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  #121  
Old 08-15-2009, 05:36 PM
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Maybe she doesn't want to cause any conflicts with the City of London, which has some unusual government autonomies. There's already a Lord Mayor of London.
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  #122  
Old 08-16-2009, 10:22 AM
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It was thought that Sir Winston Churchill was offered a Dukedom, possibly Duke of London.
An entertaining article here which details the concern of the Queen and courtiers that he may accept, and the relief when he didn't.
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  #123  
Old 08-16-2009, 02:55 PM
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That's interesting, Warren. But he was knighted?
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  #124  
Old 08-16-2009, 03:49 PM
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In 1953, Her Majesty invested Winston Churchill as a Knight of the Garter, upon which Churchill came to be known as Sir Winston Churchill, KG.
That was only one of the many honours bestowed upon the great statesman by Her Majesty.


Warren, I have read somewhere that Churchill was persuaded to decline the offer of a Dukedom by his son, Randolph Churchill. Randolph wanted to pursue a political career in his own right and since at the time it was not possible to disclaim a title, he wouldn’t be able to enter the House of Commons upon inheriting it.
Is that information accurate?
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  #125  
Old 08-17-2009, 04:21 AM
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I don't know about Randolph's political ambitions but the ability to disclaim a peerage was only made law in 1963 - see here.
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  #126  
Old 09-17-2009, 03:17 AM
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'Liver Good Life' Charity Party
at Christies on September 16, 2009 in London, England

http://i28.tinypic.com/f40cw8.jpg

the countess of Derby, with Linley, she used to work at Buckingham Palace and was a girlfried of Prince Andrew before her marriage. Read somewhere that "she knew what the correct way was of hanging a painting" which is handy and was lucky (or he was lucky) to make a good marriage .http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_..._Earl_of_Derby
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  #127  
Old 09-24-2009, 10:48 PM
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Earl of Lichfield and Lady Henrietta Conyngham are engaged

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The late 5th Earl of Lichfield, the Queen's cousin –better known as the photographer Patrick Lichfield – gave up his family seat, Shugborough Hall, in lieu of death duties.
Happily, his son, Thomas, has become engaged to a woman whose ancestral home is one of Ireland's most famous country houses.

Tom, 31, will marry Lady Henrietta Conyngham, 32, a holistic massage therapist whose father, the Marquess Conyngham, owns Slane Castle.
"Tom went to prep school with my brothers, but we met again by chance walking our dogs in Kensington Gardens two years ago," she tells me. "He proposed at the spot where we met. We'll almost certainly marry at Slane."
Lady Henrietta Conyngham is the eldest daughter of Henry Conyngham, 8th Marquess Conyngham and his first wife, Juliet Ann Kitson.
Tom and Henrietta are 6th cousins once removed.

I am a bit baffled by Lady Henrietta's quote though - "Tom went to prep school with my brothers...": as far as I know, she has only 1 brother, Alexander Burton Conyngham, Earl of Mount Charles, as well as one half-sister, Lady Tamara Jane Conyngham.
Does anyone know if her mother re-married and had issue (sons) from the second marriage?
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  #128  
Old 09-25-2009, 04:02 PM
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Engagement Announcements - The Earl of Lichfield and Lady Henrietta Conyngham ( 24 September 2009 )

What i presume is the engagement ring. I cannot find any information on Juliet that says she had remarried. Might have just been a misspronuciation.
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  #129  
Old 10-07-2009, 07:35 AM
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Ten dukes-a-dining: Gathered together over lunch for a unique picture, the grandees with £2bn and 340,000 acres between them

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At first glance, it might resemble the board meeting of a firm of auctioneers or a convention of prep school headmasters.
On closer inspection, it is actually a remarkable portrait of the grandest club in Britain, a super-elite who account for some 340,000 acres, more than £2billion and 4,505 years of aristocratic moving and shaking.
Some owe their fortunes to bravery in battle, others to royal philandering or political chicanery. But they are all distantly related to each other and they are all addressed in exactly the same way: Your Grace.
I found this article very interesting, if only because I'd never seen some of the coat of arms before.

Does anyone know what Duke of Montrose's coat of arms, especially the yellow symbolize? The roses, I assume, is a wordplay on 'Montrose'.
Duke of Rutland's coat (if that's indeed a coat) is rather unusual, I can't even recognize any details. I wonder whether the current Duke is as popular as his father, may he rest in peace.
Duke of Northumberland's coat of arms is new to me as well: does anyone know what it symbolizes? I'm especially interested in the silver half-moon at the top.
I remember that the shells on Duke of Bedford's coat were a wordplay on something, but I really can't recall what.
Duke of Leinster's coats are also unusual: apart from the obvious red cross on the white background and the motto, every other detail is a complete mystery to me.
And just out of interest, Duke of Wellington's shield features white cross on the red background (with white circles) with the British/UK flag: why not the usual red cross on the white background and was the British flag part of the original shield? And what about those white circles (I think it had something to do with Mornington title but don’t remember what precisely)?

And an interesting misprint in the article: according to it, John Seymour, 19th Duke of Somerset is a descendant of Jane Seymour.
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  #130  
Old 10-07-2009, 08:19 AM
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Thanks Marsel, that is extremely interesting. As you said it is the wrong use of the word descendant when it says he is a descendant of Jane Seymour, poor Jane died of childbirth and her son died young without heirs. The correct way of describing him would have be that he is a descendant of Jane Seymour´s brother. A slip of the pen no doubt.
I am amazed at how like his mother the present Duke of Bedford is, he gets his dark looks from her, a most beautiful woman, debutante of the year in her day.
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  #131  
Old 10-07-2009, 11:13 AM
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How interesting. I've seen the Duke of Norfolk once, he used to own (don't know if he still does) Carlton Towers; he once opened Carlton Feast and crowned the feast Queen.

I simply adore the misprint about the seymours.
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  #132  
Old 10-07-2009, 01:24 PM
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Will these men or their Heirs be at the Next Coronation
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  #133  
Old 10-07-2009, 02:20 PM
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Unless some extraordinary situation will make the attendance of any of them undesirable, they will most certainly attend Charles's coronation.

Dukes are some of the most important (symbolic) participants of the Coronation of the British Monarch. They rank lower than only the Monarch, his/her consort and their family (children, grandchildren, siblings and their children).
Duke of Somerset, for example, will most probably (if the coronation follows traditions of the previous ones) be the Bearer of the Sceptre with the Cross, Duke of Northumberland - Bearer of the Sword of Mercy, Duke of Richmond - Bearer of the Sceptre with the Dove, Duke of Portland will be Bearer of the Consort's Crown, Duke of Rutland - Bearer of the Consort's Sceptre with the Cross, The Duke of Wellington - Bearer of the Pall of Gold (that is, one of 4 bearers – all bearers should be Knights of Garter).

The participants will wear special robes or uniforms. The Royal dukes use six rows of ermine. The rank of other participants is determined by rows of sealskin spots on their capes: dukes are entitled to 4 rows, marquises use 3.5, earls - 3, viscounts – 2.5, while barons and lords are entitled to only 2.
Similarly, the rank of ladies is determined by the length of their trains and the width of ermine edging on them: the duchesses are entitled to 2m long trains, marchionesses – 1.75m, countesses – 1.5m, viscountesses – 1.25m, while baroness and ladies come last with 1m long train.

Another mark of the participants’ rank is the design of the coronets. Prince William (as Heir Apparent) will wear a coronet with 2 crosses-pattée alternating with 4 fleurs-de-lis, surmounted by an arch. The same style, but without the arch, will be used by Prince Harry, Prince Andrew, Prince Edward and Princess Anne. If William has children by the time of coronation, they will wear coronets with 4 fleurs-de-lis, 2 crosses-pattée and 2 strawberry leaves. If Harry has children by the time as well, they will wear coronet of the same design as Beatrice, Eugenie, Louise and James (but not Peter and Zara): 2 fleurs-de-lis, 4 crosses-pattée and 4 strawberry leaves.
Coronets of non-royal dukes and duchesses will feature 8 strawberry leaves, coronets of marquises and marchionesses – 4 strawberry leaves and 4 raised silver balls, earls and countesses will wear coronets with 8 strawberry leaves and 8 silver balls, viscounts and viscountesses – 16 silver balls and finally barons, baronesses, lords, ladies and peers will get only 6 silver balls.

(sources: Wikipedia, Royal website and footage of Queen's 1953 coronation)
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  #134  
Old 10-09-2009, 12:09 AM
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Thank you for all this very interesting information I had no idea about the coronets and the trains
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  #135  
Old 10-09-2009, 01:37 AM
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The most senior holder of each rank of nobility actually swears allegiance to the monarch and the rest of those of that rank echo the oath from their seats. At Victoria's coronation and earlier they all did so in person but due to Edward VII's appendectomy only the senior of each rank did so and that has continued.

Regarding the children of William and Harry, it will depend on their ages as to whether they attend and if they have coronets etc based on the fact that Charles, aged 4 attended but didn't wear a coronet to his mother's coronation. Both Elizabeth and Margaret had them at their father's coronation in 1937.
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  #136  
Old 10-15-2009, 07:49 AM
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David Cholmondeley, 7th Marquess of Cholmondeley and his wife Rose welcomed twin boys on Monday.
The eldest of the yet-unnamed twins will be styled Earl of Rocksavage (or, since his father sometimes used 'David Rocksavage' in his professional life, he child may be known as Viscount Malpas - title reserved for the eldest son of the Heir Apparent).

Marquess of Cholmondeley is the direct descendant of Sir Robert Walpole, Britain's first Prime Minister. He's also currently the only Marquess in the House of Lords.
Following the death of his father, Hugh Cholmondeley, 6th Marquess of Cholmondeley in 1990, he became hereditary Lord Great Chamberlain to Her Majesty.
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  #137  
Old 10-30-2009, 07:24 PM
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Aristocratic family swaps silver for lead in Sotheby's sale - Telegraph
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  #138  
Old 11-07-2009, 09:22 PM
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mandrake/6521224/It-pays-to-be-chubby-for-the-Marquess-of-Cholmondeley.html

"The Marquess and Marchioness of Cholmondeley shall decide which one of their twin sons shall inherit the title and the estates by birth weight rather than time of birth(the twins were delivered via caesarean section)."
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  #139  
Old 11-08-2009, 06:59 AM
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Oh, this is a very big problem...and an original solution, IMO. Which othern criterions can they use, if not the weight?
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  #140  
Old 11-08-2009, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emeralds and Opals View Post
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mandrake/6521224/It-pays-to-be-chubby-for-the-Marquess-of-Cholmondeley.html

"The Marquess and Marchioness of Cholmondeley shall decide which one of their twin sons shall inherit the title and the estates by birth weight rather than time of birth(the twins were delivered via caesarean section)."
Oh what an awful choice they have to make.
Could they not wait to have a third child?
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