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  #2081  
Old 02-07-2015, 08:56 AM
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I think the hard part of this interference issue for many of us is that the line between political and not political can be so fine. The line between acceptable and inflammatory even more so.

Cities and towns are indeed finer places with lovely public spaces. But imposing one's own taste on the definition of lovely can be a bit problematic. And influencing public funding of public space design should be out of bounds.

It's one thing to say religions must build bridges and another to tell Christians that they should all be reading the Koran (this has not happened, this is an example) the Vedas, the Tao, etc. (and vice versa).

And frankly, the lines get ever smaller. Charles' task to remain apolitical will be far more difficult than his mother's was.

Personally, I find it interesting that stopping exotic animal trade is IMHO a highly political topic - solutions include the imposition of trade regulation and enforcement. Solutions involve convoluted diplomatic efforts that should lie outside the influence of the Royals. But somehow, this passes our "political sniff test."
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  #2082  
Old 02-07-2015, 07:57 PM
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I think the hard part of this interference issue for many of us is that the line between political and not political can be so fine. The line between acceptable and inflammatory even more so.

Cities and towns are indeed finer places with lovely public spaces. But imposing one's own taste on the definition of lovely can be a bit problematic. And influencing public funding of public space design should be out of bounds.
But routinely decisions on architecture are made by a very, very small group of people. That is what annoys the architects (and the city planners), Charles is impacting their carte blanche as the ultimate 'artists' and 'deciders' regarding public space. I do understand that architects satisfy a customer; I am making a broad point.

It seems to me that Charles serves a function. He speaks for a point of view that is routinely squashed. His views on the 'built environment' are not unique. Many there are who must be grateful that they have a voice through Charles. If Charles doesn't speak up for the historical nature of the English landscape, who will replace him of equal stature? By his saying something he opens up the possibilities. I am reminded of Jackie Kennedy Onassis who went to bat to save Grand Central Station. That is an example of a single individual who made a difference on public architecture. No one complained. She went so far as to engender support. Charles merely states his view, thus widening the debate. A good thing imo.
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  #2083  
Old 02-07-2015, 08:43 PM
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But routinely decisions on architecture are made by a very, very small group of people. That is what annoys the architects (and the city planners), Charles is impacting their carte blanche as the ultimate 'artists' and 'deciders' regarding public space. I do understand that architects satisfy a customer; I am making a broad point.

It seems to me that Charles serves a function. He speaks for a point of view that is routinely squashed. His views on the 'built environment' are not unique. Many there are who must be grateful that they have a voice through Charles. If Charles doesn't speak up for the historical nature of the English landscape, who will replace him of equal stature? By his saying something he opens up the possibilities. I am reminded of Jackie Kennedy Onassis who went to bat to save Grand Central Station. That is an example of a single individual who made a difference on public architecture. No one complained. She went so far as to engender support. Charles merely states his view, thus widening the debate. A good thing imo.
Can I add that every planning decision is open to public debate in the UK. From major works (ie the Shard) to me building an extension.

There are strict planning rules and any planning authority must stick to them. But remember that Charles has no power, and just because he says he doesnt like something, that should not impact on the decision. His influence is not so great that he can alter the rules.

What you read in the press is flim-flam. Sound and fury signifying nothing.


This is the most sensible, honest and pragmatic article on the recent rubbish in the press. Simon Jenkins is a well respected journalist, not a monarchist but he nails it with this as he debunks the recent nonsense.

Our monarchy is powerless and would remain that way under King Charles | Simon Jenkins | Comment is free | The Guardian
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  #2084  
Old 02-07-2015, 08:44 PM
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But routinely decisions on architecture are made by a very, very small group of people. That is what annoys the architects (and the city planners), Charles is impacting their carte blanche as the ultimate 'artists' and 'deciders' regarding public space. I do understand that architects satisfy a customer; I am making a broad point.

It seems to me that Charles serves a function. He speaks for a point of view that is routinely squashed. His views on the 'built environment' are not unique. Many there are who must be grateful that they have a voice through Charles. If Charles doesn't speak up for the historical nature of the English landscape, who will replace him of equal stature? By his saying something he opens up the possibilities. I am reminded of Jackie Kennedy Onassis who went to bat to save Grand Central Station. That is an example of a single individual who made a difference on public architecture. No one complained. She went so far as to engender support. Charles merely states his view, thus widening the debate. A good thing imo.
I don't disagree - but I was speaking to the topic - Charles as Monarch.
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  #2085  
Old 02-07-2015, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by cepe View Post
Can I add that every planning decision is open to public debate in the UK. From major works (ie the Shard) to me building an extension.

There are strict planning rules and any planning authority must stick to them. But remember that Charles has no power, and just because he says he doesnt like something, that should not impact on the decision. His influence is not so great that he can alter the rules.
Same in the US, where there is a planning authority and rules that are not bent for the wealthy and influential.

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Originally Posted by cepe View Post
What you read in the press is flim-flam. Sound and fury signifying nothing.
Good to know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cepe View Post
This is the most sensible, honest and pragmatic article on the recent rubbish in the press. Simon Jenkins is a well respected journalist, not a monarchist but he nails it with this as he debunks the recent nonsense.

Our monarchy is powerless and would remain that way under King Charles | Simon Jenkins | Comment is free | The Guardian
Thanks for this link, cepe. The article is excellent. I especially liked this part -

TEXT: "What critics find scary about Prince Charles is his strength of opinion. He is portrayed as rising in the morning aching with “frightful worries” over climate change, organic vegetables, youth employment, GM foods, urban renewal, modern architecture and fracking. He obsesses over anything sustainable and renewable. He bores for Britain on natural and animal conservation. He remains loyal to the wilder shores of his enthusiasm, to holistic medicine and peace on earth. A one-time champion of the Social Democrat party has gone green fundamentalist. He loves passing causes.

"The Prince of Wales, in other words, is Guardian-lite – which should surely be a source of comfort to his critics on the left. But is not his power irresponsible and unaccountable, they ask. They invert Voltaire, agreeing with what the prince says but denying him the right to say it.

"What is this right denied? The famous “black spider” letters to ministers, which the Guardian justly thought should be in the public domain, are mere letters. They can be torn up – and, I suspect, were. The prince may dislike a plan for the Chelsea barracks, but that was no reason for the council to refuse it. Nor did it: the plan was withdrawn by the ubiquitous Qataris.

"The prince is a celebrity. Hereditary celebrity, and its opinion, is no more or less legitimate than that of a pop star, a sportsman, a novelist or Russell Brand, on all of whom the media dance attendance. Celebrity has influence only insofar as it commands public support. The rest is noise.

"The prince has no influence on policy or decision in comparison, for instance, with that of an “unaccountable” newspaper or with the true movers and shakers, the lobbyists who now terrorise whole provinces of the coalition government. A princely concern for a green belt orchid counts for nothing against the massed ranks of the National Farmers’ Union or the Home Builders Federation. A concern for arms sales to the Gulf is lost amid the big guns of British Aerospace. The prince gives funds to no political party. He wields no divisions, just a few biscuit factories."
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  #2086  
Old 02-08-2015, 05:09 AM
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There is one thing he can do and often does, as in the case of the Chelsea Barracks scenario, gives voice to those that are not heard.

There was a tight-knit community vocally lobbying against the proposal, claiming it would have a huge negative impact on their community. How Prince Charles became aware of the development I am not sure, but one thing I am sure of is that the locals were ignored and Charles taking up their cause, made the news for "interferring", yet again after a single letter was leaked.

He was called arrogant for charging the developers to prove the development would not adversely impact the community and the good old architects and developers wailed and publically castigated him, all the while shooting themselves in the foot by providing a platform for the local citizens and raising public interest in something that would otherwise have just ground on inexorably.

Why Prince Charles is right about architecture - Comment - Voices - The Independent
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  #2087  
Old 02-08-2015, 06:29 AM
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Excellent article.
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  #2088  
Old 02-08-2015, 03:35 PM
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Excellent article.
And excellent prose. Well worth the read if only for the phrasing.
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  #2089  
Old 02-08-2015, 07:12 PM
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What do you think about Prince Charles getting involved in a project that would restore some of the older castles in England?
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  #2090  
Old 02-13-2015, 06:11 AM
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What do you think about Prince Charles getting involved in a project that would restore some of the older castles in England?

As long as he listens to others in the project
On second thoughts best if he's not involved leave to the people that trained and professional


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  #2091  
Old 02-13-2015, 06:54 AM
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As long as he listens to others in the project
On second thoughts best if he's not involved leave to the people that trained and professional


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Yes. Leave it to those who would update the castles so that they are more in tune with modern views on architecture. Attach some hideous concrete structure or glass edifice to a beautiful medieval building.

Listening to other points of view flows both ways.


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  #2092  
Old 02-13-2015, 07:12 AM
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Yes. Leave it to those who would update the castles so that they are more in tune with modern views on architecture. Attach some hideous concrete structure or glass edifice to a beautiful medieval building.

Listening to other points of view flows both ways.


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So all architects are idiots and only know modern work and Charles who isn't a architect knows better.
There are plenty of architects who are specialists in these sorts of projects and have studied for years.


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  #2093  
Old 02-13-2015, 07:28 AM
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So all architects are idiots and only know modern work and Charles who isn't a architect knows better.
There are plenty of architects who are specialists in these sorts of projects and have studied for years.


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No, not all architects are idiots but some have horrendous taste IMHO.

Prince Charles certainly needs to accept other points of view but so do the so called experts.


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  #2094  
Old 02-13-2015, 07:37 AM
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What do you think about Prince Charles getting involved in a project that would restore some of the older castles in England?

I think he's done that - sort of. Dumfries' estate dates to the 1500s, and the current house to the 1700s.
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  #2095  
Old 02-13-2015, 07:38 AM
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Just because all his great greats lived in castles doesn't mean he would know anything about restoring them
It's a very specialist job to be able to protect it from further damage
My great greats lived in little timber shanty's but I wouldn't know how to restore them either.
Just my opinion but I think Charles would be a massive pain in the b.. JMO


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  #2096  
Old 02-13-2015, 07:48 AM
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I'm changing the subject. I hope when Charles is King, that he stops promoting family members along a timeline as if they were still active military. It's a tradition that once made sense, but has become a more of a liability in a modern military/society. JMO.

I think the honorary leadership positions can have some real impact for members of the services. I just question the value of perpetual promotions to anyone other than the member of the Royal Family and as a nod to "tradition."
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  #2097  
Old 02-13-2015, 08:20 AM
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I don't see what the big deal is about a honorary promotion. It isn't a taking a promotion away from an active serving member of the forces. It is just letting the Royal where a different uniform. Charles himself when he left the Royal Navy was probably around the rank when William left - Lt. or Lt. Cmdr. Through out the years, he has been promoted to the top ranks in all three services.

If he stayed the rank he left active service, he would be King -head of the armed forces but only a junior officer. Would he have to salute officers who have a higher rank?


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  #2098  
Old 02-13-2015, 08:27 AM
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To me it just looks elitist. It's not earned, it's a gift. This is just my opinion, but it demeans earned promotions when unearned promotions are tradition. And sometimes, the timing can be awkward.
As to the salute - as a no longer active service member a salute is not required. Someone who knows more about the military/royalty level of rank would have to address who salutes whom in what instances. I admit - that's way out of my experience.
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  #2099  
Old 02-13-2015, 02:11 PM
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To me it just looks elitist. It's not earned, it's a gift. This is just my opinion, but it demeans earned promotions when unearned promotions are tradition. And sometimes, the timing can be awkward.
I agree with you. But isn't that what monarchy is all about? The very existence of Kings and Queens not to mention an aristocracy has nothing to do with merit, it's all about elitism. From there it's a very short leap to honorary promotions.
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  #2100  
Old 02-13-2015, 03:21 PM
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I think he's done that - sort of. Dumfries' estate dates to the 1500s, and the current house to the 1700s.
Correctly so. He has never done any restoration 'on his own' as far as I know. What he does do is employ the experts, the artists and restorationists themselves. He employs architects, in fact.

What makes Charles valuable is that he actually does consult with 'the experts'. Charles is not an outlier. The Dumfries estate is an example of just how savvy his attention is to a project. He likely could restore castles, if that was an interest, though I have the impression that Charles undertakes a project only when he can see a benefit accruing to a larger, current need, like local employment and revitalization of an area.
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