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  #141  
Old 06-15-2013, 01:28 PM
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Alfonso's father died before he was born. My question was about who reigned between the death of the father and the birth of the son.
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  #142  
Old 06-15-2013, 01:33 PM
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After the death of King Afonso XII, the Throne became vacant, and his widow, Queen Maria Cristina, was Regent until King Afonso XIII was 16 years old.
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  #143  
Old 06-15-2013, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
Alfonso's father died before he was born. My question was about who reigned between the death of the father and the birth of the son.
I know that my point was the wikipedia lists that Alfonso's father was his predecessor, meaning nobody ruled in the middle.
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  #144  
Old 06-15-2013, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
I know that my point was the wikipedia lists that Alfonso's father was his predecessor, meaning nobody ruled in the middle.
The Dowager Queen ruled as Regent.
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  #145  
Old 06-15-2013, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by BrazilianEmpire View Post

The Dowager Queen ruled as Regent.
Yes, but the Dowager Queen wasn't Queen in her own right. There was no official monarch at the time.
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  #146  
Old 06-15-2013, 02:29 PM
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Yes, but the Dowager Queen wasn't Queen in her own right. There was no official monarch at the time.
I know that. But the point was who was ruling: Queen Maria Cristina.
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  #147  
Old 06-15-2013, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by wbenson View Post

The Regency Act of 1831 said that the birth of the child would have resulted in an immediate change:

"...the Privy Council shall, upon the Birth of such Child, without Delay, cause such Child. as the Successor entitled to the Crown of these Realms, to be openly and solemnly proclaimed, in such Manner and Form as the Kings and Queens have been usually proclaimed after the Demise of their respective Predecessors."

"...upon the Birth of such Child the Two Houses of Parliament shall forthwith assemble, and all the Laws and Regulations now in force in regard to the Meeting, the Sitting, the Continuance, the Prorogation, and the Dissolution of Parliament, and to the Continuance of the Privy Council, and of Persons in their Offices, Places, and Employments, upon the Demise of the Crown and the Accession of the Successor, shall be deemed and taken to apply to the Succession of such Child, in the same Manner as if such Child had succeeded to the Crown upon the Demise of Her Royal Highness the Princess Alexandrina Victoria, and as Her Heir."
So the way I'm reason this is that there would be no abdication, but rather at the birth of the posthumous child the new monarch would cease to be monarch in favour of the posthumous child, regardless of if he or she wishes to abdicate.

In the case of William and Victoria it would have gone William dies, his heir presumptive (Victoria) becomes monarch until William's posthumous child and heir apparent is born, then the heir apparent is automatically monarch an Victoria is cast aside. The same thing would have happened with HM, had QEQM been pregnant with a son at KGVI's death.

In the case of William and Harry, it would go HM would die, along with her heir apparent (Charles), and his heir apparent (William), causing his heir presumptive (Harry) to be monarch, until such time as William's posthumous child is born. Then Harry ceases to be king and the child becomes monarch.
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  #148  
Old 06-15-2013, 07:14 PM
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The Regency Act 1831 however had ceased to be effective from Victoria's 18th birthday, when no Regency was needed, as the 1831 Act dealth specifically with Victoria as a minor and who would be regent for her and the eventuality of two minor heirs and no new legislation had been passed to take effect to cover the eventuality. There have also been several Regency Acts since then and that Act dealt with a specific situation - named persons, not general situations.

The 1937 Regency Act was designed to deal with ALL future regencies rather than have to pass new laws each time there was a minor although it was modified specifically for Philip to be Regent, in the case of the death or incapacity of The Queen and that Act is now no longer relevant as there are children and grandchildren over 18 to serve instead - so back to 1937.
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  #149  
Old 05-20-2015, 07:03 AM
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This is an old thread to be re-activated again but after discussions about the BRF came up the other day, a question was asked about William. If William decided that he did not wish to become Prince of Wales and then King in the future, he could then in theory remove himself, I believe.

However, I don't think that, unlike King Edward VIII and his (non-existent) children, heirs and successors he could also remove George, Charlotte and future descendants. Others disagreed.

I'm not suggesting in the least that William would ever wish to renounce his claim to the throne, by the way, but has there ever been a case in a European royal house where an heir has renounced the throne for himself and for his existing children, apart from Tsar Nicholas and Alexei in 1917?
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  #150  
Old 05-20-2015, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
This is an old thread to be re-activated again but after discussions about the BRF came up the other day, a question was asked about William. If William decided that he did not wish to become Prince of Wales and then King in the future, he could then in theory remove himself, I believe.



However, I don't think that, unlike King Edward VIII and his (non-existent) children, heirs and successors he could also remove George, Charlotte and future descendants. Others disagreed.



I'm not suggesting in the least that William would ever wish to renounce his claim to the throne, by the way, but has there ever been a case in a European royal house where an heir has renounced the throne for himself and for his existing children, apart from Tsar Nicholas and Alexei in 1917?

Thanks for asking this I have been thinking what would happen if William just said enough I want out ? Like you I don't think he ever would but I would be interested to know the answer.


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  #151  
Old 05-20-2015, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
This is an old thread to be re-activated again but after discussions about the BRF came up the other day, a question was asked about William. If William decided that he did not wish to become Prince of Wales and then King in the future, he could then in theory remove himself, I believe.

However, I don't think that, unlike King Edward VIII and his (non-existent) children, heirs and successors he could also remove George, Charlotte and future descendants. Others disagreed.

I'm not suggesting in the least that William would ever wish to renounce his claim to the throne, by the way, but has there ever been a case in a European royal house where an heir has renounced the throne for himself and for his existing children, apart from Tsar Nicholas and Alexei in 1917?
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Thanks for asking this I have been thinking what would happen if William just said enough I want out ? Like you I don't think he ever would but I would be interested to know the answer.


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I think it would take an Act of Parliament for William (or any specific individual) to be removed from the line of succession.

I also think it is highly unlikely that George and Charlotte would be removed from the lines of succession unless they were at least 18 years of age.
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  #152  
Old 05-20-2015, 07:38 AM
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Yes an Act of Parliament is required to remove anyone from the line of succession. William being removed does not remove his children

This questions gets raised with Harry supporters quite a bit on various blogs who hope William will 'abdicate' along with his children and make Hazza the king.
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  #153  
Old 05-20-2015, 07:56 AM
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You guys are raising an interesting point! BTW what has Harry to do with this topic once again??? Ah what people do to promote their "idols" is to discredit others Sigh.

I've always asked myself (forgive my absolute lack of knowledge) what would the effects be on George in case of an abdication... I think ti would be totally unfair for him to lose hir ascension rights... But what if William would abdicate with his son still underage? Who would get a regency? I 've read conflicting reports about that
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  #154  
Old 05-20-2015, 08:06 AM
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Because if William and his children are removed from the line of succession by an Act of Parliament then Harry is king, that's what he has to do with it.
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  #155  
Old 05-20-2015, 08:11 AM
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Because if William and his children are removed from the line of succession by an Act of Parliament then Harry is king, that's what he has to do with it.
Yes but why is there is need to be sarcastic and all? Anyway, don't worry, it is very unlikely it will happen...
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  #156  
Old 05-20-2015, 08:15 AM
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Edward VIII is the only British monarch in history to have 'voluntarily' abdicated and parliament gave him no choice. William will become King the instant his father passes.
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  #157  
Old 05-20-2015, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by royal rob View Post
Thanks for asking this I have been thinking what would happen if William just said enough I want out ? Like you I don't think he ever would but I would be interested to know the answer.


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The order of succession is determined by law and, therefore, can only be changed by law. Changing the law on the other hand requires the "advice and consent" of the Lords and Commons of the United Kingdom in parliament assembled. Neither Charles nor William can unilaterally renounce their succession rights.
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  #158  
Old 05-20-2015, 08:27 AM
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Britain does not allow unilateral abdications. "In a monarchy, succession to the throne is a matter not of choice but of duty." (The Monarchy and the Constitution, by Vernon Bogdanor, Oxford: Clarendon Press; New York: Oxford University Press, 1995)
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  #159  
Old 05-20-2015, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
Britain does not allow unilateral abdications. "In a monarchy, succession to the throne is a matter not of choice but of duty." (The Monarchy and the Constitution, by Vernon Bogdanor, Oxford: Clarendon Press; New York: Oxford University Press, 1995)
Aren't abdications always uniltateral?



It was Edward VIII whom abdicated, it was Jean of Luxembourg whom abdicated, it was Beatrix of the Netherlands whom abdicated, it was Pope Benedictus XVI whom abdicated. All these were one-sided (unilateral) decisions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post
Yes, but the Dowager Queen wasn't Queen in her own right. There was no official monarch at the time.
There was. Alfonso XIII. Even when he was not born yet, he already was the King. His mother was Regentess for the child.
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  #160  
Old 05-20-2015, 09:31 AM
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Let me please make this clear. Although I like Harry very much I neither want William to renounce his position nor do I believe that the thought has crossed William's mind.

What does interest me is though, theoretically if William did do such a thing would he ever be able to renounce the throne for his heirs George and Charlotte, or would they be 'in limbo' so to speak until they reached the age of eighteen? What if Charlotte wished to remain in the direct line of succession at eighteen but her brother did not?

What would be their position as minors during the reign of King Charles? Would William be able to take them out of the country? Would a legal guardian have to be appointed by the royal family? What if a third child was born?

Once direct heirs to the throne are born, are with us here and now, it's very different from the hypotheticals that arose in the case of Edward VIII (as I believe that Wallis was probably infertile.)
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