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  #261  
Old 02-22-2018, 01:39 PM
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A threat is a threat though. If someone is out to get me I don’t really care what their motivation is.

If Meghan wasn’t biracial she’d still be under constant threat.
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  #262  
Old 02-22-2018, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
A threat is a threat though. If someone is out to get me I don’t really care what their motivation is.

If Meghan wasn’t biracial she’d still be under constant threat.
No one is saying she wouldn't be under constant threat, we are just saying there is an additional element to it. Of course, if someone just wants to attack members of the royal family, they'll do so to any of them. However, with Meghan Markle, there are racists that will go to the length even if they didn't care about the royal family before. In fact, with what we saw with Jo Marney, Meghan is being resented and attacked because she's seen as "tainting" the royal family as well. That's an element that isn't there for other members.
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  #263  
Old 02-22-2018, 01:48 PM
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I see your point, ACO. But my point is that when I see Meghan I see first and foremost an American.

If I sat in a bus looking at Meghan I would have problems figuring out whether she has Arabian, Indian, African, Native American or Inuit DNA in her for that matter.
Her features IMO are not so distinctive that a neon sign would pop up above my head reading: Wow! She's black!

In recent years there was a tendency to have a song and dance act each time a homosexual went out. Now it's so common that few really cares. Actually it's IMO become a bit annoying when someone makes a big deal out of it. - Because it's become normal. And that has happened in less than 30 years.
And that's what I mean by suffocating racism.
  #264  
Old 02-22-2018, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soapstar View Post
How absolutely frightening. I wonder if this is a copycat? Obama and Don Trump Jr. were also recently sent letters with a white substance.
Could very well be. There seems to a lot recently

On February 13, another letter containing white power was sent to the U.K.’s Parliament building, addressed to Home Secretary Amber Rudd. The letter prompted an evacuation of some parts of the building, though later tests showed that the powder it contained was harmless.
  #265  
Old 02-22-2018, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
I see your point, ACO. But my point is that when I see Meghan I see first and foremost an American.

If I sat in a bus looking at Meghan I would have problems figuring out whether she has Arabian, Indian, African, Native American or Inuit DNA in her for that matter.
Her features IMO are not so distinctive that a neon sign would pop up above my head reading: Wow! She's black!

In recent years there was a tendency to have a song and dance act each time a homosexual went out. Now it's so common that few really cares. Actually it's IMO become a bit annoying when someone makes a big deal out of it. - Because it's become normal. And that has happened in less than 30 years.
And that's what I mean by suffocating racism.
I see what you mean but I just don't really agree in that approach. I don't need people focusing on people's race, sexuality, religion or whatever. People are people and that should be the focus. Who are are as a person. Not the other stuff that people want to define you as. But don't ignore it when those differences are used as a weapon against you.

As said, I am a person of color. I have dealt with racism and it is infuriating and frustrating. So it is a bit of a trigger when someone wants to downplay it. Meghan is biracial and while some might not can tell that others very much can and will use it against her.

This threat is serious and I am glad they are taking it seriously.
  #266  
Old 02-22-2018, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
I see your point. But my point is that when I see Meghan I see first and foremost an American.

If I sat in a bus looking at Meghan I would have problems figuring out whether she has Arabian, Indian, African, Native American or Inuit DNA in her for that matter.
Her features IMO are not so distinctive that a neon sign would pop up above my head reading: Wow! She's black!

In recent years there was a tendency to have a song and dance act each time a homosexual went out. Now it's so common that few really cares. Actually it's IMO become a bit annoying when someone makes a big deal out of it. - Because it's become normal. And that has happened in less than 30 years.
And that's what I mean by suffocating racism.
Unfortunately, not everyone sees people the way you do. If they all did, racism wouldn't be an issue and we wouldn't be here talking about a racially motivated threat towards her right now. Bottom line is, it's a celebration because they are groups that are undermined and discriminated against in the past and are just begin to be widely accepted as equals in recent times. And there is celebration for those that now feel like they can relate to a member of the royal family. Of course there will be people that doesn't like it, but to have racially charged insults thrown at her and even threats like this is on another level.
  #267  
Old 02-22-2018, 02:43 PM
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According to the press this incident is being treated as a hate crime. I didn't know there were hate crime laws in the UK. If they catch this guy or gal watch the lawyer say it was a joke or free speech or hope Harry and break up over this, especially if that person faces heavy jail time. All public figures face threats and people of color have the racial element thrown in. I'm glad H and M are still having their engagement with Will and Kate, showing they will not be scared off and a show of solidarity. People who root for Meghan and Harry will root for them more.
  #268  
Old 02-22-2018, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
I didn't know there were hate crime laws in the UK.
Probably some of toughest in the world. You only need to look at someone the wrong way to be charged with a hate crime in the U.K.
  #269  
Old 02-22-2018, 03:11 PM
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The British Royal Family: Race & Racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
I don't think the racial issue matters so much.
H&M are a high profile couple, so they are bound to attract nutcases, who for whatever reasons could come up with things like that.

Keep in mind the way Kate has been under attack.
There are many nutters who seriously hate Kate, basically because she's Kate. It is no different for Meghan.
I think such letters are more common than we think, we just don't hear about them. - And IMO it's better that way. Because now more nutcases will begin to send letters containing all sorts of powder.


I absolutely agree with you. Its their staff that see these letters and have to deal with them anyway Its best that these people don’t get the attention they are trying to get.
  #270  
Old 02-22-2018, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
According to the press this incident is being treated as a hate crime. I didn't know there were hate crime laws in the UK. If they catch this guy or gal watch the lawyer say it was a joke or free speech or hope Harry and break up over this, especially if that person faces heavy jail time. All public figures face threats and people of color have the racial element thrown in. I'm glad H and M are still having their engagement with Will and Kate, showing they will not be scared off and a show of solidarity. People who root for Meghan and Harry will root for them more.
Freedom of speech doesn't give someone a right to terrorize another person. What did they think they were doing when they send white powder in an envelope?
  #271  
Old 02-22-2018, 05:04 PM
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Since the days when history was clouded in the mists of time, there has always been the concept of "them" and "us". Differences that put "labels" on people. Some "labels" were set to elevate one kind of difference above another kind of difference to the "us" group while the "them" group thought the opposite. And so it permeated everything even up to today.

I think its more fitting to use the term "hate crime" rather than "racist". It simply could have been that Meghan was targeted for being "Western" or being "American" or for being in the "entertainment industry" and not because she's "black". Those that take action against anyone because of a "label" are doing so because they abhor those with a certain "label". Racism against people of color is actually one of many, many other reasons to dislike something about another person.

One way to solve this would be for a mass migration of entities from another planet somewhere that have three eyes and bluish skin and an ear on their forehead. That would definitely put all our biases against other humans into a unified "us" category with "them" now becoming the target of dislike because of being different.

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  #272  
Old 02-22-2018, 05:05 PM
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From what I've read a similar package with white powder was recently sent to the Palace of Westminster, which houses both Houses of Parliament. Police are apparently investigating if they're linked.

If so, I'm not sure this is really about Meghan at all.
  #273  
Old 02-22-2018, 05:14 PM
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But there was a racist message attached to the packet to Meghan/Harry.
  #274  
Old 02-22-2018, 05:20 PM
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With the definition of racist being that "racism is the belief in the superiority of one race over another, which often results in discrimination and prejudice towards people based on their race or ethnicity.", its very possible that the racist remarks were being generated to both Harry and Meghan because they're not of Middle Eastern descent.

Racism isn't something that is totally in black and white terms. We don't know the content of the message sent.
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  #275  
Old 02-22-2018, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
With the definition of racist being that "racism is the belief in the superiority of one race over another, which often results in discrimination and prejudice towards people based on their race or ethnicity.", its very possible that the racist remarks were being generated to both Harry and Meghan because they're not of Middle Eastern descent.

Racism isn't something that is totally in black and white terms. We don't know the content of the message sent.
It is true we don't the details but of it is enough for them to launch a racial hate crime investigation then clearly what was listed was enough for them to consider it racist. It might just be as simple as that. I don't really get the need to dance around something obvious. Yes racism isn't just black and white but in this case with Meghan it seems it was very much that.
  #276  
Old 02-22-2018, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
According to the press this incident is being treated as a hate crime. I didn't know there were hate crime laws in the UK. If they catch this guy or gal watch the lawyer say it was a joke or free speech or hope Harry and break up over this, especially if that person faces heavy jail time. All public fig
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
Probably some of toughest in the world. You only need to look at someone the wrong way to be charged with a hate crime in the U.K.ures face threats and people of color have the racial element thrown in.
If someone is caught and charged in connection with this crime if they have watched too many American TV crime shows they will find, to their utter dismay, that the law doesn't have a sense of humour and "jokes" such as this are crimes, e.g. saying you have a bomb on a plane or yelling fire in a darkened theatre. When they witter on about free speech, they will find there actually is no right to "free speech" per se.

Rudolph is correct that the UK hate crimes are some of the toughest in the world.
Quote:
Any criminal offence can be a hate crime if it was carried out because of hostility or prejudice based on disability, race, religion, transgender identity or sexual orientation.

When something is classed as a hate crime, the judge can impose a tougher sentence on the offender under the Criminal Justice Act 2003.
The link below is to the Citizen's Advice where they really nail the subject.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/la...nd-hate-crime/
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  #277  
Old 02-22-2018, 06:51 PM
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I just prefer to err on the side of caution and never put forward something that "seems to be" as a fact.

It is easy though to define a racist remark against Meghan though as being pertinent to her African-American heritage. It is the prevalent difference about Meghan that has been focused on since Harry began dating her.

Then again, there are many, many people out there that spend a lot of green dollars and hours in the sun to get the beautiful tone of skin that Meghan is blessed with and there are equally enough people in the world that should then spend too much time in the sun, resemble a lobster and will never attain that glorious complexion and wish they could.

I like to think those that are "racist" in any shape or form are those with a way of thinking that is on the decline.
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  #278  
Old 02-22-2018, 09:08 PM
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I am constantly amazed at the lengths people go to dismiss or blissfully ignore racism, and in Meghan's case, anti-black racism. Meghan was targeted because she is part black. Period. That is distinctive from the way other members of the family are targeted and new territory.

We know from reports for the past couple of months from royal reporters that security is tighter for Harry and Meghan than for other members of the family. Three guesses as to what makes Meghan different from other BRF brides to be? If Meghan was a white American I can guarantee you that the vitriol would be less. There are some very very deranged people out there---yes even more IMO than with Kate.

I am glad some people on here can be "color blind" but the world is not, and frankly I have yet to meet a person in my life whose racial biases don't come out eventually. Not all racist where hoods. Most are everyday good people who have been socialised to view POC a certain way, even if they do not or will not recognize it. I say this as someone who is part white and who loves my white family but also has dealt with their casual racism even though they will swear up and down that they are not and that they do not see color.

And racism isn't going away. Not by a long shot. I hear some of the most racist crap from people my own age and I am 25. It is in no way on the decline.

I truly hope Harry knows how to be ally to Meghan.
  #279  
Old 02-22-2018, 10:06 PM
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I agree that it's not helpful to dance around this subject and not call it for what it is. In Harry's statement when the story about them dating first came out, he clearly spelled out one of the problems being the racial undertones of opinion pieces and the flat out racist and sexist remarks by internet trolls. I think we can all agree that he wasn't talking about people of Middle East descent being racist about the European part of her heritage. Let's not pretend that her race hasn't been an issue since day one, and particular the African American part of her race that's been a problem for some. I'm not sure why some find it so easy to dismiss the racial aspect of how Meghan has been treated.

And Zaira, I actually didn't know that security has been tighter for Meghan and Harry than others. Where did you read that? Honestly, I don't know how they do this. They likely have been briefed on this right before the Edinburgh visit (we know the package was received the day before), and yet still carried out the visit knowing this. I'd be so frightened.
  #280  
Old 02-22-2018, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACO View Post
It is true we don't the details but of it is enough for them to launch a racial hate crime investigation then clearly what was listed was enough for them to consider it racist. It might just be as simple as that. I don't really get the need to dance around something obvious. Yes racism isn't just black and white but in this case with Meghan it seems it was very much that.
It is norkmal in the Uk for police to operate on the worse case scenario. Obvious example would be treating a death as murder but it might (after investigation) be manslaughter (2nd degree murder or less (I think) in the US).
So they will do the same here - added necessity because of who is involved. The letter was sent to both H and M and the content of the note might refer to both as well. They wont give out all the info.
She is very safe so little need for worry.
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