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  #2281  
Old 01-29-2016, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
It looks as if the speculation about a streamlined monarchy under Charles is correct, unless his palace contacts are lying through their teeth to Richard Palmer. He has reiterated to Cepe and to others that he's been told that the Jubilee balcony and Royal barge scenarios were no accidents.
We've known that for a while now. Plan is already in place.
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  #2282  
Old 01-29-2016, 11:12 AM
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I think this thread should be retitled 'The changes the monarchy will go through under Charles and William.'

I do not see the monarchy changing much under Charles because most members of the current BRF will continue to work for the BRF during Charles' reign.

It will be greatly reduced by William.
I think William does not want to do the bread and butter work of monarchy. He only wants sports or celebrity related events or international tours or high profile events. IMO, he is not interested in visiting the counties and cities of the U.K. to open or visit a festival or a business.

In one year, Charles and Camilla visited 42 counties and 75 cities, towns and villages in the U.K.

The Royal Family is also moving away from being patron or member of every club, organization, association, hospital, school, etc.


Several stories have been published recently about the number of charities/organization that will lose their patronage when the Queen and/or Philip passes.

Most of the 'real charites' have already been passed on the next generation.

The Duke of Edinburgh's Award is being transition to Edward and Sophie.

The Royal Jubilee Trusts
The Queen is Patron
These two separate charitable Jubilee Trusts are managed by The Prince's Trust.

Save The Children UK
The Queen is Patron and Princess Anne is President.
Princess Anne will probably be made Patron.

The British Show Jumping Association (BSJA)
The Queen is Patron and Princess is Vice Patron.
Princess Anne will probably be made Patron

Battersea Dogs & Cats Home
The Queen is Patron and Prince Michael is President.
Camilla will probably become Patron as she has been working with the charity for several years.

Barnardo's
The Queen is Patron and Camilla is President.
Camilla will probably be made Patron

National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children (NSPCC)
The Queen is Patron and Sophie is President.
Sophie will probably take over as Patron.

Most of Prince Philip's patronages are just clubs and organizations and not charites.

http://www.royal.gov.uk/Charitiesand...atronages.aspx
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  #2283  
Old 01-29-2016, 12:52 PM
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When I think about the Monarchy under Charles I am intrigued about how Charles will deal with the resources and set up for the Monarch which is different than what he has been dealing with for decades as the Prince of Wales and Duke of Cornwall. So when Charles becomes King he will take over the Duchy of Lancaster and will have to fund the working royals, other than those funded by the Duchy of Cornwall, from that purse, the Sovereign Grant and his personal wealth.

According to royalcentral.co.uk, in 2014 the Duchy of Lancaster's income was 16m. According to royalcentral.co.uk, the Duchy of Cornwall's income was just shy of 20m for the year ending in 3/31/2015.

Currently the Queen's resources (Duchy of Lancaster, the Sovereign Grant and her personal wealth) fund her, Prince Philip, their children other than Charles, and her cousins who are working royals. I am not completely sure but I think that is 11 people

Charles' resources (Duchy of Cornwall and his personal wealth) fund him, the Duchess of Cornwall, his children and grandchildren for a total of 5 adults and 2 children.

When Charles becomes King his resources will be the Duchy of Lancaster, the Sovereign Grant and his personal wealth and from that he will have to fully support himself, Camilla and Harry and his family. I doubt if he will have to provide personal support to his father (if living) and his siblings because presumably they have inherited resources and will get a substantial bump from the Queen's bequests but he will have to fund their offices. He would also have to fund the offices of his mother's surviving cousins who are working royals. I assume that will be ten people give or take.

It will be interesting to see how Charles deals with transition from Duke of Cornwall/Prince of Wales and the resources and obligations that came with that role versus the resources and obligations that come with being King.
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  #2284  
Old 01-29-2016, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by DaFluffs View Post
Thanks for all the info on how royal visits are set up.

I stand corrected on the theorem that the royals abuse the priviledge.

This is a cool Forum!
Yes it is DaFluffs.
I've learned so much about how the various monarchies around the globe function by visiting TRF. IMO it is one of the best features of the forum because of the great variety of posters who happen to live in nations with constitutional or absolute monarchies. They can share the facts regarding the similarities and differences between the royal houses.
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  #2285  
Old 01-29-2016, 07:37 PM
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What I worry about more when Charles ascends the throne is whether republicanism will make strides early in the new reign. Yes, I know the monarchy in the UK is rock solid and riding high in opinion polls at the moment (and in the last few years.) However, the Queen has reached iconic stature in the last five years or so, elderly, on the throne so long that few can remember a time before she was there, and rarely criticised.

That isn't so with Charles. He will be a man nearing or in his 70's when he does reach the throne so won't have the advantage of any youthful glamour. For many years he has come under press criticism for his various causes, perceived 'interference' with political decisions etc and, of course, remembrances of that other matter. I'm not stating whether all these are right or wrong, simply that these perceptions in the public mind have drastically affected Charles's popularity with the public.

He, and his wife, regularly come behind his mother and the three young senior royals in opinion polls. Yes, much of it is a natural attraction towards the young and attractive, but some of this opinion is driven by Charles's image- a hard worker yes but also a rather eccentric 'meddler,' who treated his first wife badly. Again, I'm not saying these are correct impressions of Charles, just that they are out there.

While I'm not saying, AT ALL, that Charles should, as a result, resign from the succession and take himself off into the sunset, the fact that he is not a particularly popular public figure has made several keen republicans look forward to his accession.

The Queen is inviolate. We know that, yet there is a sense, I think, that republicans are waiting for the end of her reign and then the gloves will be off. Not just in Australia, where PM Turnbull has stated that there will be no referendum on republicanism while the Queen lives, but elsewhere in the Commonwealth and in the UK as well.
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  #2286  
Old 01-29-2016, 07:55 PM
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My thoughts as well Curryong you have said what I have been worried about for a while. Not good for us Australians that don't want a republic if it all comes down to the fact that we don't like Charles !!


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  #2287  
Old 01-29-2016, 08:02 PM
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I do sometimes wonder if people are short sighted in going for a 'stream lined' RF. Charles is widely said to have snubbed China by not going to the Beijing games, at the time it was said he wasn't going because Anne was and she was part of the IOC. How would that play in the future if Charles had sidelined Anne in the RF - "King Charles snubs China by sending the sister he cast aside". Really? Sometimes its much better to have a wide range of Royals with interests and links to organisations to call upon.

Equally whilst many people might not follow the work of Charles' siblings I think if he sidelined them or snubbed them the media would make a big deal out of it. Like how they say Charles couldn't cope with Diana being more popular than him or William & Kate being more popular than him.

I can see the Kents and Gloucesters doing less work or in effect, 'retiring'. As they become further related from the monarch its not to be unexpected. I think there would be a role for Charles' siblings doing work for local charities and organisations and their patronages. This surely can't cost that much money and would give them a role in the RF but one that isn't too high profile. That would leave high profile events, State Banquets, Opening of Parliament maybe Trooping the Colour to Charles and his immediate family as well as State Visits and overseas tours. In effect IMO Charles and his family should represent Britain internationally and at important events, his siblings representing charities and organisations and the good work they do.
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  #2288  
Old 01-29-2016, 08:11 PM
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I definitely think that when Charles becomes King that there will be countries that will leave the Commonwealth or change their status from having the Monarch as its head of state to a republic, but I don't think that will be a reflection on Charles' unpopularity, it is just how things will be, just like what is currently in place is different than what was in place at the turn of the 20th century or even the mid-point of the 20th century after the Second World War.
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  #2289  
Old 01-29-2016, 08:28 PM
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I doubt whether any countries will leave the Commonwealth. There is a sense however, that many are holding off talking of republicanism while a much respected elderly monarch and head of the Commonwealth still lives. After that, who knows! In a way it is not a reflection on Charles as this might well happen at the end of a very long reign anyway. In another way it is, as if Charles was extremely popular all over the Commonwealth no changes would probably be mooted. As a Australian monarchist I'm often confronted with "Well, the Queen, yes. Charles and Camilla? No thanks!" Fair? No, but it is a common reaction.

However, I didn't want my post to be about that really, just musing about what the British people's reaction to their new King will be and whether republican forces are just licking their lips and waiting in the wings for the new reign.
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  #2290  
Old 01-29-2016, 08:39 PM
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When the Queen ascended the throne she was Queen of over 50 nations. She has 16 left and may very well have even fewer to pass onto Charles. I wouldn't be surprised is either Jamaica and/or Barbados make that decision this year - so leaving her with possibly only 14 from over 50.

If some others decide to become republics then it won't be because of him but because this has been a steady process since 1947 when India and Pakistan became republics rather than have George VI as the Head of State.

I don't see any countries leaving the Commonwealth. It is a growing organisation with nations joining now who were never part of the British Empire at all.

Whether Charles will be Head of the Commonwealth is a different question and I can see them ditching the idea of the British monarch being the symbolic Head of the Commonwealth. It should be noted that The Queen doesn't actually attend the business sessions of CHOHM for instance, often having left the meeting before they start their official discussions.

As for the Kent's - they are already slowing down due to illness over recent years. The Duke is already 80 and Alexandra will be 80 later this year.

The Gloucester's however are the same age basically as Charles. To say that they are 'too old' to continue, or should 'retire' could easily backfire as people would they say 'if the Duke of Gloucester is too old to carry out royal duties' then so is Charles (who is only 4 years younger - with the Duchesses in between the two ages).

Unless Charles is going to completely cut off everyone other than his own immediate family - sons and their wives - then he will have to tread carefully or it could backfire on him. I suspect that main reason why this idea has been floated (and not by Charles specifically mind you but by a minor staffer and then has taken on a status of being a 'fact') is that he doesn't want to have to fund the official duties of the entire family as his mother is doing now. If Charles doesn't pay for the offices and the work of the minor royals - from Andrew down - then these actions can't be done as they aren't cheap. They need staff to organise things, security has to go out days and even weeks in advance to go over the ground and check out everything - places to be visited as well as people to be meet. The costs aren't limited to the getting there and away - that is the minor part of things.
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  #2291  
Old 01-29-2016, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Claude View Post
I definitely think that when Charles becomes King that there will be countries that will leave the Commonwealth or change its status from having the Monarch as its head of state to a republic, but I don't think that will be a reflection on Charles' unpopularity, it is just how things will be, just like what is currently in place is different than what was in place at the turn of the 20th century or even the mid-point of the 20th century after the Second World War.
Well, I want to believe that there will be a honeymoon of sorts when he becomes King. Then, depending on how he handles things, Commonwealth countries may move to change their status.
But, for all we know, Charles may have some great ideas about how to enhance the benefits/value of being a Commonwealth nation. And in the end, whether he is the most charismatic of Kings or not, net value will keep the Commonwealth vital. JMO.
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  #2292  
Old 01-29-2016, 09:03 PM
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Zimbabwe and Gambia are the only 2 countries that have left the Commonwealth on their own accord. Pakistan left but returned. It's not really a common occurrence.


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  #2293  
Old 01-29-2016, 09:21 PM
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I think we will just have to wait and see. Although The Queen has that icon status and a lot of sentimental support, there is that "The king is dead; long live the king" factor that shouldn't be discounted. Edward VII was, and had the reputation of being, a long-time playboy before his mother's death, but as soon as he became king he rose to the occasion and became a popular king. Perhaps after an appropriate period of mourning, and especially after a coronation, with its mystical elements and anointment, Charles will be transformed into "The King" in the eyes of the majority of the British people, and his popularity will increase because of what he is, not just who he is. And Charles has been coming across as a content and affable man in recent years. He could become very popular. Or not. Society has changed in many ways since Edward VII became king.

And we also have to wait and see what happens under Charles before we can predict what William will do. Charles will be The King and he will have his opportunity to make his changes before his son gets his turn. William has to wait, and the monarchy he inherits may be a very different one from the one we see now.

I think that if the Royals stop doing the ribbon-cutting stuff and attending county fairs, etc., they could lose popularity. These are people who occupy the position they hold solely because they just happened to be born to certain parents. It's totally random. But they are tolerated at least partly because they dress well and smile a lot and shake hands and arrive in smart cars. They provide a particular sort of entertainment. If they stop doing that, and withdraw from the activities that give the public a personal connection with royalty by having regular contact with them in their backyards, and they act more like businessmen, running charitable corporations from behind desks and giving the occasional speech at fancy fund-raising events, only being seen at the big events, more people might start to lose interest and wonder why these jobs are being done by people who inherited them rather than people who earned them.
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  #2294  
Old 01-29-2016, 10:33 PM
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I have a feeling that the man who created the Prince's Trust and who has prepared for this job his entire life will surprise people with how good at it he is. I imagine that with all this time to prepare, the transition will be much smoother than it was for say, the Queen, who inherited so tragically young.


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  #2295  
Old 01-29-2016, 10:48 PM
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I am sure Charles will perform his duties well. However the Britain that he will head as King will be extraordinarily different to the one the Queen inherited in 1952. The world (and Empire/Commonwealth) has changed beyond belief, as have the attitudes towards royalty. Republicanism wasn't even spoken of in 1952.

Let me put my position clearly. I believe (and hope) that the monarchy is deeply entenched in British life and will survive. However, I do believe that republicans in Britain are taking heart from the fact that a very long reign is now entering its twilight years and that an iconic Queen will be succeeded as sovereign by a man who is not, for various reasons, a terribly popular Royal. Charles would be regarded by them as a public figure who has some baggage that can be attacked and made use of for the cause, thereby making people question the institution of monarchy.
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  #2296  
Old 01-29-2016, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
Zimbabwe and Gambia are the only 2 countries that have left the Commonwealth on their own accord. Pakistan left but returned. It's not really a common occurrence.
In my previous comment I stated leave the Commonwealth or change its status to republic (but remain in the Commonwealth). I guess I should get clarification/confirmation on what it means to be a republic and yet a member of the Commonwealth. To me it seems like for those countries that are republics being part of the Commonwealth is comparable to other amalgamations of independent countries with some form of common bond like the G-7, NAFTA, the EU, etc., and therefore the monarch, except for perhaps the odd ceremonial event, is not really relevant to that group.



Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmirerUS View Post
Well, I want to believe that there will be a honeymoon of sorts when he becomes King. Then, depending on how he handles things, Commonwealth countries may move to change their status.
But, for all we know, Charles may have some great ideas about how to enhance the benefits/value of being a Commonwealth nation. And in the end, whether he is the most charismatic of Kings or not, net value will keep the Commonwealth vital. JMO.
I don't think that the issue is how good a King Charles will be, it's about these countries feeling that their head of state should be Australian, Canadian or whatever applies and not British residing in Britain. I think that the mind-set is already there in large quantities but changes have not been made out of inertia and sentimentality.

I don't think that England will become a republic and therefore the current royal family will continue to exist but the Monarch's realm will shrink.
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  #2297  
Old 01-29-2016, 11:30 PM
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Canada would be the last to leave honestly. There isn't much if any real drive for us to become a republic. Other than Quebec's attempts to leave. Most Canadians do think we have a Canadian as our head of state, our Prime Minister who we elect. At least in western Canada there is no real feeling that the queen is anything but a figure head on our money, and the GG you would be lucky if everyone could even name the current.

I think there is also the sense we benefit a lot from our relationship with them. If you compare our two main allies, the US and the UK, we certainly benefit more from the UK then our one sided NAFTA which benefits one country and not the other two.
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  #2298  
Old 02-01-2016, 08:38 PM
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I think that given the choice, most people would prefer a smaller RF with fewer ribbon cutters, to a larger family, even if the overall cost was the same.
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  #2299  
Old 02-01-2016, 10:13 PM
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I think that given the choice, most people would prefer a smaller RF..., to a larger family, even if the overall cost was the same.
That's because most people think they're paying for ALL the Royal Family, when that is not actually true. And the cost, I believe, for the Royal Family is what, about a pound a year per person? Good value for money, IMO.
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  #2300  
Old 02-02-2016, 07:07 PM
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It's peanuts compared to what the US spends on current and past presidents. The perks don't stop when they are out of office. Lady Bird Johnson had Secret Service protection for over 60 years due to her advanced age.
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