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  #21  
Old 01-01-2007, 11:11 PM
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I'm delighted to hear the news of the lapel badge! Ever since the establishment of the Order of Australia in 1975, they've come with lapel badges to denote the award on every day dress, so it's about time (considering the Order of the British Empire was established in 1917), this piece of insignia has been produced.
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  #22  
Old 01-02-2007, 03:27 PM
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Reading through this list, I had to ask myself what they had done 'for god and empire'.

We have the woman who has been employed serving fish and chips for a number of years, a teacher at a school, the customs officer who has been on a very good salary (with perks) for a few years and the usual 'actors' and ancient 'singers'.

Time to put most of these awards out to grass.
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  #23  
Old 01-02-2007, 04:35 PM
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Hm, maybe it's interesting to see why exactly these people got their awards. I can't believe that serving fish & chips alone can be it - surely the persons put forward for the award have to have done a bit more than just you everyday job? But I agree, it sounds strange when you read the list, but somehow I cannot imagine that this ia all there is to know about these people. For example the hooker who got the same MBE than Zara Philipps - for "serice for women" - she surely was working for her fellow prostitues, doing public a service in a way?
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  #24  
Old 01-02-2007, 09:06 PM
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What has to be kept in mind is the three main streams of honours nominations: Those in the personal gift of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II to recognise achievement at the highest level to the United Kingdom (in the form of the Orders of the Garter and of the Thistle) and in the service of Her Majesty and the Royal House (in the form of the Royal Victorian Order). No awards were made by this means in this honours list.

Then there are those people who are nominated by fellow members of the community for their service to a particular group, for a particular project etc, or achievements in the wider community.

Then come the more controversial awards with which the government is sometimes accused of making as crowd-pleasers (those to celebrities, which the government hopes will cast it in a more favourable light).
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  #25  
Old 01-03-2007, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine
Hm, maybe it's interesting to see why exactly these people got their awards. I can't believe that serving fish & chips alone can be it - surely the persons put forward for the award have to have done a bit more than just you everyday job? But I agree, it sounds strange when you read the list, but somehow I cannot imagine that this ia all there is to know about these people. For example the hooker who got the same MBE than Zara Philipps - for "serice for women" - she surely was working for her fellow prostitues, doing public a service in a way?
Apparently the chip shop woman was known to have rattled a few collecting tins, but that is not why she got the award. I havn't found the 'hooker', perhaps it was for services to the government!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_west/5087756.stm

Then we have the man overseeing the 'reform' of the NHS, where thousands of nurses have been sacked, hospital wards closed, hygiene at it's lowest level since the victorian era, the waiting lists have grown ever longer (they are just 'read' differently). How about the Sous Chef, the clock maker (for making and selling clocks), the woman in charge of integrating special needs children into mainstream schools, where they are bullied to such an extent that parents fight to get them placed in the few remaining special needs schools available.

Do we really need to award these people for anything, we know that top civil servants (CEO's) not only have to have friends in the right places to get the job in the first place, but are on over inflated salaries. A friend was telling me how she caught one chap 'colour coding' his smarties one Saturday, because he earned enough by working that one day to put a new roof on the 'holiday cottage' he rented out!

At the very least they should stop calling them the 'honours' list!
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  #26  
Old 01-03-2007, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon
I havn't found the 'hooker', perhaps it was for services to the government!
Sorry, it was my fault, she is probably not a hooker herself. Maybe she is, maybe she's not... Here in Germany most women working for projects like that are (ex-) hookers. Domenica of Hamburg comes to mind. It's on page 80 of the list, two names down from Zara Philipps and she is Ms. Plaine, "co-ordinator of Sex Worker's Empowerment, Training and Education project". She got her MBE for "services to women". I'd rather say for men, but that's just my POV...
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  #27  
Old 01-03-2007, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Time to put most of these awards out to grass.
If I hear that sort of comment once more I shall scream. The UK Honours System in theory is wonderful. It's fantastic. Every country in the world has an honours system and I agree with the Queen that people need a pat on the back. But since John Major, the Honours List has become politically driven. I mean, Dame Ann Leslie said of her honour this year, "I haven't donated a penny to any party so nonbody can say I've bought it". There would be nothing wrong with the Honours List if the public nominated and the Lord Chamberlain suggested the names to the Queen. The Honours List is supposed to reward all sections of society and some actors do deserve them and should get them - it's not so much actors getting them as what they get. I mean, when I saw Rod Stewart's name, I assumed he'd got a KBE because under Mr Blair, the most annoying people have become Sirs. But this list has been slightly more toned down. Rod got a CBE, Penelope Keith got a CBE and they were deserved IMO.

The problem is that instead of old Harry Perkins who's served the tea at Laindon Station for 900 years isn't newsworthy. We don't know him, so the press have to show people like Rod Stewart taking the gongs. Who actually cares about a lollipop lady getting an OBE? Yes she does a service to the community but has she slept with a pop star or snorted 5k of moon dust? No, so she won't make the papers. If you read this list, there are more lollipop ladies and postmen than there are Rods and Zaras but you just dont hear about them and basically, it's become trendy to be ashamed of anything British.

We have an honours system, it'd work if you took the politicians out of it and changed what you give to who. I mean, why not create The Order of Creative Service and give the actors an MCS rather than a KBE? Then at least it's more pertinent. An honours system isn't a bad thing and it's totally nessecary to give people something to drive towards but it's people who say, "Lets scrap these honours" that don't realise, we'd have to replace it with something and the orders we have do mean something to some of us.

Look at Danny La Rue, now without name dropping, I know Danny and when he got his OBE he was thrilled. He was in tears and he was just over the moon that after over 50 years in showbuisness, he'd been given the Order of the British Empire. Maybe because he was alive when there was a British Empire but to him, it's about being part of something. Charlie Chaplin was a member of the Order - now Dan is. It's about that heritage of gratitude that has been demeaned by Major and Blair - not about the actual reason for giving them. Right, rant over. Now where's my RVO?
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  #28  
Old 01-03-2007, 08:55 PM
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The honour system is good (just ask the Swedish posters who don't have one) What they need is to get the PM out of the process and set up an advisorary board.

BTW. The 'hooker' runs a program that provides training program that has helped more than 300 women, likely getting most of them off the street,

http://www.thisisbradford.co.uk/most...lice_chief.php

Also included are a 86 year old hospital voluenteer, imagine what it is going to be like for her to met the Queen (or Prince of Wales). A 62 year old children's coach and fundraiser, and a civil servent who also raises money for austistic children, ect. A lot of these people deserve awards and what is most likley a chance of a life time to met the Queen. And some don't no reason to get rid of the whole thing.
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  #29  
Old 01-03-2007, 10:33 PM
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The full Honours lists can be viewed at:

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/dow...?docId=1119886 (United Kingdom; includes the Royal Victorian Order)

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/dow...?docid=1119887 (Antigua and Barbuda)

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/dow...?docid=1119888 (Bahamas)

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/dow...?docid=1119889 (Belize)

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/dow...?docid=1119890 (Cook Islands)

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/dow...?docid=1119891 (Grenada)

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/dow...?docid=1119892 (Solomon Islands)

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/dow...?docid=1119893 (St. Kitt's and Nevis)

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/dow...?docid=1119894 (St. Vincent and the Grenadines)

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/dow...?docid=1119895 (Tuvalu)
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  #30  
Old 01-04-2007, 06:47 AM
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Scream away....

"King George V wished to honour the many thousands of people who served in numerous non-combatant capacities during the WW1".

Nowhere does it say it is to do reward people for going about their normal everyday lives.
It is supposed to be awarded for chivalry!

Quote:
The Honours List is supposed to reward all sections of society and some actors do deserve them and should get them
Unless an actor has been heavily involved in charitable work (I don't mean for the 'actors benevelent fund'), then no, they should not be awarded anything. La Rue received his award for charitable work for aids, not for being a drag queen.

There may be more lollipop people than anyone else, but do they deserve to be rewarded, just for having a job?

Now that they are awarded to all and sundry, they have lost their value for a lot of the people that really did something to deserve them. If a salary is not enough to reward those in employment or the likes of a female impersonator, then it is time to set up some other form of recognition, if people agree that something is needed. How about a plastic badge that can be replaced every 5 years saying, still in employment?
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  #31  
Old 01-04-2007, 08:57 AM
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Well chivalry doesn't exist anymore. And I think it's more about what your job brings to people. Ok, Danny La Rue gets paid but I think it's only right that he gets some token of thanks for bringing enjoyment to so many people for so long. Danny's gong was exclusively "for services to acting" and his charity work wasn't mentioned. The award was given because he was celebrating his own Golden Jubilee. But I don't see anything wrong in that. For example, I always thought it was amazing how we honoured our very best actresses - Dame Edith Evans, Dame Sybil Thorndyke - they had huge talent and were true stars whom people adored so a DBE is a natural thing.

But what would you replace the honours system with? Nothing? The British people need something to strive for. We are a nation of Mrs Buckets and when the possibility of daubing yourself with medals is gone, how will people cope?
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  #32  
Old 01-04-2007, 09:33 AM
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Then he did not deserve one either, IMO.

No I wouldn't replace it with anything, very few people strive to become an OBE, with all the awards given to people just doing their job or 'entertaining' a few folk, it has become worthless.
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  #33  
Old 01-04-2007, 09:36 AM
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Well, his job isn't exactly easy and I think that considering he's brought alot of joy to alot of people for over 50 years, he deserves some recognition and whether that's a BAFTA or an OBE, it's deserved. "Entertaining a few folk" isn't as easy as getting on stage and telling a few gags. It's extremely hard work and seeing as most performers spend their time either out of work or out of pocket, I think an OBE is quite a nice gesture.

{off-topic diversion deleted - Elspeth}
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  #34  
Old 01-04-2007, 07:30 PM
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The off-topic diversion into the nature of charities has been deleted so that the thread can get back on topic.

Elspeth

British Royals moderator
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  #35  
Old 01-05-2007, 10:29 AM
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British awards, as do Australian, cover the whole range of the social fabric. Entertainers in their various forms are part of our culture and always have been. An award is not just a "reward", it is a recognition of "service" and contribution to society, which includes popular culture. Not every award will be universally popular, but society is, thankfully, broad enough to accommodate most tastes. So cheers to Dame Maggie Smith, Dame Julie Andrews, Penelope Keith CBE, and to Danny La Rue OBE.
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  #36  
Old 01-05-2007, 07:23 PM
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I'm glad to see Hugh Laurie getting an OBE.....it's not easy being a curmudgeonly doctor with a limp and a Vicodin habit.
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  #37  
Old 01-16-2007, 03:43 PM
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I know that the Order of the Garter and the Royal Victorian Order are decided by the Queen, but if a member of the royal family gets a different order (Order of the Bath (Princess Alice, Duchess of Gloucester)) do they have to go through the same process or can the Queen award those as well.
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  #38  
Old 01-16-2007, 03:48 PM
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Yup. It'd be announced on the Honours List if it's a Government recommended order.
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  #39  
Old 12-28-2007, 08:35 PM
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Right, here we go. Honours time. Michael Parkinson is a Sir, Jacqueline Wilson is a Dame and Sir Ian McKellen is now a Companion of Honour. Julie Walters is a CBE, as is Leslie Phillips. Kylie Minogue (for some ridiculous reason) is an OBE. Des Lynam and Richard Griffiths are OBEs. I got bugger all.

P.S - and didn't I get a shock that Rachael Heyhoe-Flint is now an OBE. She's high up in a charity I support, she's never been that pleasant to me but it's always fun to see someone you know getting a gong.
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  #40  
Old 12-28-2007, 11:16 PM
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Honours System

Could someone point me to (or write) an explanation of the different orders and honors (sorry, American spelling ) that are presented twice a year in the UK? Why do some countries have their "own" list? What are the different orders and which are more/less prestigious? I am very curious about the differences, particularly in the "Order of Bath" vs. "OBE" vs. "Order of St. Michael (?) and St. George"???
Thanks!
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