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  #261  
Old 06-19-2016, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
It is possible that he has been offered a knighthood and turned it down. Those that are offered and refuse honours aren't announced.
My friend says she doesn't believe that to be the case here...
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  #262  
Old 06-19-2016, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong here. When discussing the Queen's birthday list for honors, it was suggested that the Queen honor some of her own family. From what I understand, there is a difference between the Honors list and what the Queen deems to award her family with.

The Honors List actually is drawn up by the Prime Minister (the government) and not HM. The Queen can and does approve the list but basically, those that are honored are those that have come to the government's attention or have been nominated for accomplishments in service to the UK.

So therefore, for a member of the royal family to be chosen and awarded and put on the Honors List, it would have to come through the government.

Chivalrous orders and the personal honors that HM bestows as her gift are totally separate from the Honors List.

Please correct me if I'm wrong on this but thought I'd take a shot at it anyways. Too early in the morning and not enough coffee in the system yet.
The Queen does honour members of her only family, though often these are announced at a different time to The Birthday or New Year's Honour list, I think it was announced she had made Andrew a Knight Grand Cross of the Victorian Order in March 2011 (much was made of it at the time as Andrew was at teh height of the Epstein scandal), neither the NY or Birthday honours are announced in March.

Zara and Tim were given honours in the usual manner announced in the usual way as they are awarded on the advice of the government rather than being personally chosen by the Queen - Zara for her sports success, Tim for his work in the Navy.

The only awards granted in the NY and Birthday honours the government does not decide upon are those decided by other government in the Commonwealth and those of the Royal Victorian Order which are awarded to staff in the Royal Household. Even for these though I think there is a set of rules followed (ie becoming a member of the RVO after 10 years service etc) rather than the Queen just deciding the lady who does the cleaning suddenly needs an honour.
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  #263  
Old 06-19-2016, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roseroyal View Post
My friend says she doesn't believe that to be the case here...
Unless your friend has information directly from him, in person, then they are guessing.

Many people have been offered honours and turned them down and we are never told.
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  #264  
Old 06-19-2016, 04:28 PM
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Roseroyal, there in nothing to stop you and your friends from writing to the Prime Minister (I'm not sure what the contact list is for suggesting honors is) and bringing it to his attention that perhaps Robert Hardy should be honored with a KBE. It can't hurt to write.

Perhaps its just never happened as Hardy already has been honored with a CBE. Perhaps they are not aware of how extensive and lovingly Hardy has brought love and joy to so many people. He could have refused one as Iluvbertie has suggested. We just don't know and I don't think anyone here at TRF is in the position to really do anything. The Prime Minister (and the government) are the ones that nominate someone for a knighthood which the Queen then approves (unless the honor is turned down).

ETA: I did a little bit of digging for you and came up with a wonderful page that will inform and guide you in nominating Mr. Hardy for a KBE. It is a .pdf file and most systems have the reader already installed. If you have a problem with it, notify me privately and I'll walk you through it step by step so you have the information.

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...nomination.pdf
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  #265  
Old 06-22-2016, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Roseroyal, there in nothing to stop you and your friends from writing to the Prime Minister (I'm not sure what the contact list is for suggesting honors is) and bringing it to his attention that perhaps Robert Hardy should be honored with a KBE. It can't hurt to write.

Perhaps its just never happened as Hardy already has been honored with a CBE. Perhaps they are not aware of how extensive and lovingly Hardy has brought love and joy to so many people. He could have refused one as Iluvbertie has suggested. We just don't know and I don't think anyone here at TRF is in the position to really do anything. The Prime Minister (and the government) are the ones that nominate someone for a knighthood which the Queen then approves (unless the honor is turned down).

ETA: I did a little bit of digging for you and came up with a wonderful page that will inform and guide you in nominating Mr. Hardy for a KBE. It is a .pdf file and most systems have the reader already installed. If you have a problem with it, notify me privately and I'll walk you through it step by step so you have the information.

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...nomination.pdf
Would it surprise you to know I have already contacted the PM?
Read the fine print- you have to be a British citizen to nominate. My friend is- and I help her.
Seems like I had something else to say, but I forgot it!
Actually there are 2 things you can do- go to my friends Facebook page - like it, and post your support-
https://www.facebook.com/roberthardyactor
My bad- my friends petition closed- but please everyone go to my friends Facebook and sign!
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  #266  
Old 06-22-2016, 03:24 PM
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Jump Jockey AP McCoy got his knighthood from Princess Anne
AP McCoy honoured after receiving his knighthood but joked he was worried Princess Anne would 'let the sword slip' | Daily Mail Online
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  #267  
Old 07-08-2016, 01:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROYAL NORWAY View Post
Why not? This is one of the things which make Great Britain great and makes me proud to be half british.

And our beloved Queen (again in high spirits) looks great:
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/...7893044944.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/...7893286858.jpg
I like seeing these orders of chivalry services, but I think the one thing The Queen has failed at is bringing diversity into these orders. There are so many people from all walks of life that has done some amazing things and who deserve such knighthoods and should be part of these ceremonies, but many of these orders don't include people of different backgrounds. I'm always seeing one particular race being installed in these orders and their nearly all older people.
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  #268  
Old 07-08-2016, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
I like seeing these orders of chivalry services, but I think the one thing The Queen has failed at is bringing diversity into these orders. There are so many people from all walks of life that has done some amazing things and who deserve such knighthoods and should be part of these ceremonies, but many of these orders don't include people of different backgrounds. I'm always seeing one particular race being installed in these orders and their nearly all older people.

I'm sorry I think this is not true. At the start of The Queen's reign there were no women admitted to the Garter or the Thistle. Now there are women.

Lord Patel was given the Thistle by The Queen in 2010, he is of Indian origin.

The honours lists are full of people of every race, colour and creed every year.


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  #269  
Old 07-08-2016, 08:31 AM
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A knighthood is the top of honor awards ladder, it is a lifetime achievement so the people that have one are going to be older. There are lower awards that people receive. Adele has a MBE already but she isn't getting a Damehood at 27. However, most likely she will have one in 30 years.


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  #270  
Old 07-08-2016, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
A knighthood is the top of honor awards ladder, it is a lifetime achievement so the people that have one are going to be older. There are lower awards that people receive. Adele has a MBE already but she isn't getting a Damehood at 27. However, most likely she will have one in 30 years.


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I understand the other awards that people receive and I think that's fantastic, but I think these orders need more diversity. When it comes to the Garter and other orders, I see a bad lack of diversity. Whenever I read about a new knight to be installed in these orders, I know it's going to be a typical recipient.
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  #271  
Old 07-08-2016, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
I understand the other awards that people receive and I think that's fantastic, but I think these orders need more diversity. When it comes to the Garter and other orders, I see a bad lack of diversity. Whenever I read about a new knight to be installed in these orders, I know it's going to be a typical recipient.
When it comes to these orders and knighthoods, they aren't awarded because of race, sex, background, weight, height, political leanings or shoe size. They are awarded because the person that is the recipient has merited it. The worth of a person comes from within and this is what is being recognized IMO.
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  #272  
Old 07-08-2016, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
When it comes to these orders and knighthoods, they aren't awarded because of race, sex, background, weight, height, political leanings or shoe size. They are awarded because the person that is the recipient has merited it. The worth of a person comes from within and this is what is being recognized IMO.

And as many different people of many different backgrounds has worth that comes from within, one would naturally expect said awards not to go to almost all white men.

Wanting to see diversity is a good thing.


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  #273  
Old 07-08-2016, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
When it comes to these orders and knighthoods, they aren't awarded because of race, sex, background, weight, height, political leanings or shoe size. They are awarded because the person that is the recipient has merited it. The worth of a person comes from within and this is what is being recognized IMO.
I totally agree, but where are those from different backgrounds that is worthy of merit in those order services?


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Originally Posted by HRHHermione View Post
And as many different people of many different backgrounds has worth that comes from within, one would naturally expect said awards not to go to almost all white men.

Wanting to see diversity is a good thing.


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Hello! I love the thought of awarding people who's worthy of these orders, but I would think this would mean awarding people of different ethnic backgrounds as well.

When I hear that there's a new knight (outside of the royal family) to be installed, I'm never surprised by the new knight. It's always a typical person and of one race.
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  #274  
Old 07-08-2016, 12:15 PM
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Oh my Goodness Gracious! There are more diversity in the British honour system than in any other honour system.

This is going to be a long post again.

The Order of the Garter/Order of the Thistle honoured members of royal families, peers, statesmen, and eminent military commanders (mostly still does)

From the 18th century, the Sovereign made his or her choices on the advice of the Government. In 1946, with the agreement of the Prime Minister Clement Attlee and the Leader of the Opposition Winston Churchill, membership of the United Kingdom's highest ranking Orders of Chivalry (the Order of the Garter, the Order of the Thistle and the dormant Order of St. Patrick) became a personal gift of the Sovereign once again. Thus, the Sovereign personally selects Knights and Ladies Companion of the Garter, and need not act on or solicit the advice of His or Her Government.

The Royal Victorian Order, in the personal gift of the monarch, honoured those who had personally served the Royal Family (still does)

If the Queen had awarded these three orders to ordinary people, it would have been a political statement, and she had probably been heavily criticized by the media.

The Most Honourable Order of the Bath honoured senior military officers and civil servants (still does)

The Most Distinguished Order of St Michael and St George honoured diplomats and colonial officials (still does)

The Order of the British Empire:
The Order of the British Empire were therefore established by King George V in 1917, because he wished to create an Order to honour the many thousands of those who had served in a variety of non-combatant roles during the First World War.

Nowadays the Order of the British Empire rewards service in a wide range of areas, from contributions to the arts and sciences, work with charitable and welfare organisations and public service outside the Civil Service, with honours that include the well-known MBE and OBE. The order is awarded to people of all ages, and are (as RoyalProtocol said above) full of people of every race, colour and creed every year.

The British monarch is Sovereign of the Order, and appoints all other members of the Order (by convention, on the advice of the governments of the United Kingdom and some Commonwealth realms).

And this is also the case when it comes to Knights and Dames. Women from all walks of life mostly from 50 to 70 is awarded Dame Commander of the order.

Although the Order of the British Empire has by far the highest number of members of the British Orders of Chivalry, with over 100,000 living members worldwide, there are fewer appointments to knighthoods than in other orders.

Though men can be knighted separately from an order of chivalry, women cannot, and so the rank of Knight/Dame Commander of the Order is the lowest rank of damehood, and second-lowest of knighthood (above Knights Bachelor). Because of this, Dame Commander is awarded in circumstances in which a man would be created a Knight Bachelor. For example, by convention, female judges of the High Court of Justice are created Dames Commander after appointment, while male judges become Knights Bachelor.

Read more here:
https://www.royal.uk/queen-and-honours

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_...British_Empire

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...British_Empire

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders...United_Kingdom

And men from all walks of life are Knight Bachelor.
Read more here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knight_Bachelor
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  #275  
Old 07-08-2016, 07:29 PM
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But Dman made it clear he wasn't talking about the general honours system which is outside of the Queen's control. I understood he was speaking about the orders in the Queen's gift - chiefly the 'top' orders as the media like to refer to them, where there is a startling lack of diversity.

One Knight of Indian heritage and two Lady Companions out of 39 does not, in my view, show diversity. While I am opposed to anyone being awarded an honour on anything less than merit, I wonder if there aren't more worthy non-Anglo Saxons males in British public life.
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  #276  
Old 07-08-2016, 07:48 PM
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But Dman made it clear he wasn't talking about the general honours system which is outside of the Queen's control. I understood he was speaking about the orders in the Queen's gift - chiefly the 'top' orders as the media like to refer to them, where there is a startling lack of diversity.

One Knight of Indian heritage and two Lady Companions out of 39 does not, in my view, show diversity. While I am opposed to anyone being awarded an honour on anything less than merit, I wonder if there aren't more worthy non-Anglo Saxons males in British public life.
There is a major lack of diversity in the Orders of the Garter, Thistle, Merit, etc. I like seeing the royals participating in these events, but I just think it's sad that people from all walks of life aren't included in these clubs.
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  #277  
Old 07-08-2016, 08:27 PM
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There is a major lack of diversity in the Orders of the Garter, Thistle, Merit, etc. I like seeing the royals participating in these events, but I just think it's sad that people from all walks of life aren't included in these clubs.
sometimes it's worth to read comments

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Originally Posted by ROYAL NORWAY View Post
The Order of the Garter/Order of the Thistle honoured members of royal families, peers, statesmen, and eminent military commanders (mostly still does)
and there are other orders for other groups
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  #278  
Old 07-08-2016, 09:08 PM
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Thanks Spheno!

As I said in my above post, If the Queen had awarded the Order of the Garter/Thistle to ordinary people, it would have been a political statement, and she had probably been heavily criticized by the media.

And as a courtier said during the Diamond Jubilee: If these orders shall be awarded to ordinary people, then it must be on the advise from the goverment and that means that the orders must be changed.

And since we already have the Order of the British Empire, then I see no point in keeping these two orders if that is going to happen.
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  #279  
Old 07-09-2016, 12:56 AM
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Originally Posted by ROYAL NORWAY View Post
Thanks Spheno!

As I said in my above post, If the Queen had awarded the Order of the Garter/Thistle to ordinary people, it would have been a political statement, and she had probably been heavily criticized by the media.

And as a courtier said during the Diamond Jubilee: If these orders shall be awarded to ordinary people, then it must be on the advise from the goverment and that means that the orders must be changed.

And since we already have the Order of the British Empire, then I see no point in keeping these two orders if that is going to happen.
Not sure how giving these orders to ordinary people would bring a media backlash. It should be a media backlash over the very fact that these orders lack diversity. It shouldn't take the government to advise The Queen to award the orders to deserving people of different ethnic backgrounds too.
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  #280  
Old 07-09-2016, 01:00 AM
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But Dman made it clear he wasn't talking about the general honours system which is outside of the Queen's control. I understood he was speaking about the orders in the Queen's gift - chiefly the 'top' orders as the media like to refer to them, where there is a startling lack of diversity.

One Knight of Indian heritage and two Lady Companions out of 39 does not, in my view, show diversity. While I am opposed to anyone being awarded an honour on anything less than merit, I wonder if there aren't more worthy non-Anglo Saxons males in British public life.

Exactly.

And it's certainly not a "political statement" to acknowledge that people worthy of these honors come from many different backgrounds. More of a political statement NOT to do that in my opinion.

That's something I hope changes over the next several years.


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