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  #241  
Old 03-11-2011, 06:37 PM
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I've read that present Lord Rotshild(Baron),whose only son is Nathaniel Rotshild ,is of mixed British -Jewish origin.If I am not wrong,there were some barons Rotschild in Europe,in Austria for example as representatives of a famous dynasty.
My question regards the other British nobles as well.Are there are many of them who have mixed origin(Jewish,Russian.French etc.),besides British?
I mean hereditary peers.
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  #242  
Old 03-25-2011, 06:34 AM
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  #243  
Old 03-25-2011, 06:52 AM
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Is Countess pregnant?
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  #244  
Old 03-25-2011, 07:50 AM
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She looks so...and this characteristic touch...
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  #245  
Old 04-04-2011, 06:03 PM
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It's interesting to me if at Prince William's and Kate's royal wedding are invited all the British peers or at least dukes or earls.As for example,the dukes of Northumberland and Hamilton or barons Hesketh.
If it's so,are invited just holders of title or the members of their family as well?
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  #246  
Old 04-04-2011, 07:19 PM
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Only if they are personal friends of the family or hold important positions of state, but certainly not tbe entire peerage
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  #247  
Old 04-06-2011, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Lenora View Post
I've read that present Lord Rotshild(Baron),whose only son is Nathaniel Rotshild ,is of mixed British -Jewish origin.If I am not wrong,there were some barons Rotschild in Europe,in Austria for example as representatives of a famous dynasty.
My question regards the other British nobles as well.Are there are many of them who have mixed origin(Jewish,Russian.French etc.),besides British?
I mean hereditary peers.
The Rothschild family were all related and were all of Jewish ancestry. They established family branches in Germany, England, Austria and France (and probably other countries as well).

Many of today's British peers do have some Jewish ancestry, given the fact that after the Napoleonic Wars, it was acceptable for impoverished nobility to marry the daughters of wealthy Jews.. thereby saving their landed estates and preserving their status.

In many cases, the wives remained Jewish.. but the children were raised as Protestants.

Hereditary peers with Jewish ancestry include:

George Reginald Oliver Molyneux Herbert, 8th Earl of Carnarvon and his son and heir, Lord Porchester (b. 1992). The 8th Earl's great grandmother, Almina Wombwell, was the illegitimate daughter of Alfred Charles de Rothschild.

Neil Archibald Primrose, 7th Earl of Rosebery and his son and heir, Lord Dalmeny. His paternal grandmother was Hannah Rothschild, only child and sole heiress of Mayer de Rothschild. She was the richest woman in England in the 19th century.

Other descendants of Hannah Rothschild, Countess of Rosebery, include Mary Evelyn Hungerford Crewe-Milnes, Duchess of Roxburghe (divorced from the 9th Duke of Roxburghe - no children), and Ruth Primrose Wood, Dowager Countess of Halifax.

Charles Edward Peter Neil Wood, 3rd Earl of Halifax, and his son and heir, Lord Irwin (b. 1977). He is the eldest son of Ruth Primrose Wood, above. His wife and countess is Camilla Younger, former wife of Richard Parker Bowles and ex-sister-in-law of HRH The Duchess of Cornwall.

Simon Charles Henry Rufus Isaacs, 4th Marquess of Reading, and his son and heir, Viscount Erleigh (b. 1986). His ancestor Rufus Daniel Isaacs was the only British Jew ever elevated to a marquessate.

Charles Edgar Samuel Montagu, 5th Baron Swaythling. Born in 1954, he is the descendant of Samuel Montagu, 1st Baron (born Montagu Samuel). It is not clear if there is an heir to this title.

Peter Robert Henry Mond, 4th Baron Melchett. Born in 1948, he is the descendant of Alfred Mond, 1st Baron. There is no heir to this title, which will become extinct upon his death.

Rupert Harry Bernard Nathan, 3rd Baron Nathan, and his son and heir, The Honourable Alasdair Harry Nathan (b. 1999). His ancestor was Harry Louis Nathan, 1st Baron.

Christopher Haden-Guest, 5th Baron Haden-Guest (b. 1948). His ancestor was Leslie Haden-Guest, 1st Baron, who converted to Judaism before his 2nd marriage to Muriel Goldsmid Carmel. The 1st Baron later renounced the religion and his son Peter (4th Baron) was an Atheist, but the ancestry remains through Muriel's family.

The 5th Baron is married to actress Jamie Lee Curtis, who is officially Lady Haden-Guest. They have 2 adopted children, a son and a daughter, although neither can inherit the barony. Adopted children are barred from inheriting British titles, but are given courtesy titles.

The current heir of Haden-Guest is the 5th Baron's younger brother, The Honourable Nicholas Haden-Guest (b. 1955), who is apparently unmarried.
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  #248  
Old 04-07-2011, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by HM Queen Catherine View Post
Many of today's British peers do have some Jewish ancestry, given the fact that after the Napoleonic Wars, it was acceptable for impoverished nobility to marry the daughters of wealthy Jews.. thereby saving their landed estates and preserving their status.

In many cases, the wives remained Jewish.. but the children were raised as Protestants.
Interesting.
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  #249  
Old 04-07-2011, 09:52 PM
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HM Queen Catherine,

Very interesting. Although the children were raised in the Protestant faith (are you implying Church of England?), doesn't the Jewish faith believe that it is the mother who determines whether or not the children are Jewish? So if the mothers are Jews, then so are the children, right? Despite their religious upbringing?
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  #250  
Old 04-08-2011, 01:14 AM
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According to traditional Jewish Law, a Jew is anyone born of a Jewish mother or converted to Judaism in accordance with Jewish Law. Traditional Judaism maintains that a Jew, whether by birth or conversion, is a Jew forever.

American Reform Judaism and British Liberal Judaism accept the child of one Jewish parent (father or mother) as Jewish if the parents raise the child with a Jewish identity. The Reform movement maintains that a Jew who has converted to another religion is no longer a Jew, and this is the current opinion of the Israeli government when considering citizenship issues.

Liberal Judaism in Britain was not developed until the early 20th century, so I would contend that any nobility of Jewish descent living before that time would have been considered Jewish if the mother was a Jew.. at least by the Jewish community.

But being raised in the Protestant religion (i.e. Church of England), the children of such unions would probably not have considered themselves Jewish, nor was such recognition encouraged at the time.

There are a number of other Jewish/Protestant noble marriages that occurred in addition to the ones I cited earlier, but the nobility tended to bury that information because of the adverse attitude toward Jewish identity.
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  #251  
Old 04-08-2011, 01:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenora View Post
It's interesting to me if at Prince William's and Kate's royal wedding are invited all the British peers or at least dukes or earls.As for example,the dukes of Northumberland and Hamilton or barons Hesketh.
If it's so,are invited just holders of title or the members of their family as well?
AFAIK traditionally all peers and their peeresses are invited to a coronation with the ladies wearing their coronets and the peers in their red robes with ermine. But I'm not sure if it is still done that way.
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  #252  
Old 04-11-2011, 09:35 AM
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Death of the 11th Duke of Grafton

His Grace Hugh FitzRoy, 11th Duke of Grafton, died at Euston Hall on 7 April 2011, a few days after he turned 92.

He was born at Cape Town on 3 Paril 1919, eldest son of Charles FitzRoy, who in 1936 became the 10th Duke of Grafton, and of his first wife, née Lady Doreen Buxton. He had been married since 1946 to Ann Fortune Smith, with whom he had 5 children; their eldest son James, Earl of Euston, predeceased them in 2009.

His successor as 12th Duke of Grafton is his grandson Henry (son of the late Earl of Euston).

Sources: Royal News of 2011, Section III
GRAFTON - Deaths Announcements - Telegraph Announcements
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  #253  
Old 04-15-2011, 06:48 AM
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The Press Association: Duke of Norfolk and wife separate
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  #254  
Old 04-15-2011, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Vasillisos Markos View Post
HM Queen Catherine,

Very interesting. Although the children were raised in the Protestant faith (are you implying Church of England?), doesn't the Jewish faith believe that it is the mother who determines whether or not the children are Jewish? So if the mothers are Jews, then so are the children, right? Despite their religious upbringing?
It is important to note that being a Jew has nothing to do with what you believe or what you do. A person born to non-Jewish parents who has not undergone the formal process of conversion but who believes everything that Orthodox Jews believe and observes every law and custom of Judaism is still a non-Jew, even in the eyes of the most liberal movements of Judaism. A person born to a Jewish mother who is an atheist and never practices the Jewish religion is still a Jew, even in the eyes of the ultra-Orthodox. In this sense, Judaism is more like a nationality than like other religions, and being Jewish is like citizenship.
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  #255  
Old 04-16-2011, 07:14 PM
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Horrible moments,but all the sacrifice done in order to attend the royal wedding in good fit
Royal Wedding: Tara P-T gets a temporary nose job in time for the ceremony | Mail Online
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  #256  
Old 04-16-2011, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by KittyAtlanta View Post
It is important to note that being a Jew has nothing to do with what you believe or what you do. A person born to non-Jewish parents who has not undergone the formal process of conversion but who believes everything that Orthodox Jews believe and observes every law and custom of Judaism is still a non-Jew, even in the eyes of the most liberal movements of Judaism. A person born to a Jewish mother who is an atheist and never practices the Jewish religion is still a Jew, even in the eyes of the ultra-Orthodox. In this sense, Judaism is more like a nationality than like other religions, and being Jewish is like citizenship.
Thank you Kitty, you made my point better than I did. That is what I meant--being born to a Jewish mother imparts a nationality to the children which is recognized as Jewish by other Jews. Not that it matters that they are considered Jews. I just found this aspect of Judaism fascinating and I think it has to do with bloodlines definitely flowing from mother to child as opposed to one guessing or being told who the father is.
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  #257  
Old 04-17-2011, 02:54 AM
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London Telegraph Obituary of the 11th Duke of Grafton

The Duke of Grafton - Telegraph

excerpts

The 11th Duke of Grafton, who died on April 7 aged 92, devoted most of his working life to the fight to preserve the nation’s heritage of old buildings.


An eloquent champion of conservation, he lectured all over the world and sat on a breathtaking array of architectural and amenity bodies. He was chairman and later president of the Society for the Protection of Ancient Buildings, and also chaired at various times the Historic Churches Preservation Trust, the Architectural Heritage Fund, the Church of England’s Cathedral Advisory Commission and Sir John Soane’s Museum.

He was a member of the Historic Buildings Council from its foundation in 1953, and until he succeeded his father in 1970 he was the National Trust’s administrator for Sussex and Kent, and later East Anglia. He was also vice-chairman of the National Portrait Gallery.

Hugh Grafton’s commitment to conservation was as wholehearted as it was selfless, as his position on various public funding bodies meant that he never felt it right to apply for public money to help in the maintenance and restoration of his own family seat, Euston Hall, near Thetford in Norfolk. When, in 1975, he opened Euston, with its magnificent art collection, to the public for the first time on a regular basis, he gave all proceeds from its 4,000 or so annual visitors to charity. “It really doesn’t pay for some of the smaller houses to open to the public,” he observed, “but I felt I had to set an example.”

Euston Hall sits in an 11,000-acre estate straddling the Norfolk-Suffolk border and has been the country seat of the Dukes of Grafton since the year of the Great Fire of London, 1666.

The coat of arms of the Dukes of Grafton include the Royal Arms of Charles II debruised by a baton sinister showing that the 1st Duke was related by blood to the Sovereign but unable to succeed to the throne because of being born out of wedlock.

The Duke was a talented amateur watercolourist, having learned the art during his time in India from Lady Wavell, who held classes in the basement of Viceroy’s House.

He was a close friend of the Royal family, and in 1976 the Queen appointed him a Knight of the Garter .
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  #258  
Old 04-19-2011, 12:41 PM
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Question about dukedom succession

Hi, here's something I'm trying to remember and understand how it works. I know that Dukedom are passed down to the male heirs....what I'm wondering is exactly who are the eligible male heirs? Is it all male descendants of the original holder of the current creation of the dukedom? Does it work similarly to line of succession to the Throne (currently only descendants of Electress Sophia and not otherwise ineligible are eligible)?

Let me give you an example....let's say there's a Dukedom of Hogwarts that was created 500 years ago, and has been extant ever since then. And let's say the 15th Duke of Hogwarts somehow didn't leave male heirs, nor did his Father (the 14th Duke) left any other male child, etc...would any descendants that is related to any other Duke of the current creation, all the way to the first Duke, but not his brothers (just to be clear) and still alive be eligible to become the next Duke?

I remember reading something about how all this work, but I can't seem to find it again.
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  #259  
Old 04-19-2011, 12:49 PM
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From what I understand if the 14th Duke dies, and the 15th doesn't have any sons than upon the death of the 15th Duke it goes to the new male heir. It could be the grandson of the 13th Duke. That has been known to happen.
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  #260  
Old 04-19-2011, 01:02 PM
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From what I understand if the 14th Duke dies, and the 15th doesn't have any sons than upon the death of the 15th Duke it goes to the new male heir. It could be the grandson of the 13th Duke. That has been known to happen.
Right, that's what I'm asking about--in principle, as long as there is at least 1 living and eligible descendant of any of the previous Duke of the current creation of the Dukedom, the Dukedom will remain extant?
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