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  #21  
Old 12-12-2010, 02:25 AM
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I think Australia will dump the royals so to speak also. They are far less interesting now unfortunately.
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  #22  
Old 12-12-2010, 04:31 AM
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Sorry, but it's hardly a secret that Charles doesn't become head of the commonwealth automatically.
All this wikileaks information is ridiculous.
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  #23  
Old 12-12-2010, 10:01 PM
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Does anyone know if another member of the family can become head of the commonwealth? For example: a lower member of the family so the commonwealth can keep their royal links but not the future monarch. After all the Queen is so busy in England she doesn't have time to devote a great deal of time to the Commonwealth and I think that will be the case no matter who is in charge.
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Old 12-12-2010, 10:33 PM
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I don't believe they would be in consideration, no. There's no reason for them to be really. Having any one other Windsor other than Charles succeed the Queen as Head of the Commonwealth would make little sense, imo.

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After all the Queen is so busy in England she doesn't have time to devote a great deal of time to the Commonwealth
I'm affraid that's far from the truth. The Queen is engaged every day with Commonwealth matters and as Queen of 16 of those Commonwealth states, undertakes her soverign duties (be it not always to the same extent as her physical priorities in Britain) as respectable monarch. Throughout her day, every day, Elizabeth isn't just Queen of the Great Britain and Northern Ireland, but also of Australia, Canada, New Zealand etc. Whether she be attending a function, unveiling a plark, or signing a document, if that undertaking does not involve the UK, then she in that moment is not acting as Queen of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, but as of Head of State to another country. The same is said for her duties as Head of the Commonwealth.

If she didn't have the time, she wouldn't be it's head and the Commonwealth is one of her foremost priorities as has been stated time and time again.
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  #25  
Old 12-13-2010, 01:29 AM
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I should have clarified that I was referring to her lack of tours in the commonwealth due to her age or other jobs. It is one thing to attend a meeting and sign a document it is another thing to tour these countries on a constant basis.

I just thought about another family member doing it because I thought that Prince Edward was the representative to the Commonwealth Games. I could be wrong though.
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  #26  
Old 12-13-2010, 02:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
I think the monarchy will survive in Britain but elsewhere - not so sure.

In Australia I really don't think it will last long into Charles' reign, if it even lasts that long. I know that there are suggestions now that nothing will be done in the present reign but it is also Labor Party policy to have a republic and was on their agenda to hold a plebiscite on the issue in their second term (which began last August, although a minority government which may give them an out). I do think, when they win a convincing majority at the next election it will be on the agenda. I do think that a simple plebiscite 'do you want Australia to be a republic' needs to be asked first and if a Yes response then we can move forward or if a No then we can continue with a foreigner as our Head of State.
Good point it will be much smaller by the time William takes over yet continue. I know he is popular it's the one thing that makes me think it could last but would it last beyond him?
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  #27  
Old 12-13-2010, 02:26 AM
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It is one thing to attend a meeting and sign a document it is another thing to tour these countries on a constant basis
Any tour is determined by the government of each country. It's only upon invitation, that the Queen should agree to visit. She doesn't just decide to undertake a tour without having been invited to do so. So her lack of presence throughout the Commonwealth on a more regular basis has nothing to do with her, but her various governments.
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  #28  
Old 12-13-2010, 04:52 AM
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Mostly, I agree with IluvBertie and Madame Royale. However, it's not just the Labor Party which promotes a Republic but many Liberal (Conservative) politicians as well.

Personally, I'm saddened by the trend, but it's inevitable, I think, once HM is no longer with us.

The Queen does visit upon invitation but she's ageing and, I believe, has said that she doesn't feel up to strenuous travel. Perfectly understandable, of course, as she works tremendously hard when she's here. She will make exceptions for what she deems very important, like Canada's centenary naval celebrations.

The Queen is Head of the Commonwealth which comprises 54 nations (currently, Fiji is suspended). She is Head of State of 16 of these. Should Australia become a republic it could remain in the Commonwealth, should we wish.
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  #29  
Old 12-13-2010, 05:02 AM
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Polly the reason why I mentioned the Labor Party is that the republic is official Labor Party policy. Of course many members of the Liberal Party are also republicans.

Should we become a republic it won't be up to us to remain in the Commonwealth but up to them as to whether or not they would like us to stay. We would have to apply to stay. So far no country that has applied has been denied although some have been suspended for a time, such as Fiji at the moment.
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  #30  
Old 12-14-2010, 02:01 AM
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I agree that the Queen probably does not feel up to travel but that does not explain why someone does not travel on her behalf. I suppose though that Prince Charles is the likely choice and he is not popular? Is Prince Charles not popular because of his remarriage? I admit I am not as familiar with how people view him throughout the commonwealth. Any opinions on why he is not seen as the natural successor?
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  #31  
Old 12-14-2010, 02:15 AM
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but that does not explain why someone does not travel on her behalf.
But as with the Queen, Charles would either need to be invited personally, or accept the invitation on behalf of his mother. So unless the invite is forthcoming, he doesn't undertake the tour.
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  #32  
Old 12-14-2010, 02:39 AM
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Originally Posted by jemagre View Post
I agree that the Queen probably does not feel up to travel but that does not explain why someone does not travel on her behalf. I suppose though that Prince Charles is the likely choice and he is not popular? Is Prince Charles not popular because of his remarriage? I admit I am not as familiar with how people view him throughout the commonwealth. Any opinions on why he is not seen as the natural successor?

Charles last came to Australia in 2005 and although well received was overshadowed by Mary who was here about the same time.

As for why Charles isn't seen as the natural successor it is to do with the fact that the majority of the countries in the Commonwealth don't have the British monarch as their Head of State anymore. When the Empire moved to the Commonwealth most countries kept the Queen as Head of State but now most don't have her and others are talking about moving to republics as well. As a result the other nations, who see themselves as all being equal, question whether or not the Head of State of any specific nation should head the Commonwealth rather than give that position to the Head of State of other countries e.g. India is the most populous - why shouldn't their Head of State have the opportunity to head the organisation?
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  #33  
Old 12-14-2010, 09:35 AM
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It is true that there are a number of commonwealth countries that are republics, and have been for some time. Most of them are quite comfortable with the British monarch as being the head of the commonwealth and there does not appear to be much press commentary on this in countries like India.

That said, I think Charles will appear a lot more credible as a potential successor to HM as the head of the commonwealth if he took a little more interest in commonwealth affairs, and attended all the CHOGM meetings. C&C attended the meetings in Uganda, but did not attend the sessions in T&T last year.
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Old 12-14-2010, 05:13 PM
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Thank you Iluvbertie and Muriel for your thoughts. I had heard that C&C were not well received in Uganda. Am I wrong?

(I am not trying to make this an anti C&C discussion thread just trying to understand the topic from people who know more than me.)
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Old 12-14-2010, 05:15 PM
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When did they go to Uganda?
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  #36  
Old 12-14-2010, 06:08 PM
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When did they go to Uganda?

CHOGM was in Uganda in 2007 and Charles and Camilla went with the Queen and DoE.
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  #37  
Old 12-15-2010, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by jemagre View Post
Thank you Iluvbertie and Muriel for your thoughts. I had heard that C&C were not well received in Uganda. Am I wrong?

(I am not trying to make this an anti C&C discussion thread just trying to understand the topic from people who know more than me.)
I do not remember reading anythiung at the time suggesting that they had not been received anything other than positively. It will be a slow process for Charles to build networks within the commonwealth and its leaders, and one I hope he actively takes up.
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  #38  
Old 12-15-2010, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by jemagre View Post
Thank you Iluvbertie and Muriel for your thoughts. I had heard that C&C were not well received in Uganda. Am I wrong?

(I am not trying to make this an anti C&C discussion thread just trying to understand the topic from people who know more than me.)
It was the recent trip to Canada that was not well recieved...poor turnout and coverage.
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  #39  
Old 12-16-2010, 08:11 PM
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I didn't realise that HM's trip to Canada wasn't well received. I always believed that the monarchy was most welcome in Canada, if only because it prevents Canada's being subsumed into the US. This last, of course, is not meant as any aspersion against America.

About Charles' standing in Australia. Well, he was rather popular, I believe, until the breakdown of his marriage with Diana. Without going into the wrongs and rights of all that past history, it's my opinion that his marriage to Camilla has made him even more unacceptable. Whether that's fair or not is another issue.

And then there's the issue of Lady Tryon, an Australian, and another alleged long-term mistress of Charles'. The animosity between her and Camilla over many years, when the prince, reportedly, divided his favours between the two of them, rankles with those who knew her, many of whom were/are influential, particularly as her death was such an appalling one.

In all honesty, republicanism has been gaining strength in Australia for decades. Prince Charles himself sounded most aggrieved when he offered himself as Governor General and was told 'no thanks'.

HM was born to Empire and embraced the notion of the Commonwealth with gusto. She is deeply admired in Australia, good woman that she is, and it's felt that her like will not be seen again. However, given the popularity of William when he visited, all is not yet lost. Interestingly, it seems to me that he's admired as his mother's son, but not his father's!

In diplomatic circles, I've read in the past, Camilla did not show to advantage while in Uganda. First, she was 'over-loaded' with millions of pounds of jewels (even I thought that she wore too many and too much) with a heavy tiara which doesn't flatter her, in my opinion, and that huge diamond necklace. Observers complained that she was insensitive to the economic stresses and abject poverty around her, and those countries which many CHOGM leaders represented, pointing out that HM was much more appropriately and modestly adorned.

There was also another, significant, motive to the Duchess's new majestic style, it was suggested. The Royal couple's four-day trip to Uganda was officially classed as an independent visit but it was seen by many as effectively a "job application" by Charles to succeed the Queen as head of the Commonwealth. It coincided with the Commonwealth Heads of Government meeting and is the first time the Prince has visited the same country as his mother at the same time for more than three decades.

Australians are often a puzzle to me. Whereas we readily embrace Mary as Crown Princess of Denmark, commoner that she once was, we object to Camilla and apparently resent her. Very odd.


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  #40  
Old 12-16-2010, 08:26 PM
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I didn't realise that HM's trip to Canada wasn't well received. I always believed that the monarchy was most welcome in Canada, if only because it prevents Canada's being subsumed into the US. This last, of course, is not meant as any aspersion against America.
As an American, I think I know what you mean. It's one of the things that makes Canada special and distinct from the U.S., at least in my opinion.
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