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  #401  
Old 07-08-2012, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
What benefit to society is there for hereditary peerages to continue if the male line becomes extinct. I cannot see any imperative to re-create all of their patents in order to continue with the peerage.

It is more a matter of equality. A man has children but because they are the wrong gender can't pass on his title - it is blatantly sex discrimination and should be fixed by either abolishing all peerage titles or allowing the eldest child regardless of gender to inherit - simply fairness.
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  #402  
Old 07-08-2012, 06:45 PM
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The less drastic solution would be something akin to male primogeniture - eldest son still inherits, but if there are no sons, the eldest daughter can inherit the title.

Virtually all original Letters Patent of English, Scottish and British peerage titles did not contain a reminder for female inheritance; however, in certain (very rare) circumstances, they have been amended (or new Letters Patent were issued) to include a clause allowing inheritance by or through females in absence of male heirs. Would it not be possible to issue a sort of mass Letters Patent with similar reminders? After approval from both Houses of the Parliament, of course.
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  #403  
Old 07-08-2012, 07:49 PM
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Why not just let them expire as the lines become extinct? It is not as if the hereditary peers still sit in the House of Lords and exercise political power. Why ask parliament to interfere in something that is of no benefit to society?
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  #404  
Old 07-08-2012, 07:58 PM
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But most of the titles do not expire; if a Peer doesn't have a son, the title is (usually) inherited by closest male relative by laws of primogeniture.
The change would simply allow the daughters of the Peer to inherit the title, because right now they are excluded simply because they were born the "wrong" gender.
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  #405  
Old 07-08-2012, 08:10 PM
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Seems like a perfectly good arrangement with no reason to interfere in these peoples private lives since it has no political relevance and no real benefit to society.
If the government wants to interfere in something to benefit women why not ask them to pass legislation forcing the Church of England (which is still the established religion of England) to allow women Bishops? What about forcing the Roman Catholic Church in the UK to allow women to become priests/bishops etc? Surely such legislation would have a far greater positive impact on the status of women in powerful public positions as opposed to legislating on ancient titles held by people who no longer have the right to sit in the House of Lords.
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  #406  
Old 07-09-2012, 04:43 AM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
What about forcing the Roman Catholic Church in the UK to allow women to become priests/bishops etc?
This could never be accomplished in the UK as the RC Church in the UK is still very much under the jurisdiction of the Vatican and all changes would be made there and be universal for the RC Church worldwide.
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  #407  
Old 07-09-2012, 05:23 AM
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Exactly. Such a big change could never be made without permission from the Vatican.
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  #408  
Old 07-09-2012, 06:30 AM
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Women priestesses/bishops are not going to be allowed by the vatican, the late JPII already issued an encyclical on that one. All attempts to do this by heterdox Catholics have been met with excommunication fairly swiftly.


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  #409  
Old 07-09-2012, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
This could never be accomplished in the UK as the RC Church in the UK is still very much under the jurisdiction of the Vatican and all changes would be made there and be universal for the RC Church worldwide.
I know that. I was being a bit sarcastic. Interfering in hereditary peerages that no longer have anything to do with the governance of the UK makes about as much sense as forcing the RCC in the UK to adapt policies against sexual discrimination in force in the UK although the latter would definitely send a stronger statement on gender equality.
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  #410  
Old 07-09-2012, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
I know that. I was being a bit sarcastic. Interfering in hereditary peerages that no longer have anything to do with the governance of the UK makes about as much sense as forcing the RCC in the UK to adapt policies against sexual discrimination in force in the UK although the latter would definitely send a stronger statement on gender equality.
Now I see your point clearly. Peerage titles from what I've read here and in other various sources seem to point to the fact that such peerage titles are meaningful to the descendants who can trace their lineage back to the xxth century and gives a history of ancestry and perhaps includes a"pile". (For some reason I never liked this referance of estates or manors even though by now some actually are scattered remnants of where an estate manor once stood.) Once upon a time peerages did mean a lot more than they do now but then again, back then women were locked up in chastity belts too.
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  #411  
Old 07-09-2012, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
Seems like a perfectly good arrangement with no reason to interfere in these peoples private lives since it has no political relevance and no real benefit to society.
If the government wants to interfere in something to benefit women why not ask them to pass legislation forcing the Church of England (which is still the established religion of England) to allow women Bishops? What about forcing the Roman Catholic Church in the UK to allow women to become priests/bishops etc? Surely such legislation would have a far greater positive impact on the status of women in powerful public positions as opposed to legislating on ancient titles held by people who no longer have the right to sit in the House of Lords.
By the same logic, why did they bother to give women right to vote? After all, for thousands of years society survived without it.
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  #412  
Old 07-13-2012, 01:24 PM
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Difficult times for the Brudenell-Bruce family...

Mourners fill church for funeral of Rosamond, Countess of Cardigan
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St Mary's Church at Great Bedwyn was packed with people having to stand at the back and sides for the funeral yesterday of Rosamond, Countess of Cardigan. The service was held at the church where she was married in 1980 to the Earl of Cardigan and where she attended communion, priest Colin Fox told the congregation.
Earl of Cardigan faces trial on Wiltshire theft charges
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The Earl of Cardigan will face a Crown court trial after pleading not guilty to criminal damage and theft. David Brudenell-Bruce, 59, appeared at Swindon Magistrates' Court accused of damaging pheasant feeders and stealing a battery and power unit - all of which belong to Peter Tilley. The case was adjourned until 6 September.
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  #413  
Old 07-19-2012, 05:51 AM
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Emma Rutland of Belvoir Castle: A thoroughly modern duchess - Telegraph
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  #414  
Old 07-19-2012, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Artemisia View Post
By the same logic, why did they bother to give women right to vote? After all, for thousands of years society survived without it.
Hardly the same logic at all. Womens sufferage impacted half the population as well as the governance of the nation. Hereditary peers are a miniscule portion of the population and no longer take part in the governance of the nation by hereditary right. They like everyone else must seek election to Parliament or receive a life peerage.
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  #415  
Old 07-21-2012, 04:12 PM
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The Duke and Duchess of Hamilton and Brandon welcomed on 9 July 2012 their first child, a son named Douglas Charles.
The baby, as eldest son and heir of the Duke of Hamilton and Brandon, will carry the courtesy title of Marquess of Douglas and Clydesdale.

Peerage News: Birth of a son and heir to the Duke & Duchess of Hamilton
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  #416  
Old 07-21-2012, 04:13 PM
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A boy named Douglas who is the Marquess of Douglas? Anyone else find that highly amusing? :3
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  #417  
Old 07-21-2012, 04:19 PM
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I've noticed only now that I have not mentioned the surname of the baby: Douglas-Hamilton.
So his complete name and style is Douglas Charles Douglas-Hamilton, Marquess of Douglas and Clydesdale.
Now it is even more amusing
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  #418  
Old 07-21-2012, 04:21 PM
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That poor little guy!
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  #419  
Old 07-21-2012, 04:58 PM
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Poor kid, bullies are going to have a field day. Triple Douglas is just too much.
Sometimes parents should really think about consequences before naming their kids.
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  #420  
Old 07-21-2012, 05:46 PM
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Well at least when someone calls him Douglas it won't matter to him if they are calling him by his first name, family name or title. Maybe he will actually just use the name Charles. Anyway he will probably acquire a totally unrelated nickname in school.

It also seems to be something of a family tradition, for at least the last 4 dukes, to include the name Douglas amongst the heirs Christian names.
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