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  #501  
Old 09-28-2017, 12:27 AM
M. Payton's Avatar
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I am just going to throw a question out to get opinions on this.....If Charles slims down the monarchy and even William does more in the way of slimming down the monarchy do you think that the people will see less of them and then begin to think why do we even have a monarchy for they don't really do much? IMO I see that each time HM or Charles or William is out there among the people it reinforces the idea and institution of the monarchy itself. It is a way of them being seen as the head of the monarchy that keeps the country together in peace and times of war if there is another. Thanks for ideas on this and for me personally, I want the monarchy to continue for centuries on.
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  #502  
Old 09-28-2017, 12:44 AM
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As long as the monarch, the heir and the adult heir's heir as seen they will be fine. How many people really care about the other members of the family turning up anyway?
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  #503  
Old 09-28-2017, 12:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
As long as the monarch, the heir and the adult heir's heir as seen they will be fine. How many people really care about the other members of the family turning up anyway?
Apparently enough people care that organizations are happy to have a "minor royal" attend their event or opening or whatever. If they didn't no one would bother having The Duchess of Gloucester as a patron or have her come to things in an official capacity.
  #504  
Old 09-28-2017, 01:11 AM
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I completely agree you for there are lots of events all over the country where the monarch is wanted and so are members of the family. It is not just about the monarch and the heir, it is the very institution and all members of that. As HM has said, and if I get this wrong please correct me, *She has to be seen to believed*......the monarchy in it's entirety as a whole has to be out there in all parts of the kingdom, not just a few places. If they hid behind the walls of the palace so to speak then people will wonder why are we paying for this, why do we need them, they cost to much money and so forth. Prince Edward and his wife are not major players yet people do show up to see them for they are representing the monarch and that is what people want to see. The younger generation today might not view this as something they want yet believe me as one gets older views change big time and a country's history becomes more important and if a person younger sees a member of the monarch at some event then they will remember that always and be more in tune to what is going on with the monarch as time goes by.

The monarch will only survive as long as the people want it and to survive they have to be out there working all the time to represent all the people, if not then the republicans will jump to get rid of them.
  #505  
Old 09-28-2017, 11:44 AM
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One thing I sincerely hope is that when it comes time for a coronation, Charles will keep as much of the pomp and pageantry and the traditions of a British coronation that he possibly can. His coronation will not be only his but a day for all the people of the UK and the Commonwealth. It means something special.

The monarchy stands for continuity. The monarchy is the preservation of who the British people are, where they come from, where they've been and is a secure lifeline going into the future. The monarchy is the glue that holds everything together for the UK and the Commonwealth.

To do anything less, to me, would be stripping meaning from the monarchy itself.
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  #506  
Old 09-28-2017, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
As long as the monarch, the heir and the adult heir's heir as seen they will be fine. How many people really care about the other members of the family turning up anyway?
Well, they are plenty of people who care about a Royal like Harry turning up to things like the Invictus Games, as we've seen from the fulsome praise the wounded and maimed athletes have given for his appearances and work this week.
  #507  
Old 09-28-2017, 01:25 PM
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I think the most profound change after Elizabeth II will be states opting not to have the British monarch be their head of state. I think this will be more a reflection of the times than a reflection on Elizabeth II's successors.

Interestingly, going by Brexit, decoupling actually created more work for the royals not less, as the Foreign Office is utilizing the royals as part of the effort to keep financial ties with European countries. It remains to be seen if this is a short-term or long-term phenomenon.


To me solid arguments can be made for a small royal family (monarch, heir and spouses) as well as a larger royal family (monarch, heirs, spares and whatnot). As I have mentioned before, if the small royal family model prevails, then I predict that there will be challenges to the funding scheme and it will interesting to see how the Windsors respond to that challenge.
  #508  
Old 09-28-2017, 01:59 PM
Aristocracy
 
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Future

I think that, with the exception of the 'top' royals (monarch, heir etc), it should be up to individual members of the family whether they want to be full time 'firm' members. To take an example from Sweden, Princess Madeline's husband could have been given the title of Prince if he'd wanted it, but he chose to opt out and continue his career. Obviously in a historical context it has usually been the case that wives of male royals have joined the Firm but husbands of female royals have not. For example Mark Phillips, who I'm sure the Queen would have been happy to grant a title to. But it doesn't have to be the case.

If there turned out to be a lack of available royals using this method, then of course it wouldn't work. But I think we'll always have a mixture of spouses who do and don't want to join.

I personally don't favour Charles' slimmed- down monarchy. I also think it's a pity the York princesses aren't allowed to play a role in the BRF if they want to. As has been said, many members are getting on quite a bit, Prince Andrew will be 60 in 2020 and has no wife to help in royal duties. It will be years before the Cambridge children can take on royal duties. That leaves the Wessex couple, William and Catherine, Harry and Meghan (probably... his wife anyway) who are anything like young. Could be a problem in 20 years or less given the age at which Charles is likely to come to the throne, and the Duchess of Cornwall is more or less the same age as he is.
  #509  
Old 09-28-2017, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Claude View Post
I think the most profound change after Elizabeth II will be states opting not to have the British monarch be their head of state. I think this will be more a reflection of the times than a reflection on Elizabeth II's successors.
When Elizabeth became Queen she was Head of State of about 50 countries while now it is 16 and could easily drop a few more before she dies. Most of them are in the caribbean as those in Africa, Asia and Europe have become republics.

This is an ongoing process and whether there are any left when Elizabeth dies, other than Britain, will depend largely on how much longer she lives.

Quote:
Interestingly, going by Brexit, decoupling actually created more work for the royals not less, as the Foreign Office is utilizing the royals as part of the effort to keep financial ties with European countries. It remains to be seen if this is a short-term or long-term phenomenon.
It is perfectly normal for royals to make a number of tours to Europe each year. The only difference this year is that William and Kate visited Germany and Poland.

Most royals don't get any coverage when they do overseas, or even local visits, so it seems like something has changed but when you go back and look at the CC it is obvious that it isn't.


Quote:
To me solid arguments can be made for a small royal family (monarch, heir and spouses) as well as a larger royal family (monarch, heirs, spares and whatnot). As I have mentioned before, if the small royal family model prevails, then I predict that there will be challenges to the funding scheme and it will interesting to see how the Windsors respond to that challenge.
The only change would be in the size of the Sovereign Grant. The Duchies are set up differently and unless there is a move to strip the monarch and heir of a private income to use to support themselves and the extended family then all they can do is reduce the percentage paid for the Sovereign Grant and the argument could easily be put that it needs to remain at 15% to fund those it funds for their official engagements and to maintain the royal palaces - putting more into that rather than the ongoing cuts that have seen the massive figure that has to be paid now.
  #510  
Old 09-28-2017, 06:21 PM
Aristocracy
 
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Cc?

What is CC please?
  #511  
Old 09-28-2017, 06:29 PM
Osipi's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess Squirrel View Post
What is CC please?
Court Circular? its the listing of the official engagements and events done by the monarchy.

Our own Iluvbertie keeps an extensive lists of these things taken from the court circular which can be found at British Royal Family Engagements 2017. Makes for interesting reading.
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  #512  
Old 09-28-2017, 06:34 PM
Majesty
 
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Court Circular. It is the daily record of all engagements by individual members of the BRF and is signed off by the Queen. (Births, Weddings, Christenings, Deaths/ Funerals are also recorded.) Engagements not recorded in the CC are regarded as unofficial.
The CC appears in newsprint in The Times, and ostensibly on the official online site, but the latter is absolutely shockingly inefficient.
  #513  
Old 09-28-2017, 06:54 PM
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And the kicker is that The Times requires a subscription to view the CC. Which I understand from a business perspective, but it would be so easy to set that one Times page so that the public could read the CC. As a "for the common good" gesture.

But it's The Times, so don't hold you breath on that.

And I am off topic, sorry Mods.
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  #514  
Old 09-28-2017, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmirerUS View Post
And the kicker is that The Times requires a subscription to view the CC. Which I understand from a business perspective, but it would be so easy to set that one Times page so that the public could read the CC. As a "for the common good" gesture.

But it's The Times, so don't hold you breath on that.

And I am off topic, sorry Mods.
The only Court Circular I go to is the official one at The British Monarchy site
https://www.royal.uk/court-circular

It's free :)
  #515  
Old 09-28-2017, 09:05 PM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
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The problem with the online CC is that it is quite irregular in updating.

When I put up the update to 28th September later today I will have a list of 'missing dates' and id a number of those dates on which we know royals undertook engagements but can't know exactly what because the online CC doesn't keep up to date.

For example - the 22nd and 23rd September have no official engagements listed - that includes the opening of the IG for Harry and the engagements Andrew did in Brisbane (sorry Qlders - for you the visit of the Queen's second son warranted by received by the Governor and a church service and a visit to an art gallery but what he did on the other days - for Pitch at Palace doesn't rate - for the rest of us eastern staters this 'whirlwind' nearly two week tour rates even if the event wasn't in the capital city).
  #516  
Old 09-28-2017, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M. Payton View Post


As HM has said, and if I get this wrong please correct me, *She has to be seen to believed*......the monarchy in it's entirety as a whole has to be out there in all parts of the kingdom, not just a few places. If they hid behind the walls of the palace so to speak then people will wonder why are we paying for this, why do we need them, they cost to much money and so forth. Prince Edward and his wife are not major players yet people do show up to see them for they are representing the monarch and that is what people want to see. The younger generation today might not view this as something they want yet believe me as one gets older views change big time and a country's history becomes more important and if a person younger sees a member of the monarch at some event then they will remember that always and be more in tune to what is going on with the monarch as time goes by.
Being seen can take many forms, however, not only being seen in person at relatively small groundbreaking/ribboncutting/plaque unveiling events but in interviews, videos, etc. At the moment, I think a lot of younger folks respond quite favorably to seeing members of their royal family in ways that feel intimate to their generation: on the smartphones that feel like an extension of themselves. It will be interesting to see if, as you predict, those tastes change over time as they age...or if the manner in it is most effective and useful for Charles, William and George to "be seen" will be what changes.
  #517  
Old 03-05-2018, 11:29 AM
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Dman has written several posts about the younger generations of British royals and the modernization (reshaping) of the monarchy in the ''Meghan Markle: Future Duties, Roles and Responsibilities'' thread.

Here are some points from me:

The Queen as an apolitical monarch:
* Being driven in open cars from 1952 to 2012 (stopped doing it due to her age, but did it again in 2016 for her 90th birthday).
* Went on walkabouts from 1970 to 2012 (stopped doing it due to her age, but did it again in 2016 for her 90th birthday).
* Visiting and opening hospitals, schools, community clubs, factories etc (some of it as patron) - mostly from 1952 to 2012 (stopped doing much of it due to her age.
* Gives dinners, receptions several times a year from 1952 - present, but on a smaller scale after 2013.
* Does the annual stuff like the state opening, trooping, investitures and garden partes and the head of state things like the audiences.
* Gives unifying christmas speeches and other speeches without being political.
* Went on Commonwealth/state visits from 1953 to 2015 where she have helped to build friendships between countries (even been described as the worlds top diplomat).
* Celebrated her Silver, Golden and Diamond Jubilees to unify the UK.
* Celebrated her 60th, 80th and 90th birthdays to unify the UK.
* She has also supported and visited her more than 600 Patronages, but without taking a political stand - mostly from 1952 to 2012 (stopped doing most off her charity visits due to her age).

She has modernized the monarchy (and her mysterious role as British monarch) with documentaries such as the Royal Family (BBC/ITV 1969), Elizabeth R (BBC 1992), The Royal Family at Work (BBC 2007), The Diamond Queen (BBC 2012), Our Queen (ITV 2013), Our Queen at 90 (ITV 2016) and Elizabeth at 90: A Family Portrait (BBC 2016).
Also done it with the walkabouts (which I mentioned above), the BBC televised Children's Party at the Palace for her 80th birthday in 2006, her James Bond thing during the 2012 Olympics and with the pop concerts for her Golden and Diamond Jubilees + all the garden parties and receptions she has given during her long reign.

In addition to all that, she has comforted people when horrible things have happened (including the London bombings in 2005 and the awful things that happened last year).

And she's never been political (with the exception of the Margaret Thatcher stuff in 1986).

She has also always been very popular (even after Diana's death) according to polls.

What does all this tell us?

1. That she has obviously done something right.

2. That this is how an apolitical ceremonial constitutional monarch behaves and acts (also in modern times).

3. If Charles and William are wise (something I think they are), then they will do much of the same (and I don't think we will see many interviews from them after their successions to the throne).

Other family members: They have a freer role than what the monarch has, but they are part of an apolitical institution and the most important role of British royal family members with the style and title of HRH and Prince/Princess (except for Beatrice/Eugenie, prince/princess Michael and the Duchess of Kent) is to support the Queen in her role as apolitical Head of State and Head of Nation in the UK and her role asapolitical Head of State in the other 15 Commonwealth realms and in her role as Head of the Commonwealth.

Their other important role (if we can call it that) is to take on charities, but that is also in a way on behalf of the apolitical monarch. - Why? Because they do it as royal work (and therefore they must be very careful in not being political).

Charles: I like and admire him, and I agree with him when it comes to environment issues, but it's not wise for the heir to the throne to lobby political leaders on that or other issues (not that I think he does, but he is constantly accused for doing it), and he has to stopp writing letters to ministers (something I'm pretty sure he will do after his accession to the throne).

William: I'm a big fan of him, and I think the Heads Together campaign is a very good thing, but he, Kate and Harry must be a bit careful. - Why? Because it's a political issue, and they have received much criticism for getting involved in it (not only from the Daily Fail, but from serious pro-monarchy commentators).

Harry: Yes, much freer in his role than Charles and William, but he must start thinking before speaking and stop involving himself in political issues.

And then to the Meghan issue:
1. I like her.
2. But to openly say that she disagree with a thing isn't something she (as a member of the BRF) should be doing.
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  #518  
Old 03-05-2018, 12:44 PM
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^ ABSOLUTELY spot on ^.

The very idea that an institution well nigh a THOUSAND years old, isn't able [or aware of the need] to modernise is absurd.
It does grate that many from a nation that fetishises a piece of legislation from 1776, and will not entertain the idea of a single word being altered, should think that the BRF are in dire need of 'new broom' to survive into the future.
Ms Markle is welcome here, but trying to 'do too much, too soon' is a path fraught with danger, and I hope she knows it..
  #519  
Old 03-05-2018, 01:58 PM
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I hope they all know it...the younger royals.


LaRae
  #520  
Old 03-05-2018, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
^ ABSOLUTELY spot on ^.

The very idea that an institution well nigh a THOUSAND years old, isn't able [or aware of the need] to modernise is absurd.
It does grate that many from a nation that fetishises a piece of legislation from 1776, and will not entertain the idea of a single word being altered, should think that the BRF are in dire need of 'new broom' to survive into the future.
Ms Markle is welcome here, but trying to 'do too much, too soon' is a path fraught with danger, and I hope she knows it..
I agree - I think Meghan is a wonderful breath of fresh air in the BRF, and obviously makes Prince Harry very proud and happy.
I feel that if Brits can be accused of being racist - it's more to do with her being 'American', with a more extrovert and confident personality than they are used to in the BRF, than her being 'half-black', which I think isn't really much of a big deal on these islands.
She must be careful to 'know her place', to wait until she is married until she begins to state her ideals and plans, and to not to try to upstage more senior females in the BRF such as the Duchess of Cambridge, the York Princesses, or God forfend, the Princess Royal!
I really wish her well.
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