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  #241  
Old 10-08-2019, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by MJudith View Post
I always find it weird when people are hoping that Harry will be put aside and made irrelevant as soon as the Queen dies... especially when said people adore the Cambridge family because, after all, the future of Charlotte and Louis will look a lot like their uncle Harry's.

I am not sure what example William would give to his children by casting aside his own brother who has done nothing that could be compared to what Andrew is accused of.

I don't think it is a matter ot casting anyone aside, but, if you follow the other non-British royal forums, there has been a clear trend, both recently and over the past years and across several countries (Spain, the Netherlands, now Sweden, and, to a lesser extent, Belgium), to slim down their respective Royal Houses. That means not only cutting down on the number of RF members who are HRHs, but also cutting down on the number of RF members who get public funding and/or take up official public duties on behalf of the monarch.



As the son of a likely future King Charles III/George VII and the brother of a likely future King William V, there is no doubt to me that the Duke of Sussex will be a full-time working royal for the rest of his life. If, however, the UK follows the current European trend, I don't see an HRH style or an official public role for Harry and Meghan's children, which means for example that King George V's 1917 LPs will be probably replaced with new rules. I also think it is possible that Harry's children will have to support themselves either with their private family inheritance or their work, or, most likely, both.
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  #242  
Old 10-08-2019, 07:01 PM
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Prince Harry will always have an official role in the Royal Family, as will his wife. This will only cease to happen if he ever wants to.
I believe one day the membership of the Royal Family will decrease, but I do not believe it will affect Harry.
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  #243  
Old 10-08-2019, 07:44 PM
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I think this is clearly why Archie was styled as a simple "master." He will inherit his father's dukedom in (hopefully) many years from now but he will have no working role in the Firm. He will be just like Zara and co.

Harry, his father, will likely be a working royal for many, many years, especially since the Queen's cousins are all phasing out and that is a substantial number of engagements right there. Anne and Edward may also decide to not work as long as previous HRHs and "retire" before 90 even! But I think we will also see a big change in how work is likely done or distributed going fwd too.

It is debatable if Louis will be a working royal tbh, depending on timing and how things shake out, if there is even a monarchy when its George's time. IMO, if the Cambs are smart and they seem to be with their kids, they will have both Louis and Charlotte prepped to be non-royal working adults.
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  #244  
Old 10-08-2019, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Zaira View Post
I think this is clearly why Archie was styled as a simple "master." He will inherit his father's dukedom in (hopefully) many years from now but he will have no working role in the Firm. He will be just like Zara and co.
While I agree, Archie will not have a working role in the BRF and will need a career, he is not just like Zara--he has a courtesy title his parents are not using and will inherit a Dukedom.
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  #245  
Old 10-08-2019, 08:23 PM
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I think Charlotte and Louis can work in royalty because they are children of the future king.
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  #246  
Old 10-08-2019, 08:23 PM
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In order to modernise the monarchy and make it more relevant, I would like to see to see complete gender equality in royal titles, for example the husband of a Queen regnant to be a King and the husband of a princess to be a Prince. Also the BRF should follow Sweden's example, and reduce the number of titled royals. This could be achieved by demoting the Queen's royal cousins, plus Beatrice and Eugenie, to untitled citizens.
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  #247  
Old 10-08-2019, 08:55 PM
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I think Charlotte and Louis can work in royalty because they are children of the future king.
Can but I've always felt that at least Louis and possibly Charlotte may not be working members. Just a hunch that could be totally wrong!
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  #248  
Old 10-08-2019, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Zaira View Post
Can but I've always felt that at least Louis and possibly Charlotte may not be working members. Just a hunch that could be totally wrong!
To me it seems highly unlikely that one sibling would be a working member and the other would not. My guess is that both will be working members. It's not that there will be that many others around as William has only one brother. However, it's hard to predict what will happen that many years from now but so far the British royals have far more active member than other royal families, so at least including siblings makes sense.

(Many people are worried that there will be too little royals so H&M's children would be needed and I've been trying to debunk that for quite some time, so it's refreshing to discuss the opposite take on the situation this time )
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  #249  
Old 10-08-2019, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by royal-blue View Post
In order to modernise the monarchy and make it more relevant, I would like to see to see complete gender equality in royal titles, for example the husband of a Queen regnant to be a King and the husband of a princess to be a Prince. Also the BRF should follow Sweden's example, and reduce the number of titled royals. This could be achieved by demoting the Queen's royal cousins, plus Beatrice and Eugenie, to untitled citizens.
I don't see the BRF stripping people who have been HRHs for over 80 years and given up their own hopes and dreams to serve the Queen (Alexandra for instance). That would be nasty.

I do think that the BRF have already made the decision that the children of younger sons, going forward, won't be HRHs ever. This started in 1999 with the decision about Edward's children.

As Charlotte's children won't be HRH under the 1917 rules it wouldn't make sense for Louis' either so it will be simply a matter of going forward only the children of the heir apparent in each generation will be HRH.

Unlike the European royals the BRF will do things slowly over time rather than do it in one go.
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  #250  
Old 10-22-2019, 10:52 AM
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...Another comment that stuck out to me is the claim that the Sussexes "have single-handedly modernized the monarchy" [emphasis mine]. The Sussexes are energetic and well-meaning but this also shows that there is a considerable amount of hubris in Camp Sussex and if this is representative of attitudes being displayed by the Sussexes and their team, regardless of how well-meaning they are, it's not hard to fathom that it will rub royals and courtiers the wrong way. I don't doubt that there are members and staffers within The Firm who are bigots, classisist and/or out-of-touch, but I don't think that applies to all of them and I wonder if some of the open-minded ones have been slighted by the team that thinks that modernization of the monarchy begins and ends with them.
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  #251  
Old 10-22-2019, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Queen Claude View Post
...Another comment that stuck out to me is the claim that the Sussexes "have single-handedly modernized the monarchy" [emphasis mine]. The Sussexes are energetic and well-meaning but this also shows that there is a considerable amount of hubris in Camp Sussex and if this is representative of attitudes being displayed by the Sussexes and their team, regardless of how well-meaning they are, it's not hard to fathom that it will rub royals and courtiers the wrong way. I don't doubt that there are members and staffers within The Firm who are bigots, classisist and/or out-of-touch, but I don't think that applies to all of them and I wonder if some of the open-minded ones have been slighted by the team that thinks that modernization of the monarchy begins and ends with them.
I agree with most of this. If the bit about "single-handedly modernizing the monarchy" is reflective of the general attitude within the camp, and even worse, the attitude of Harry and Meghan, then there is an extremely serious problem, and things are only going to get worse.
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  #252  
Old 10-22-2019, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Queen Claude View Post
I...Another comment that stuck out to me is the claim that the Sussexes "have single-handedly modernized the monarchy" [emphasis mine]. The Sussexes are energetic and well-meaning but this also shows that there is a considerable amount of hubris in Camp Sussex and if this is representative of attitudes being displayed by the Sussexes and their team, regardless of how well-meaning they are, it's not hard to fathom that it will rub royals and courtiers the wrong way. I don't doubt that there are members and staffers within The Firm who are bigots, classisist and/or out-of-touch, but I don't think that applies to all of them and I wonder if some of the open-minded ones have been slighted by the team that thinks that modernization of the monarchy begins and ends with them.
Since the Sussexes moved to FC how many times have we seen people close to them give any comments 'off the record'? Most communication is direct and has been official from either the Palace or IG and usually from Sara or the Sussexes themselves.
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  #253  
Old 10-22-2019, 04:24 PM
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Didn't Harry say in some of the 2017 Diana TV interviews that at the age of 22 or so, he considered leaving the Royal Family As A Firm? (= using the Prince Philip definition of the BRF).
Princess Margaret didn't leave, Edward VIII did, and what I've read about him - I've been bingeing old Edward& Wallis biographies this summer, eerily - he was thinking about leaving The Kinging and Princing since the age of 19. He just used Wallis as a convenient coincidental added inducement.
Meghan sure is no Wallis, she is much more grounded and so is Harry.


--What do you think Charles thinks of this? There is always the link, the succession of the elder brothers, heirs to the throne - "the ghastly, inexorable dawning" -- that binds him to William. But how to relate to Harry?
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  #254  
Old 10-22-2019, 04:28 PM
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It occurs to me that this is not the first time Harry has spoken of "modernizing the monarchy." He talked of it in his interview with Newsweek in 2017.

https://time.com/4828190/prince-harr...be-king-queen/

"... Prince Harry, who recently told Newsweek, “We are involved in modernizing the British monarchy. "

Perhaps there are disagreements internally about how to and when to "modernize."
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  #255  
Old 10-22-2019, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
It occurs to me that this is not the first time Harry has spoken of "modernizing the monarchy." He talked of it in his interview with Newsweek in 2017.

https://time.com/4828190/prince-harr...be-king-queen/

"... Prince Harry, who recently told Newsweek, “We are involved in modernizing the British monarchy. "

Perhaps there are disagreements internally about how to and when to "modernize."
If the quotes from Sussex "allies"---and if that choice of words isn't revealing--are accurate, it is really, really not good. Actually, even if one or two of the quotes are accurate, it's not good, and indicates that there is some grossly skewed ideas of how the BRF functions, and what the role of the Sussexes is.
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  #256  
Old 10-22-2019, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
It occurs to me that this is not the first time Harry has spoken of "modernizing the monarchy." He talked of it in his interview with Newsweek in 2017.

https://time.com/4828190/prince-harr...be-king-queen/

"... Prince Harry, who recently told Newsweek, “We are involved in modernizing the British monarchy. "

Perhaps there are disagreements internally about how to and when to "modernize."
But why oh why, would they modernize the monarchy?
Wouldn't it be a good idea to settle down to a daily routine and allow Meghan to get to know her new job, before revolutionizing the whole system.

Anyway, IMO that's not up to H&M. That's up to Charles and Camilla and William and Kate. - H&M are supporting characters in such a process. Especially as they will move down a notch in the pecking order in about fifteen years anyway.
I don't know what on earth has possessed Harry to come up with that idea!
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  #257  
Old 10-22-2019, 05:00 PM
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Modernising the monarchy is the key to their survival though.
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  #258  
Old 10-22-2019, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Empress Merel View Post
Modernising the monarchy is the key to their survival though.
That is not Harrys role, maybe in the future he could be part of it but not up to him to do it.
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  #259  
Old 10-22-2019, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Empress Merel View Post
Modernising the monarchy is the key to their survival though.
It sure is. Indeed it's a necessity.
But it is preferably that everybody are in on it - or at least those in charge are in on it.
Doing reforms from a lower level on your own initiative is rarely advisable.
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  #260  
Old 10-22-2019, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Empress Merel View Post
Modernising the monarchy is the key to their survival though.
It is. But in general, shaking up and modernizing a whole system has to start with the approval of those in charge and work it's way down the chain of command or the hierarchy. Rarely does it work out well when it starts in the middle of the chain and it pretty much never works out well to start in the middle of the chain when those higher up are not on board. Modernizing the monarchy is all well and good but it must be done with the support and willingness of those at the top. And frankly, over the years, the Queen has done a pretty fair job of modernization in a lot of respects. I suspect that Harry and Meghan's version of modernization may not be what the higher ups have in mind and they might very well be unwilling to get on board with it in which case the Sussexes need to either learn to be content with things as they are or, if they just simply cannot, they will need to remove themselves from the organization or in this case, the Firm because in the end, it isn't their decision to make. They can certainly push for change and modernization and push for their versions of change and modernization but if that isn't the direction those higher up want to take then it won't happen.
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