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  #101  
Old 12-26-2017, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
Exactly!! For all we know Meghan may have admired the brooch. Just because its a black face doesn't make it racist unless you know the history behind it. If Meghan said she was offended then Princess Michael should have apologised but as Jacqui said people don't need to act outraged for her.
Again, I think Meghan is just being put as a face of it for many who do not have her level of exposure but are offended. This goes beyond Meghan, and is an issue that should be addressed. And in PMKís apology, she didnít apologize to Meghan, but rather those who are offended by it, so obviously she understood what is really going on here.
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  #102  
Old 12-26-2017, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
Exactly!! For all we know Meghan may have admired the brooch. Just because its a black face doesn't make it racist unless you know the history behind it. If Meghan said she was offended then Princess Michael should have apologised but as Jacqui said people don't need to act outraged for her.

Well, that settles that than.

I love it when people of a particular race (and or sex) , tell another particular race (and or sex) what they should and should not be offended by. You know, cause its art and all that.

Thanks for the heads up.
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  #103  
Old 12-26-2017, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
Well, that settles that than.

I love it when people of a particular race (and or sex) , tell another particular race (and or sex) what they should and should not be offended by. You know, cause its art and all that.

Thanks for the heads up.
IKR? If you're offended, you're the one with the problem!
  #104  
Old 12-26-2017, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
Well, that settles that than.

I love it when people of a particular race (and or sex) , tell another particular race (and or sex) what they should and should not be offended by. You know, cause its art and all that.

Thanks for the heads up.
Thank you for saying this, Zonk.
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  #105  
Old 12-26-2017, 02:58 PM
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Two extracts from Wikipedia:

1) Blackamoor figures are sculptures and other depictions of exoticized figures, usually African males but sometimes other non-European races...often holding a tray or some other container, which was available for practical use[/I]...They often represent a conceit depicting a symbolic servant, and large examples of about half-size were placed on either sides of doorways, as real footmen might be...

Quote:
Some contemporary craftsmen continue to make individual pieces, but it is rare because of modern issues with the depiction of dark-skinned people as "exotic" and decorative.
The point being that this type of art was created to represent something that in the modern age today can be (and indeed is) offensive to people. The offence people feel should be respected and not dismissed.

Imagine a piece of jewellery was made depicting a prisoner in a war-camp, created to be worn by an SS officer as symbol of his empowerment over those he has imprisoned - it would be offensive for someone to wear such a thing wouldn't it?
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  #106  
Old 12-26-2017, 03:01 PM
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For what it's worth, I think this thread is a mistake.

Not coming back.
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  #107  
Old 12-26-2017, 03:12 PM
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For what it's worth, I think this thread is a mistake.

Not coming back.
Cepe...I hope this means you are not coming back to this thread and not TRF.

But the fact remains

1) Meghan Markel is biracial and she identifies and embraces ALL of heritage (as she should)
2) In 2018, sad as it is...some people still have problems with people of other races and/or religions
3) Since its been announced that Meghan was dating and now marrying into the British Royal Family, and with the advent of social media (and people hiding between keyboards anonymously), some have felt the need to no longer hide their dislike/hatred for those of a particular race and/or religion. I mean some of the posts are just hateful! I don't think I have ever hated anyone or anything that much!
4) The issue of race as it pertains to Meghan and/or the BRF is NOT going away and you can't hide from it.
5) Princess Michael of Kent's decision to wear her Moor brooch at the same time event that Meghan was to attend, whether you agree or not that it was offensive, continues to keep the issue of race in the forefront.

It's like the elephant in the room that won't go away. You can move around it, you can ignore it...but its still there in the corner...staring at you.

For what's its worth, the moderator team though long and hard about creating this thread. And we will shut it down in a HOT SECOND if it gets out of control. TRUST ME ON THAT!

I hope my fellow TRF members will not let me down. And although we might disagree on certain aspects of the discussion, we will do it civilly.
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  #108  
Old 12-26-2017, 03:19 PM
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I don't see the need to keep hashing this out. X folks think it is racist and/or in bad taste. Other folks consider it art and don't think it's offensive.

Ne'er the twain shall meet. Why keep arguing about it?


LaRae
  #109  
Old 12-26-2017, 03:20 PM
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Iím pleased with the decision by the moderator team to not gloss over or hide from this issue. Ignoring racism doesnít help people learn to do better. Honest and open conversation is important.
  #110  
Old 12-26-2017, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
I don't see the need to keep hashing this out. X folks think it is racist and/or in bad taste. Other folks consider it art and don't think it's offensive.

Ne'er the twain shall meet. Why keep arguing about it?


LaRae
I don't know...maybe because we are discussion forum?

I mean if that is the case, why are we still taking about anything? We still discuss the Duke and Duchess of Windsor (their relationship and its impact on the Monarchy) , what type of King Charles/William be, the role of Prince Henrik of Denmark, etc. Any and all of these topics have opposing views.
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  #111  
Old 12-26-2017, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Ne'er the twain shall meet. Why keep arguing about it?
Amen to that...
  #112  
Old 12-26-2017, 03:23 PM
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This isn't honest and open conversation though...this is just an argument that keeps going around and around ..from the old thread to the new one. Effectively it's just I'm right and you're wrong being posted back and forth.



LaRae
  #113  
Old 12-26-2017, 03:24 PM
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help people learn to do better.
Patronising MUCH ?
  #114  
Old 12-26-2017, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Ne'er the twain shall meet. Why keep arguing about it?


LaRae
Why did we keep arguing about a dress that’s privately purchased? I’d think this topic would be more controversial than that, but the freak out over that was much bigger than this. My issue with it is that somehow that was seen as bad optics, but somehow wearing a brooch with strong connotations of racism and colonism by a member of the royal family to lunch at Buckingham Palace with the Queen and future monarchs is acceptable. Talk about messed up priorities.

ETA: I’m not saying you did this, but just pointing out some themes I’ve noticed on here.
  #115  
Old 12-26-2017, 03:37 PM
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One of the key reasons why this thread was opened was to contain discussions on the issue of race (in particular pertaining to the fact that Meghan is bi-racial) in one place rather than spread throughout various other threads.

It is a discussion that people appear to have an interest in discussing as and when the topic arises (the British Royal Family Christmas thread is a clear example of an issue arising that did not fit in that thread and was also discussed in a few other threads).

We believe that as time goes on other issues or discussion points relating to the subject will arise in the future.

I am sure members of this Forum can discuss and debate the issue in a mature and productive way.
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  #116  
Old 12-26-2017, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
This isn't honest and open conversation though...this is just an argument that keeps going around and around ..from the old thread to the new one. Effectively it's just I'm right and you're wrong being posted back and forth.



LaRae


I agree that there are certainly some (on both sides of the issue) who are seemingly incapable of having an open conversation about this.

However some is not all, and itís an important conversation to have - not so much for those who want to ignore what anyone else has to say, but for those who are open to hearing what other people have to say and want to make the world better. Itís important that we as people continue talking about the things that are hard to talk about, like racism, otherwise we close ourselves off to change.

Further, in having a thread like this, TRF is clearly designating the place for the conversation about race and racism - that way the threads about the BRF at Christmas, Princess Michaelís jewelry, and really anything to do with Meghan, etc., arenít completely overrun by the discussion of racism. That way the poster who wants to talk about dresses and tiaras can do so without having to wade through pages of a fight about a broach. But those who want to discuss the issues surrounding the broach have a place to do so.

And letís be honest here, the issue is not just the broach. Even before Meghan had several threads or ever met PMK, the Harry/Meghan relationship thread was constantly being bogged down with this issue.

The intention of this thread is not to give people a place to fight, but rather a place to have a civil conversation without taking over other threads. If it becomes just a thread full of people fighting, it will be closed down.
  #117  
Old 12-26-2017, 03:43 PM
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Well, i'm with Cepe on this.. and out of here...
  #118  
Old 12-26-2017, 03:53 PM
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The British Royal Family: Race & Racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
Well, that settles that than.

I love it when people of a particular race (and or sex) , tell another particular race (and or sex) what they should and should not be offended by. You know, cause its art and all that.

Thanks for the heads up.

So in other words, this thread was opened by the Mods on the understanding that everybody agreed with the Mods? Anyone who doesnít feel it was a racist move will just be sidelined, mocked or have their posts removed?

Very Animal Farm.
  #119  
Old 12-26-2017, 03:55 PM
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Because thatís exactly the line youíve taken with that sarcastic intolerant response to a poster who doesnít agree with what seems to be the party line - anyone who doesnít feel it was racist wonít be treated with respect, anyone who does feel it was racist can say what they please.
  #120  
Old 12-26-2017, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cepe View Post
For what it's worth, I think this thread is a mistake.

Not coming back.
I fully agree with you. Given the previous flare-up, it is not shrewd to dedicate a special thread to the topic. The discussion per se is running in a circle and will do so in the foreseeable future.
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