The British Royal Family: Race & Racism

[Empress Merel]

I´m not accussing you of anything. I´ve always found you one of the most enlightened and thoughtful posters on this forum.

I´m just tired of old, white people being excused for their ignorance and racism because of their age. In the current political and societal sphere, this sh.t needs to be called out for what it is.

 

[HereditaryPrincess]

I´m not accussing you of anything. I´ve always found you one of the most enlightened and thoughtful posters on this forum.

I´m just tired of old, white people being excused for their ignorance and racism because of their age. In the current political and societal sphere, this sh.t needs to be called out for what it is.

I didn't say you were - I was just defending my view point and explaining from my view. But thank you - I'm glad that you appreciate my posts, that was nice to hear.

I apologise if I caused any misunderstandings, hopefully we can leave this discussion on good terms.

 

[wyevale]

let sleeping dogs lie.

Dream on ! The PC brigade 'have it in for her' and NEVER let these things go...
They 'want her guts for garters', and If I were her l'd not relish the prospect of appearing in Public again soon...

 

[Gaudete]

Dream on ! The PC brigade 'have it in for her' and NEVER let these things go...
They 'want her guts for garters', and If I were her l'd not relish the prospect of appearing in Public again soon...

So true unfortunately. And once the SJWs get a taste of blood, they don’t stop. It’s amazing anyone dares to leave the house these days. The whole sorry business was unfortunate but it hasn’t changed my opinion of HRH at all. And again, considering the rather worrisome Christmas that lays ahead for the Kent family, I hope they can put this past them and find some joy in the season to celebrate.

 

[Nico]

I know it has been talked to death but Princess Michael of Kent has responded to the brooch controversy.

https://twitter.com/x/status/944266986363736067

She plans on retiring the item and she is very apologetic.

Unbelievable.
That' i call a public humiliation, not less. And for what ? A brooch !
Hold your hats PC Brigade, because this dear Meghan will face some other so called unpleasant objects in the collections of the former rulers of the most powerful colonial empire.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/03/article-0-18CF2262000005DC-275_634x438.jpg

Let's throw another member of the BRF under the bus for some random reason, just to feed the good conscience of the sofa based and self proclaimed "human values" defenders.

Phlip be careful, you're the next !

 

[HRHHermione]

I really am not here for hearing people speak demeaningly about those who care about racial justice, righting historical wrongs, and treating people as all alike in human value and dignity as “SJWs” and “the PC brigade”.

 

[Empress Merel]

Yes, won't somebody think of the poor, priviliged, white people.. They have it rough.

 

[CrownPrincessJava]

It's time to quit using age or generational differences as an excuse to be this insensitive, tactless and flat out racist. Doesn't matter either if she intended it to be racist or not. It's still racist, no matter how you look at it and I´m not going to feel sorry for her either. You have got to be living under the biggest rock to think that brooch was a good idea.

This!!!

 

[Curbside]

I think if you have offended someone, even unintentionally, it's not public humiliation to apologize.

 

[Dman]

I try not to get into PMK. She knew what she was doing and proudly wore it knowing the history behind it. She’s very into history. She’s not dumb.

 

[Abbigail]

Yes, won't somebody think of the poor, priviliged, white people.. They have it rough.

Says a lot that there seemed to be more pearl clutching over the cost of a dress than Princess Michael wearing a racially insensitive brooch. And I'm referring to the media as well. I don't believe there was even a mention of Princess Michael's awful fashion choice in the UK press until the American media picked up on it. That's not a good look at all.

 

[Frelinghighness]

Of course she did it on purpose

 

[Zaira]

Says a lot that there seemed to be more pearl clutching over the cost of a dress than Princess Michael wearing a racially insensitive brooch. And I'm referring to the media as well. I don't believe there was even a mention of Princess Michael's awful fashion choice in the UK press until the American media picked up on it. That's not a good look at all.

Indeed. Look no further than Palmers twitter rn.

 

[jacqui24]

Indeed. Look no further than Palmers twitter rn.

Honestly, Richard Palmer’s defensive reaction tells me the feedback on his article was pretty bad.

 

[sophie25]

Just one last thing on Princess Michael and broochgate. Why is it being presumed that because she wears a brooch depicting a black person that it means she dislikes black people? It could in fact be argued that it shows the opposite is true. What a non story this whole thing is.

 

[wyevale]

because she wears a brooch depicting a black person that it means she dislikes black people?

Presumably because it 'suits their narrative' ? There is NO evidence that Ms Markle has been welcomed in the BRF, and in Britain generally with anything other than open arms, which must be a disappointment to those who like to think we are a hotbed of recidivist racists and imperialists.

 

[Nico]

Presumably because it 'suits their narrative' ? There is NO evidence that Ms Markle has been welcomed in the BRF, and in Britain generally with anything other than open arms, which must be a disappointment to those who like to think we are a hotbed of recidivist racists and imperialists.

Hear, hear !

 

[Dman]

The history behind that brooch is deep, dark and very much offensive. Which is the reason why Princess Michael wore it for everyone to see.

She chose to wear this brooch on the very day she was due to meet Ms. Markle at the extended family luncheon.

Everyone got her message. Loud and clear. She’s ignorant!

 

[Osipi]

The history behind that brooch is deep, dark and very much offensive. Which is the reason why Princess Michael wore it for everyone to see.

She chose to wear this brooch on the very day she was due to meet Ms. Markle at the extended family luncheon.

Everyone got her message. Loud and clear. She’s ignorant!

Wow. A mind reader in our midst. Drats. My crystal ball is in the shop still so I can't confirm or deny your statements.

Can I ask just how you *know* for a fact what Princess Michael was thinking and what her intentions were? I would really love to learn your mind reading methods.

 

[JessRulz]

In light of recent discussion and inspite of our reservations,
this thread has been created in order to discuss the issue of race and racism and the British Royal Family.

However, this thread will be moderated carefully and the following rules will apply to the thread without exception:

1) Posts deemed to be of a racist/prejudiced nature or could be construde as being racist/prejudiced will be removed without notice.
2) Posts made or deemed to be made with an agenda to attract negative responses or to disrupt the discussion will also be removed.
3) Accusations of racism against any member of the forum, journalists/reporters or other entities outside of the forum will be removed - members are requested to report any posts they take issue with rather than responding to them within the thread.
4) Disrespectful posts made accusing other posters of being a part of "the PC brigade", "snowflakes", "SJWs", etc will be removed.
5) Members are reminded to be respectful of one another and to pay particular attention to the sensitivity of the subject.

Failure to comply with the above may result in membership being suspended, and with further violation of the rules resulting in a possible ban.

Please be aware that in the event the Moderating Team feel this thread has outlived its usefulness or that the discussion cannot continue,
the thread will be closed and not reopened.
​

The Moderating Team requests that all members carefully read the above guidelines prior to posting in this thread.

 

[Queen Claude]

I try not to get into PMK. She knew what she was doing and proudly wore it knowing the history behind it. She’s very into history. She’s not dumb.

The history behind that brooch is deep, dark and very much offensive. Which is the reason why Princess Michael wore it for everyone to see.

She chose to wear this brooch on the very day she was due to meet Ms. Markle at the extended family luncheon.

Everyone got her message. Loud and clear. She’s ignorant!

What about when Harry wore the shirt with the swastika on it? The history behind the swastika is far more known than the history behind the brooch. I am not going to go too far out of my way to defend Princess Michael but I think that it is a slippery slope when you start ascribing attitudes and motives to people.

 

[jacqui24]

What about when Harry wore the shirt with the swastika on it? The history behind the swastika is far more known than the history behind the brooch. I am not going to go too far out of my way to defend Princess Michael but I think that it is a slippery slope when you start ascribing attitudes and motives to peopule.

Harry got a lot of **** for that, and rightfully so. Til this day, some people still hate him for it even though he has grown up quite a bit overall since then. I remember people bring this up and snark about him when the news came out about him dating Meghan, who is biracial. But it is different when one is being stupid and insensitive when they are 20 and then grow up and show over time that that’s not who they are. It’s different when you are 70. I’m not saying PMK did it on purpose to offend or anything. I quite frankly don’t care to guess how that came about, but that’s a rather poor comparison.

 

[wyevale]

Regarding the 'Tempest in a Teacup' that [briefly] RAGED in the ' meejah' over Princess Michaels decision to wear a brooch depicting a 'Moor' to the first Royal Christmas Lunch attended by Ms Markle in Britain...

Some [mostly foreigners] are OUTRAGED, citing it as clear evidence of racism against Ms Markle..

'Difference' and the 'exotic' has been celebrated in art [especially in 'decorative art' such as jewelry] for centuries..
Consider the massive vogue for Chinoiserie or [less well known] 'Turquerie', celebrations of little understood 'far-away' places that captured European imaginations,at a time when very few people travelled and got 'first-hand' knowledge of the wider World.

Should these often charming, often naive representations of the 'other' be put away forever because their original purpose [to intrigue, enchant and give pleasure] has been misunderstood ?

I really don't think so..
The brooch depicted a man wearing a Turban, but were Muslims or Hindus or Sikhs incensed ?

There is not a shred of evidence that Princess Michael intended to offend, that Ms Markle was offended ,or that ANYONE within the BRF or in wider Britain beyond is anything other than delighted for the affianced, and at Ms Markle's decision to make this country her home.

 

[Queen Claude]

Harry got a lot of **** for that, and rightfully so. Til this day, some people still hate him for it even though he has grown up quite a bit overall since then. I remember people bring this up and snark about him when the news came out about him dating Meghan, who is biracial. But it is different when one is being stupid and insensitive when they are 20 and then grow up and show over time that that’s not who they are. It’s different when you are 70. I’m not saying PMK did it on purpose to offend or anything. I quite frankly don’t care to guess how that came about, but that’s a rather poor comparison.

IMO, regardless of how young he was, there is no way that Harry could not have known what a swastika represents and I get that for some people it will forever define Harry for them. By the same token, I can see that for some people the brooch and other acts will forever define Princess Michael.

I agree with you that Harry got a lot of crap for it and some people (although likely a small number) have not gotten over it and the same will happen to Princess Michael which is understandable.

I don't think it is a poor comparison but your comment, "I’m not saying PMK did it on purpose to offend or anything" shows that you are not rushing to judgement about Princess Michael's motives. Again I am not trying to defend Princess Michael nor am I bothered by the blowback but I am cautioning against too many people jumping on the bandwagon and being so quick and strident to assign motives to people.

 

[jacqui24]

Regarding the 'Tempest in a Teacup' that [briefly] RAGED in the ' meejah' over Princess Michaels decision to wear a brooch depicting a 'Moor' to the first Royal Christmas Lunch attended by Ms Markle in Britain...

Some [mostly foreigners] are OUTRAGED, citing it as clear evidence of racism against Ms Markle..

'Difference' and the 'exotic' has been celebrated in art [especially in 'decorative art' such as jewelry] for centuries..
Consider the massive vogue for Chinoiserie or [less well known] 'Turquerie', celebrations of little understood 'far-away' places that captured European imaginations,at a time when very few people travelled and got 'first-hand' knowledge of the wider World.

Should these often charming, often naive representations of the 'other' be put away forever because their original purpose [to intrigue, enchant and give pleasure] has been misunderstood ?

I really don't think so..
The brooch depicted a man wearing a Turban, but were Muslims or Hindus or Sikhs incensed ?

There is not a shred of evidence that Princess Michael intended to offend, that Ms Markle was offended ,or that ANYONE within the BRF or in wider Britain beyond is anything other than delighted for the affianced, and at Ms Markle's decision to make this country her home.

Honestly, I think the outrage isn’t necessarily from the possibility that Meghan might be offended. It’s, rather, that people themselves are offended by it. And right now, Meghan serves as a symbol of it. Quite like how every time the issue of Harry and hunting comes out, all the headlines are wondering how Meghan would be offended by it. In reality, it’s the animal rights activist and those that are offended by hunting itself more than Meghan is.

As for the art aspect, some hotels that displayed such figurines have received petitions to remove those figurines. So it’s certainly not just against PMK. PMK can wear her brooch whenever she want for whatever reason she wants in private obviously. However, wearing it to he Queen’s lunch at BP where they know photographers will be waiting outside does open her up to criticism. Add on top of that, it’s the first Christmas lunch the soon to be newest member of the family, first in modern history (trying to stay away from the Queen Charlotte debate), is attending does add attention to the race aspects of it. Given your views on optics on little things like cost of a privately purchased dress, I’m surprised you don’t understand the problem here.

And it’s not specifically about the turban. The blackamoor figurines have generally been associated with slavery and colonialism overall. I don’t know if there are backlash from Muslims or others overall, we just haven’t seen it here. And Meghan being the first biracial woman to marry into this family does serve as a symbol for many and some do feel that they can relate more to the royal family now because she is part of it. I’ve seen it being openly discussed in television by people of color. So I do think when there is such attention on that, the people of color will taken more attention on this than Muslims, Hindus or Sikhs. I don’t know if this would’ve even gotten into the headlines have they not been able to attach Meghan to it. So in a way, it is giving voice to people of color here.

 

[tommy100]

Honestly, I think the outrage isn’t necessarily from the possibility that Meghan might be offended. It’s, rather, that people themselves are offended by it. And right now, Meghan serves as a symbol of it. Quite like how every time the issue of Harry and hunting comes out, all the headlines are wondering how Meghan would be offended by it. In reality, it’s the animal rights activist and those that are offended by hunting itself more than Meghan is.

As for the art aspect, some hotels that displayed such figurines have received petitions to remove those figurines. So it’s certainly not just against PMK. PMK can wear her brooch whenever she want for whatever reason she wants in private obviously. However, wearing it to he Queen’s lunch at BP where they know photographers will be waiting outside does open her up to criticism. Add on top of that, it’s the first Christmas lunch the soon to be newest member of the family, first in modern history (trying to stay away from the Queen Charlotte debate), is attending does add attention to the race aspects of it. Given your views on optics on little things like cost of a privately purchased dress, I’m surprised you don’t understand the problem here.

Exactly!! For all we know Meghan may have admired the brooch. Just because its a black face doesn't make it racist unless you know the history behind it. If Meghan said she was offended then Princess Michael should have apologised but as Jacqui said people don't need to act outraged for her.

 

[wyevale]

There is NO protection against 'those that WISH to take offence' [in this 'day and age'].

Princess Michael [and anybody] is free to wear whatever she chooses, wherever she chooses, provided 'public decency' is not transgressed.
It is in the nature of a 'free society' that 'Sumptuary laws' are abolished, enabling individuals to wear whatever they choose [such as a chador, or Hijab] despite the fact that their choice may be displeasing to some.

 

[Nico]

The history behind that brooch is deep, dark and very much offensive. Which is the reason why Princess Michael wore it for everyone to see.

She chose to wear this brooch on the very day she was due to meet Ms. Markle at the extended family luncheon.

Everyone got her message. Loud and clear. She’s ignorant!

How ridiculous and overly dramatic.
It's like called out the Queen as imperialist because she wears the Cullinan brooches.
In a way wearing this brooch could be seen as the ultimate proof that PM is not racist : she didn't see the problem to wear it in front of Ms Markel because she precisely didn't see her as a biracial , but as a welcomed future member of the BRF.

But this theory is far less juicy i guess, and how easy to be offensive and to jump to the darkest conclusions (and PM is of course an easy target).

And again let's take a look at the exact definition of a "moor" shall we :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moors

 

[HRHHermione]

There is NO protection against 'those that WISH to take offence' [in this 'day and age'].

Princess Michael [and anybody] is free to wear whatever she chooses, wherever she chooses, provided 'public decency' is not transgressed.
It is in the nature of a 'free society' that 'Sumptuary laws' are abolished, enabling individuals to wear whatever they choose [such as a chador, or Hijab] despite the fact that their choice may be displeasing to some.

Of course she’s allowed to wear what she’d like- just as people are allowed to respond, pointing out when something is in poor taste or in the case of this brooch, linked to a deeply racist history.

 

[ladongas]

PMK has shown poor judgement in the past when choosing her apparel for special occasions. The dress that she wore to her son’s wedding was almost shockingly rude.
I’ve often wondered what her daughter-in-law thought.