for it.
I agree, I think ti was right given the circumstances for her not to use the Title Princess of wales, it was a nod of respect to Diana and their past problems. But I think she'll be queen when the time comes and that is right, but I dont think now, she should take on the title of POW
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  #2496  
Old 06-11-2016, 05:28 PM
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The PoW will be used again. When William is invested with the title of Prince of Wales. Catherine will automatically become The Princess of Wales.
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  #2497  
Old 06-11-2016, 09:55 PM
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"Her life, her whole life, whether it be long or short." I think there are far more things that could be discussed regarding Charles reign besides whether or not there is a possibility that it could start while his mother is still alive. What of his current interest will be taken on by the government in a stronger why, such as the environment?
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  #2498  
Old 06-11-2016, 10:25 PM
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I have a strong hunch that any involvement that Charles has as King will be through trusts and patronages rather than through the government. In fact, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if what we know now as The Prince's Trust and his other various interests get a cosmetic makeover such as The King's Trust etc.

Charles is a man that likes to remain active and always doing something but I think he's wise and astute enough to know not to step over the boundaries and/or step on toes.
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  #2499  
Old 06-11-2016, 11:05 PM
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I think Charles will do some things similar to his mother. Also, his job will be to look after the estates, as The Queen do.
It is reassuring to know that King Charles III will not perform royal duties the complete opposite of Elizabeth II. Would this be considered keeping with tradition?
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  #2500  
Old 06-11-2016, 11:10 PM
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It is reassuring to know that King Charles III will not perform royal duties the complete opposite of Elizabeth II. Would this be considered keeping with tradition?
Charles is pretty much very well experienced in the royal profession. Duty and service is how they operate.
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