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  #2181  
Old 09-21-2015, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
It is very unwise for Charles not to seek help from his siblings, especially given his somewhat unreliable sons.
Unreliable in what sense?


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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
It is very unwise for Charles not to seek help from his siblings, especially given his somewhat unreliable sons. Edward/Sophie and Anne would be valuable assets to Charles' reign, although Andrew and his daughters could be either neutral or a liability.
I do not believe there has been any indication that Charles does not intend to continue to support and work with his siblings when he is King, quite like HM currently does. Are you privy to anything that suggests so?

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And I had thought Edward was being groomed to take over managing the private estates of Sandringham and Balmoral taking over from his father.
I would be surprised that would ever have been the case. I think it might be either William or Harry who take that role on.
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  #2182  
Old 09-21-2015, 11:42 AM
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Edward is highly involved with the Duke of Edinburgh Award Scheme. He would continue the program in the future.

Balmoral and Sandringham have been passed down through the monarchal line. That trend will likely to continue do to the tax benefits. So it highly unlikely the management would go to an indirect line Royal such as Edward or Harry.


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  #2183  
Old 09-23-2015, 06:16 PM
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After seeing the success over the last couple of years of the new monarchs in Belgium, Spain and the Netherlands in slimming down their royal families, I am convinced for the first time that when Charles is King, he should follow suit, and limit the working family to him own immediate family. I struggle to see Prince Andrew or the Wessexes as any more senior or important to the Kents and Gloucesters, and many would argue against the need for the cousins.
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  #2184  
Old 11-03-2015, 02:09 PM
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I think based on recent moves by the BRF the family is not planning on downsizing.
They are training the next generation.

Beatrice is now accompanying her father.
Eugenie is back in the U.K. and attended an event with the Queen.
Sophie is taking her children along to a few engagements.

In ten years times or sooner, during State Banquets, we will see Beatrice and Eugenie.

Princess Beatrice will take over Princess Alexandra's seat and may take over some of her charities.
Princess Eugenie will take over The Duchess of Gloucester's seat and may take over some of her charities.
Louise and James may replace their parents or may start attending State Banquets with their parents.
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  #2185  
Old 11-03-2015, 02:36 PM
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I think based on recent moves by the BRF the family is not planning on downsizing.
They are training the next generation.

Beatrice is now accompanying her father.
Eugenie is back in the U.K. and attended an event with the Queen.
Sophie is taking her children along to a few engagements.

In ten years times or sooner, during State Banquets, we will see Beatrice and Eugenie.

Princess Beatrice will take over Princess Alexandra's seat and may take over some of her charities.
Princess Eugenie will take over The Duchess of Gloucester's seat and may take over some of her charities.
Louise and James may replace their parents or may start attending State Banquets with their parents.
I can't see Louise and James doing any engagements, except perhaps for James and the Duke of Edinburgh's Award simply by default as it will be his title. At the time of their parents wedding it was announced they would not be styled as HRH to relieve them of the burdens of royals styles and royal life. I think that was a subtle hint that Edward's children will never be active royals. For the York sisters it's a different matter as they use their HRH style but many believe they should have "normal" jobs and not be active royals. Only time will tell what becomes of Beatrice and Eugenie.

We never see Peter and Zara attending engagements at Buckingham Palace with their mother; this will be very much like Louise and James. They will attend family events and Trooping the Colour etc. but I think that will be it for their "royal" life. I am sure we will see photos of them attending night clubs etc. in their teenage and adult years, just as we do with Zara and co. It's sadly part of the media pack at present and it's not going to change for the Wessex children. They will always have some level of "fame" simply because of who their grandmother is.
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  #2186  
Old 11-03-2015, 04:44 PM
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James and Louise are never going to be full or part time royals because they'll never be officially royals. We'll see them in a position similar to the Phillips or the Lascelles, but that's it.

Beatrice and Eugenie is another story altogether.
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  #2187  
Old 11-06-2015, 12:11 PM
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There should never be a need for Beatrice and Eugenie to be working royals, and the same for Louise and James.

It would probably be beneficial for the York girls to drop their titles at some point so they can live private lives.
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  #2188  
Old 11-06-2015, 01:20 PM
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I think "need" is the wrong word. With the amount of engagements done by royals at the minute and the amount of royals that we are due to "lose", the remaining royals are either going to have to pick up a lot of the slack or the UK and the commonwealth are going to see less and less of them.
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  #2189  
Old 11-06-2015, 01:23 PM
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James and Louise are never going to be full or part time royals because they'll never be officially royals. We'll see them in a position similar to the Phillips or the Lascelles, but that's it.

Beatrice and Eugenie is another story altogether.
Never say never, but the odds are very long. Very, very. And it's just my opinion, but I don't see Charles as being strongly on team York Girls. He is not often seen interacting with their Father, much less them. There's just no eveidence - and all is speculation...
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  #2190  
Old 11-07-2015, 12:51 AM
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Never say never, but the odds are very long. Very, very. And it's just my opinion, but I don't see Charles as being strongly on team York Girls. He is not often seen interacting with their Father, much less them. There's just no eveidence - and all is speculation...

That is true - never say never. It isn't likely to happen, but it is possible.

Regarding the Yorks... I could see it going either way. If they want it there's a real possibility for a role for them. The working part of the family is aging, the Queen, DoE, the Kents and Gloucesters, Charles, Camilla, and Anne all being at or past the age of retirement. They're not going to continue on forever, and William, Harry, and Kate are only 3 people. If you add in the fact that Andrew, Edward, and Sophie are likely to start slowing down (if not outright retiring) before George and Charlotte begin undertaking full time duties it will leave an opening for either, or both, York sisters to undertake official duties.

I personally think that during Charles' reign we're going to see his mother's cousins retire and his brothers and sister-in-law step back as they reach or pass the retirement age (I don't think Anne will anytime soon, but Anne's a different breed from Andrew and Edward), with the resulting void being filled by the younger generation, including possibly the Yorks.
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  #2191  
Old 11-07-2015, 02:18 AM
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I think there is likely to be a role for two Royal Princesses of that generation in Charles' reign. Perhaps not a large role, but they are HRHs, and born Royals, and they might be pressed into service as the older HRHs get even older and then die.

Harry might not marry for years. At the moment the only future working HRHs are George and Charlotte and allowing for them to go to university and work for a few years, bearing in mind that George, at least, is likely to go into one of the services, we are looking at at least a quarter of a century before they will be on line as working royals. Any children Harry may have would come on line even later. In the meantime, I can definitely see spots opening up for Beatrice and Eugenie.
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  #2192  
Old 11-07-2015, 03:54 AM
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In all monarchies there is a trend of downsizing, focusing on the head of state. One can ask why the Duke and Duchess of Gloucester, the Duke and Duchess of Kent, Princess Alexandra, Prince and Princess Michael, etc. have to play a role during a State Visit? Imagine that Mr Obama takes his cousins, nephews and nieces with him from the Obama family?

The royal family is not that small. Imagine the present royal couple has passed away, then the core royal family will have 11 persons, not counting the younger generation

The King
The Queen (a.k.a. The Princess Consort)
The Prince of Wales
The Princess of Wales
Prince George of Wales
Princess Charlotte of Wales
The Prince Henry
The Princess Henry
The Princess Royal
Admiral Lawrence
Mr Peter Phillips
Mrs Peter Phillips
Mrs Michael Tindall
Mr Michael TIndall
The Duke of York
Princess Beatrice of York
Princess Eugenie of York
The Duke of Edinburgh
The Duchess of Edinburgh

Princess Louise of Edinburgh
Prince James of Edinburgh
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  #2193  
Old 11-07-2015, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
I think "need" is the wrong word. With the amount of engagements done by royals at the minute and the amount of royals that we are due to "lose", the remaining royals are either going to have to pick up a lot of the slack or the UK and the commonwealth are going to see less and less of them.
I've always thought Charles has a strategy for how the working royals will be used during his reign and that it might not be as his mother does it.
It all depends on what he sees as the role of the family. Is it to push forward social issues (local farming, endangered species, children with eye diseases, assault victim care, etc.) or is to to appear at the opening of new schools, gardens, businesses? Or something between?
Because time involved in the two is very different. The audience served is different. And above all, press coverage is very different. As press coverage can sway opinions about the monarchy, I think Charles is wise to consider this.
I love the Kents and the Gloucester's - but you can argue that much the event work they do does not count for much except at a local level. Even there, they are not a huge draw or influence on opinion. Even Anne, on her 5 events a day in the country outings garners little public press.
So I think the focus of as well the number and locations of events will change in Charles reign. JMO.
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  #2194  
Old 11-07-2015, 01:08 PM
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I would say more than likely king ,queen, prince of wales, Princess of wales, Prince George, Princess Charlotte, Prince Henry and then his wife and children of both William and Henry. These will be official. Then the others maybe when the full family is required.
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  #2195  
Old 11-07-2015, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by AdmirerUS View Post
I've always thought Charles has a strategy for how the working royals will be used during his reign and that it might not be as his mother does it.
It all depends on what he sees as the role of the family. Is it to push forward social issues (local farming, endangered species, children with eye diseases, assault victim care, etc.) or is to to appear at the opening of new schools, gardens, businesses? Or something between?
Because time involved in the two is very different. The audience served is different. And above all, press coverage is very different. As press coverage can sway opinions about the monarchy, I think Charles is wise to consider this.
I love the Kents and the Gloucester's - but you can argue that much the event work they do does not count for much except at a local level. Even there, they are not a huge draw or influence on opinion. Even Anne, on her 5 events a day in the country outings garners little public press.
So I think the focus of as well the number and locations of events will change in Charles reign. JMO.
The press coverage isn't because of what they're doing though, it's because of who they are - the Duke of Kent could do the Walking Wounded and still wouldn't receive the same kind of press coverage as Harry does simply because he doesn't have the same star power at this point (although I'd argue that if an 80 year old man who's had a stroke in the not-too-distant past did a trek to the South Pole with a group of veterans he would deserve more press coverage and praise than Harry got).

I do think we're going to continue to see Charles, William, Catherine, and Harry very closely involved with key organizations that are important to them, but at the same time I think we're also going to continue to see the more routine run of the mill type appearances - showing up at schools and touring businesses and the like. It's important to do the long running things with organizations that they care about because they push the social issues that the royals care about, but it's also important to do the run of the mill things because it maintains a relationship with the public and promotes British industry.

It's in this role that the Gloucesters, Kents and Anne have become very important, as by doing so many of those run of the mill type engagements they leave the royals with more star power free to do more with the key organizations. I think we're going to see more of this in the future - I mean, if you think about it, the DoE has been involved in his key organizations for many years - the Duke of Edinburgh's Award goes back to 1956 - while also doing the run of the mill things, as has Charles - the Prince's Trust goes back to 1976.
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  #2196  
Old 11-07-2015, 01:32 PM
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Could someone point me to the source of the story that Charles is going to downsize the official BRF?

I'm aware that a couple of royal reporters have said that Charles doesn't think the Queen should personally pay (ie private money) for BRF members to carry out royal duties - that it should come from Sovereign Grant - but that has not been confirmed by CH in any way.

So what's the source?
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  #2197  
Old 11-07-2015, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
In all monarchies there is a trend of downsizing, focusing on the head of state. One can ask why the Duke and Duchess of Gloucester, the Duke and Duchess of Kent, Princess Alexandra, Prince and Princess Michael, etc. have to play a role during a State Visit? Imagine that Mr Obama takes his cousins, nephews and nieces with him from the Obama family?
First of all, you're not comparing like with like here. Obama is an elected official who is only in office for at most 8 years. He has an official role but his wife does not, their children do not, and their extended family do not. Comparing that to a royal family - regardless of which royal family - is ridiculous because they're not similar.

Second of all there is not a trend in all monarchies of downsizing. Some monarchies are deliberately downsizing, yes, but not all monarchies, not even in Europe. There's no downsizing in Belgium, Luxembourg, Monaco, or Liechtenstein. "Downsizing" in Norway and Denmark is exaggerated and not a new trend. The Swedish RF is actually increasing in size. Even the downsizing in Spain and the Netherlands is rather exaggerated. Saying that a monarchy that has been small for the better part of the past century (or, in the case of Spain, since the restoration) is downsizing because it's preventing growth is an exaggeration.

Quote:

The King

The Queen (a.k.a. The Princess Consort)
The Prince of Wales
The Princess of Wales
Prince George of Wales
Princess Charlotte of Wales
The Prince Henry
The Princess Henry
The Princess Royal
Admiral Lawrence
Mr Peter Phillips
Mrs Peter Phillips
Mrs Michael Tindall
Mr Michael TIndall
The Duke of York
Princess Beatrice of York
Princess Eugenie of York
The Duke of Edinburgh
The Duchess of Edinburgh

Princess Louise of Edinburgh
Prince James of Edinburgh
I'd also point out here that of your 11 royals, 1 of them isn't someone who exists at this point (Princess Henry) and 1 isn't a royal (Admiral Lawrence). The Phillips and Tindalls also are not royals, and there is no reason to believe that Louise and James will ever use royal titles.

Add in the fact that in, say 10 years when the Queen, DoE, the Kents, and the Gloucesters are less likely to still be around then Charles, Camilla, and Anne will all be in their 70s, Andrew, Edward, and Sophie will all be in their 60s, and George and Charlotte will not be anywhere near close to being active royals. Which means that the working royal family will consist of 6 people who are (or almost are) at or past the age of retirement, and 3-4 people who are not, assuming the Yorks don't step up. Add in another 10 years and you likely still don't have George and Charlotte being active royals, while Charles, Camilla, and Anne are in their 80s and Andrew, Edward, and Sophie are in their 70s.
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Old 11-07-2015, 02:28 PM
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First of all, you're not comparing like with like here. Obama is an elected official who is only in office for at most 8 years. He has an official role but his wife does not, their children do not, and their extended family do not. Comparing that to a royal family - regardless of which royal family - is ridiculous because they're not similar.

Second of all there is not a trend in all monarchies of downsizing. Some monarchies are deliberately downsizing, yes, but not all monarchies, not even in Europe. There's no downsizing in Belgium, Luxembourg, Monaco, or Liechtenstein. "Downsizing" in Norway and Denmark is exaggerated and not a new trend. The Swedish RF is actually increasing in size. Even the downsizing in Spain and the Netherlands is rather exaggerated. Saying that a monarchy that has been small for the better part of the past century (or, in the case of Spain, since the restoration) is downsizing because it's preventing growth is an exaggeration.



I'd also point out here that of your 11 royals, 1 of them isn't someone who exists at this point (Princess Henry) and 1 isn't a royal (Admiral Lawrence). The Phillips and Tindalls also are not royals, and there is no reason to believe that Louise and James will ever use royal titles.

Add in the fact that in, say 10 years when the Queen, DoE, the Kents, and the Gloucesters are less likely to still be around then Charles, Camilla, and Anne will all be in their 70s, Andrew, Edward, and Sophie will all be in their 60s, and George and Charlotte will not be anywhere near close to being active royals. Which means that the working royal family will consist of 6 people who are (or almost are) at or past the age of retirement, and 3-4 people who are not, assuming the Yorks don't step up. Add in another 10 years and you likely still don't have George and Charlotte being active royals, while Charles, Camilla, and Anne are in their 80s and Andrew, Edward, and Sophie are in their 70s.
Excellent post.
Interesting point is that when the Queen came to the throne, she did not think that she had sufficient #of the family to carry out duties.
There were 7 active at the time (HMQ, DoE, QEQM, PssM, PssMarina, D&Dss Gloucester) which is why she asked Princess Alexandra of Kent to help.

Demand has not diminished.
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Old 11-07-2015, 06:13 PM
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Let's not forget, the Earl of Wessex said they would not use the prince and princess titles, he did not have them removed from his children. He pretty much left that option to them in the future.
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Old 11-07-2015, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by padams2359 View Post
Let's not forget, the Earl of Wessex said they would not use the prince and princess titles, he did not have them removed from his children. He pretty much left that option to them in the future.
Actually, I think this is a pretty smart move on Sophie and Edward's part. We don't have crystal balls that tell us for certain what the future will be and with the move they made with their children, the horses are safe in the barn for now but the barn door is easily opened if they choose to open it.

For all we know, as time passes, the York girls and the Wessex children may be the future Gloucesters and Kents.
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