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  #61  
Old 12-30-2012, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke-of-Earl View Post
William and Catherine are more popular in Canada than Charles and Camilla, I agree with you there but Charles is the next king and the poll asked after the reign of Queen Elizabeth so I take this to mean the public in Canada are warming more to Charles.

The numbers are positive either way in my opinion.
I do agree with you that the numbers are positive either way.

However, I'm suggesting that since the 2012 poll was asked after the 2011 successful Canadian tour of William and Kate that it had a significant influence on the poll outcome. Let's not forget that the Cambridges endured a few mild demonstrations in Quebec, but overall handled the situation with much grace.

Since the question asked "after the reign of Queen Elizabeth..." which some could interpret now as including William, so people are not necessarily thinking more positively about Charles, but are thinking that it now includes William.

So I'm suggesting that some of the poll numbers could now indicate people have the knowledge that they will have to "have" Charles as King, before he can be followed by William. So in my opinion, the Cambridge's popularity in this country has influenced a number of Canadians to be willing to accept the more unpopular Charles as King in order to eventually gain the more popular William as King.
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  #62  
Old 12-30-2012, 12:35 AM
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^^^ I agree with your assessment, especially with younger people and soft monarchists.
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  #63  
Old 12-30-2012, 01:27 AM
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No it doesn't as your post implies that there has been some sort of suggestion that Australia would leave The Commonwealth. There has never been that suggestion. Australia is as committed to The Commonwealth today as it was when The Commonwealth formed.
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  #64  
Old 12-30-2012, 03:10 AM
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I am sure that some day Australia will become a Republic and New Zealand could very well be not too far behind. However, it is not something that is "of the immediate moment" and the decision does not turn on anything as insignificant as who is the the next King/Queen.

Our Australasian, and other Commonwealth countries are not like wayward children throwing their toys out of the cot when we don't get our own way. As a New Zealander I resent people pronouncing with great authority that my country will pull out of the Commonwealth if Charles and Camilla are crowned.

Who are you? You know nothing of our countries, our history, our politics, our aspirations, nothing. Just your opinions based, one can only assume, on what you, as an individual, would do.

Be my guest. Toss your toys but respect our countries as Sovereign states that determine their own destiny by the will of the people.

It is called democracy!
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  #65  
Old 12-30-2012, 03:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
No it doesn't as your post implies that there has been some sort of suggestion that Australia would leave The Commonwealth. There has never been that suggestion. Australia is as committed to The Commonwealth today as it was when The Commonwealth formed.
Even the Australian Republican Movement does not suggest that Australia should leave the Commonwealth. The republican movement is largely about Australia having an Australian head of state representing us on the world stage.
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  #66  
Old 12-30-2012, 03:57 AM
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Roslyn,

Exactly - there has never been any suggestion by anyone that Australia would leave The Commonwealth. We are proud members of that body and will continue as long as The Commonwealth exists.
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  #67  
Old 12-30-2012, 03:59 AM
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Originally Posted by MARG View Post
I am sure that some day Australia will become a Republic and New Zealand could very well be not too far behind. However, it is not something that is "of the immediate moment" and the decision does not turn on anything as insignificant as who is the the next King/Queen.

Our Australasian, and other Commonwealth countries are not like wayward children throwing their toys out of the cot when we don't get our own way. As a New Zealander I resent people pronouncing with great authority that my country will pull out of the Commonwealth if Charles and Camilla are crowned.

Who are you? You know nothing of our countries, our history, our politics, our aspirations, nothing. Just your opinions based, one can only assume, on what you, as an individual, would do.

Be my guest. Toss your toys but respect our countries as Sovereign states that determine their own destiny by the will of the people.


It is called democracy!

Marg

May I clarify to whom this post is directed?

I hope it isn't at me - but as my post is immediately above yours I am not sure.

I say I hope it isn't me as I am saying what you are saying - that we aren't about to even think about leaving The Commonwealth, even if we do become a republic some day - and that is on the back-burner for the rest of The Queen's reign basically now.

On re-reading the thread it is clear that some posts have been removed and so the gist of some of the discussion has been lost.
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  #68  
Old 12-30-2012, 06:03 AM
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It is absolutely not about you. Your view of where Australia is is just a little more republican than my view of New Zealand. So too our place in the Commonwealth.

I was responding to those not from Australasia nor any Commonwealth Nation who believe they have the right to speak on our behalf. What deeply offends me is that not being part of it they have no understanding as to what the Commonwealth is and think we are still part of "The Empire", and that image is from a tacky Hollywood adaption of 'The Far Pavillions!!
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  #69  
Old 12-31-2012, 12:43 AM
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What Marg said.
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  #70  
Old 01-01-2013, 01:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke-of-Earl View Post
No disrespect to the United States, but Canadians look south of the border and it makes us appreciate having a non-political head of state.
Parliaments and Prime Minsters come and go but our Royal Family remains constant.
Yes, that is perfectly understandable to me, as an American. I love my country, but the politics...
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  #71  
Old 01-01-2013, 01:32 AM
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It is absolutely not about you. Your view of where Australia is is just a little more republican than my view of New Zealand. So too our place in the Commonwealth.

I was responding to those not from Australasia nor any Commonwealth Nation who believe they have the right to speak on our behalf. What deeply offends me is that not being part of it they have no understanding as to what the Commonwealth is and think we are still part of "The Empire", and that image is from a tacky Hollywood adaption of 'The Far Pavillions!!
It's fascinating, I have learned so much from TRF. I was so ignorant about the Commonwealth, which nations belong and which are realms that still have the Queen as head of state.
So many possible changes coming up, but I wish many healthy years for Her Majesty.
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  #72  
Old 01-01-2013, 03:03 AM
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I think the issue of the future Head of the Commonwealth should be addressed at CHOGM sooner rather than later. I hope to see the Prince of Wales succeed the Queen as Head of the Commonwealth mainly for historical reasons, but also because I cannot see a viable alternative.

An option already mentioned is rotating the position amongst the Heads of State of member nations. Fine in theory, but would it work in practice? Would it be a set rotation or an election every five, seven or ten years? Would it be vested in the country or the individual? Would the King of Lesotho, serving as Head of the Commonwealth for seven years, be succeeded by his son if he were to die half way through his term? Would Governors-General be eligible? Another proposition was appointing a prominent person from the Commonwealth to the position, such as Nelson Mandela, or any number of previous Presidents, Prime Ministers, or Governors-General. It all seems a bit messy to me, and would perhaps add a layer of expensive bureaucracy that nobody particularly wants. Of course another option is to abolish the position all together. The Secretary-General could easily assume any symbolic functions currently performed by the Queen.

As to the future of the Commonwealth realms, I do not see any major changes occurring just because the Queen dies. 60 years ago there were seven realms, today there are 16. It is often stated that the 15 nations recognise the Queen as their Head of State, or acknowledge "the" monarchy. But that is not correct. Each nation has its own monarchy, and the Queen in each nation is a separate political body. Becoming a republic is not just a simple matter of ceasing to recognise the Queen. It requires the abolition of a constitutional monarchy, the abolition of a national Crown, and the abolition of the office of Governor-General. I'm not saying realms will not become republics over the following decades, that will most likely happen to some. All I am saying is that it is an entirely domestic decision and process, so the timing would most likely be based on local issues rather than a change in reign (though, of course, a change in reign might trigger local issues, who knows?)
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  #73  
Old 01-01-2013, 03:48 AM
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7 realms in 1952 - true but another 40+ nations had the Queen as their monarch directly as they were colonies. Most of them decided to become republics rather then keep her as their Head of State because they had that opportunity from the get-go (something that was never offered to Australians in 1900 for instance - not that it would have gone through then but it was not even offered).

Of the vast majority of the colonies that have become independent most decided to be republics and others are talking along those lines.
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  #74  
Old 01-01-2013, 10:09 AM
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Canadians have never been big on 'change for the sake of change'. Unless a republican can articulate to Canadians why we would be better off without the Queen or Prince Charles as head of state, I think Canada will keep our monarchy and Royal Family for the long term.

The only argument republicans put forward in Canada at least, is on ideology. They don't just like monarchy and think this is reason enough to get rid of it, but as the numbers show, Canadians like the idea of a non-political head of state.
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  #75  
Old 01-01-2013, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke-of-Earl View Post
Canadians have never been big on 'change for the sake of change'. Unless a republican can articulate to Canadians why we would be better off without the Queen or Prince Charles as head of state, I think Canada will keep our monarchy and Royal Family for the long term.

The only argument republicans put forward in Canada at least, is on ideology. They don't just like monarchy and think this is reason enough to get rid of it, but as the numbers show, Canadians like the idea of a non-political head of state.
Agree with your assessment - going forward, the status quo will be maintained.

Also, Canadians largely operate under the adage: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"
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  #76  
Old 01-01-2013, 10:58 AM
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From my view from someone outside, is that Canada is the most royalist realm! They even have there own privy council. I like how they kept a lot of traditions and made them Canadian.
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  #77  
Old 01-01-2013, 11:16 AM
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I suppose if it was decided that Charles should not be Head of the Commonwealth when he becomes King then the Secretary General could take on that role which is more honorific than a real role anyway. It wouldn't be as glamorous but likely better than having a national political figure in the role. Not all the Commonwealth Presidents as exactly role models or even democrats. Can you imagine a Robert Mugabe in the role?
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  #78  
Old 01-01-2013, 11:35 AM
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I think that countries involved either see the benefits of the Commonwealth or they don't. Those benefits do not alter with the change of Monarch. In many ways it's similar to people who want to pick and choose parts of having a monarchy, ie we want a monarch but let's by-pass Charles. Its not pick and mix.

Charles will become Head of the Commonwealth the same moment he becomes King. To alter that, some PM or Head of State of the Commonwealth is going to have to say that they don't want this and I just can't see that happening.

I also see that there is enormous benefit in having a non-political Head of the Commonwealth.

This is completely separate from deciding whether or not a country wishes to continue to have the Queen/King as their Head of State. That is entirely their business.
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  #79  
Old 01-01-2013, 11:49 AM
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There is nothing automatic about the British monarch becoming Head of the Commonwealth, although I do agree that it is quite likely Charles will take on that role with the agreement of the Heads of Government.
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  #80  
Old 01-01-2013, 12:01 PM
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Are you saying that the Queen was selected/elected Head of the Comonwealth?

EDIT: Just check my notes and you are absolutely right! The post is for life, which is interesting because HMQ became Head of the Commonwealth when she ascended the throne.
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