The British Nobility thread 1: Ending 2022


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Earl of Lucan title

The last Earl of Lucan disappeared a lot of years ago, and nobody knows if he is still alive or dead; although he has been declared dead, his son can't use his title because it is not sure that Lord Lucan has really died.
What will happen to this title in the future? I mean, in 2050 or 2060 surely the last Earl will be dead, but probably nobody will know when and where; so, will his descendants be allowed to use the title again, or will it remain vacant forever?
And what will happen to his seat at the House of Lords? Will it remain vacant for the same reason?
 
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At some point the son can apply to have his father declared legally dead and thus would be able to use and inherit everything according to law.
After the reforms of the House of Lords in 1999 I don't think Lord Lucan's seat existed anymore.
 
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Richard Bingham, 7th Earl of Lucan was declared legally dead in October 1999.
No death certificate has yet been granted, however. As a result, while Lord Bingham may be presumed to be the 8th Earl of Lucan, it is still not officially recognised. This does not prevent him from styling himself the 8th Earl of Lucan.
But I don't think he can take his fathers seat in the HOL.
 
however the 107th edition of burkes peerage (published in 2003) , does list the missing earl's son as the currant 8th earl of lucan (in the peerage of ireland).

on 11 dec 1992 mr justice morriot of the high ct chancery div gave the trustees of lord bingham, the liberty to administer his father's estate under the presumption that the 7th earl was dead: in addition, leave was granted to have the 7th earls death sworn in the high ct family div: following the custom of succession to unidisputed irish peerages.

it has been said that after the 7th earl was presumed / declared dead his son lord bingham automatically succeeds to his father's titles......therefore he assumed his father's irish title as the 8th earl: he also applied on 8 dec 1998 for a writ of summons to the house of lords regarding the family barony of baron bingham in the uk peerage, but this was refused !!

and yes like many others peers of the realm, he does not have a right to sit in the house of lords due to the reforms of 1999 !!

btw the 8th earl does not choose to use the title !!
 
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lady lucan's website

this website may be of interest to you....as the widow of the 7th earl has given a detailed explanation into the matter.....
however i did post a link to the site, but this was not successful....the internet could not display the page apparently !!!
well thats how the cookie crumbles sometimes....:sad:
 
Winston Spencer-Churchill, the namesake grandson of wartime Prime Minster Sir Winston, and himself a conservative former Member of the House of Commons, has died yesterday at his home in Belgravia, London; he was 69 years old, and was suffering of cancer.
Winston Churchill - Telegraph
Winston S. Churchill 1940-2010
 
Emeralds and Opals said:
Aristocracy is dead, says Chatsworth's duke - Times Online

"Aristocracy is dead, says Chatsworth's duke."
Click to expand...

So he is talking about giving up the title huh...I wonder if he is going to give up the money as well.

MAfan said:
Winston Spencer-Churchill, the namesake grandson of wartime Prime Minster Sir Winston, and himself a conservative former Member of the House of Commons, has died yesterday at his home in Belgravia, London; he was 69 years old, and was suffering of cancer.
Winston Churchill - Telegraph
Winston S. Churchill 1940-2010
Click to expand...

I read about this in the Washington Post today...my condolences to his family. He appeared to live a good and successful life. It couldn't have been easy having the same name as his grandfather. Thats a lot to live up to.
 
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It just astounds me His Grace would say this. Many, many members of the aristocracy seem to be doing quite well, both financially and socially. The newest generation, the grandchildren, of the last real "old arisotcratic" ones, seem to be adapting to modern life quite well, considering their families' histories, homes, titles, land, etc.

I agree...if you seriously consider giving up the title should that happen, then you many want to consider giving up the homes, money, land, etc. Hmmmmm... I wonder how long that would last..lol.
 
Zonk said:
It couldn't have been easy having the same name as his grandfather. Thats a lot to live up to.
Click to expand...
No, of course it could not have been easy; on the matter once he told that “A famous name can be terrible if you are lousy, but if you are any good, it helps”.
 
My condolences to both the Spencer-Churchill and Foot (Michael, brother of two life peers & Labour Leader 1980-1983) families this week. You have lost two shining stars each.
 
My condolences to these families as well.
 
I was wondering does anyone have a picture of the Tiara that The Countess of Airlie wears at State Banquets or Opening of Parliament, any help would be greatly appreciated thanks so much
 
Zonk said:
At 94, the Duke of Wellington will be delighted and relieved to learn he does not have to worry about his mighty title continuing down the generations - his grandson, Arthur, the Earl of Mornington, has proudly informed him he has become a great-grandfather of twins - and one is a boy.
Click to expand...
Does anyone know which twin is older? Does anyone have a source which says who is older?
 
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As Lady Mae Madeleine is mentioned before her brother it may indicate she is the first-born of the twins.

Of interest to royal-watchers is the fact that Lady Mae Madeleine and Arthur Darcy, Viscount Wellesley, are among the most recent of Queen Victoria's many descendants.
Their father, the Earl of Mornington, is the son of HRH Princess Antonia of Prussia, a descendant of the Kaiser (and a twin herself with Prince Rupert).

Here's the line of descent:

VRI > Vicky > Kaiser Wilhelm II > Crown Prince Wilhelm > Prince Friedrich of Prussia > Princess Antonia, Marchioness of Douro > Earl of Mornington > MM and AD


The Dukedom of Wellington succession is assured in direct line:

Arthur, 8th Duke (b 1915) > (Arthur) Charles, Marquess of Douro > Arthur, Earl of Mornington > Arthur Darcy, Viscount Wellesley (b 2010)
 
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That's what I thought too but I need a source saying: "X is the older twin." Thanks anyway! I asked because, although the succession to the Dukedom of Wellington is clear, the succession to the Dukedom of Ciudad Rodrigo is not because it is not clear which twin is older.

Another question: I am aware that Lord Douro has claimed the Dukedom of Ciudad Rodrigo after his father ceded it, but did he become Duke of Ciudad Rodrigo?
 
The Duchess of Westminster and her daughter Lady Edwina Grosvenor
attended The Centre for Social Justice Awards 2010 held at J.P.Morgan
Asset Management, Victoria Embankment, London, July 14, 2010.


** Pic 1 ** Pic 2 **
 
This may fight in here.

TV¿s Dan Snow dating daughter of the £7bn Duke | Mail Online

She is the heiress to one of the nation’s great family fortunes, he is the handsome heir to a broadcasting ­dynasty.

Today, I can reveal the secret romance between TV historian Dan Snow and Lady Edwina Grosvenor, ­glamorous daughter of the Duke of ­Westminster, Britain’s richest landowner and the third wealthiest man in the land.
Click to expand...
 
Lord Kinnock's son embroiled in tax row that might cost his wife the Danish prime minister's job | Mail Online

An investigation into a tax scandal involving Neil Kinnock’s son Stephen threatens to destroy his glamorous wife’s hopes of becoming Prime Minister of Denmark.
The curse of the Kinnocks has struck again after it emerged that Mr Kinnock junior pays taxes in Switzerland - which has the lowest taxes in Europe - and not in Denmark, where his family home is situated but which has the highest tax rates in the world.
Click to expand...
 
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well connie it looks like paul fitzgerald, in the scotsman newspaper, nov 5th 2010 might have the dna evidence to prove that he is the next duke of leinster and that current duke is not heir at all. tyler 123 might want to check into that to see if they are actually related.
 
:previous:
FOR more than 40 years Theresa FitzGerald Caudill, a widow based in Scotland, has been trying to prove that her nephew has been wrongfully denied one of the most prestigious dukedoms in the British Isles.
Her journey could now be coming to an end, with the production of DNA evidence to back up her claim that her nephew, Paul FitzGerald, is the rightful Duke of Leinster and should be the head of a colourful aristocratic family beset by scandal and tragedy.
The new evidence supports Mrs FitzGerald Caudill's theory that the title, Ireland's premier dukedom, has gone down the wrong branch of the family. Now there is likely to be a legal challenge to the existing holder Maurice FitzGerald, from Oxfordshire, who is currently recognised as the ninth duke.
The DNA indicates that Paul FitzGerald, a builder based in San Francisco, is descended from Lady Hermione FitzGerald, a Victorian society beauty and Leinster matriarch from whom the titled family also claims descent. - Scotsman
 
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