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12-01-2003, 01:02 AM
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Gentry
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 80
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The Act of Settlement and the Line of Succession
Here are some of the people who have a claim to the British throne.
Descendants of Queen Elizabeth II (b 1926) r 1952- :
1 Prince Charles, Prince of Wales (b 1948)
2 Prince William of Wales (b 1982)
3 Prince Henry of Wales (b 1984)
4 Prince Andrew, Duke of York (b 1960)
5 Princess Beatrice of York (b 1988)
6 Princess Eugenie of York (b 1990)
7 Prince Edward, Earl of Wessex (b 1964)
8 Lady Louise, of Wessex(b 2003)
9 Princess Anne, Princess Royal (b 1950)
10 Peter Phillips (b 1977)
11Zara Phillips (b 1981)
Descendants of King George VI (1895-1952) r 1936-1952:
11 Princess Margaret, Countess of Snowdon (b 1930)
12 David Armstrong-Jones, Viscount Linley (b 1961)
13 Honourable Charles Armstrong-Jones (b 1999)
14 Lady Sarah Armstrong-Jones (b 1964)
15 Samuel Chatto (b 1996)
16 Arthur Chatto (b 1999)
But there are 613 in all: numbers 17-53 in the line of succession are the descendants of King George V (1865-1936, r 1910-1936); 54-80 are descendants of King Edward VII (1841-1910, r 1901-1910); and 81-613 are descendants of Queen Victoria (1819-1901 r 1837-1901). Some, however, are deemed to be disqualified because of marriage to a Roman Catholic, conversion to catholicism, being born to unmarried parents or having been adopted. Others are not listed at all for the same reasons. These are the unfortunate ones, together with their, or their relevant parent's, place in the list.
22 George Windsor, Earl of St Andrews (b 1962) is married to a Roman Catholic. This will has cause him to lose his place in the line of succession
30 Prince Michael of Kent (b 1942) is married to a Roman Catholic.
40 George Lascelles, 7th Earl of Harewood (b 1923). George's youngest son, Honourable Mark Lascelles (b 1964), is not listed in the order of succession because he was born before his parents' marriage.
41 David Lascelles, Viscount Lascelles (b 1950). David's two eldest children, Honourable Emily Lascelles (b 1975) and Honourable Benjamin Lascelles (b 1978), were born before their parents' marriage
44 Honourable James Lascelles (b 1953). James's younger daughter, Tanit Lascelles (b 1981), was born before her parents' marriage
52 Henry Lascelles (b 1953). Henry's half-brother, Martin Lascelles (b 1962), was born before his parents were married.
64 Haakon Lorentzen (b 1954) is married to a Roman Catholic.
68 Ingeborg Lorentzen (b 1957) is married to a Roman Catholic.
72 Alexander Ferner (b 1965). Alexander's elder child, Edward Ferner (b 1996), was born before his parents' marriage
81 Michael, King of Romania (b 1921), a descendant of Queen Victoria, is not shown in most order of succession lists because of his marriage to a Roman Catholic.
91 Princess Marie of Romania (b 1964) is also married to a Roman Catholic.
92 Crown Prince Alexander of Yugoslavia (Alexander II, Titular King of Yugoslavia, b 1945) is not usually shown because of his (first) marriage to a Roman Catholic
105 Princess Tatiana of Yugoslavia (b 1957). Her half-sister, Princess Lavinia of Yugoslavia (b 1961), was born before her parents' marriage
108 Christopher Habsburg (b 1957) and his children, his siblings, their descendants and his paternal uncles, aunts, and their descendants are not shown in most order of succession lists because his grandmother Princess Ileana of Romania's marriage to a Roman Catholic. Christoph's father, the late Archduke Stefan of Austria, Prince of Tuscany, became an American citizen and he and his family use the surname Habsburg.
143 Karl-Emich, 8th Fürst zu Leiningen (b 1952) is not shown in most lists because of his (second) marriage to a Roman Catholic.
159 Hereditary Prince Karl Friedrich of Hohenzollern (b 1952), his children and his siblings, are excluded from most lists because his mother, Princess Margarita of Leiningen, married a Roman Catholic.
183 Prince Christian-Sigismund of Prussia (b 1946). His elder daughter, Isabelle Grandmontagne-Prinzessin von Preussen (b 1969), is not shown because he was unmarried when she was born.
216 Alfonso de Orléans-Borbón y Ferrara-Pignatelli, 7th Duke of Galliera (b 1968). Alfonso (including his child, his sibling, his paternal uncle and aunts and their descendants) is not shown because his ancestor, Princess Beatrice of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, married a Roman Catholic.
238 Princess Birgitta of Sweden (b 1937) and her descendants are excluded because of her marriage to a Roman Catholic.
257 Count Carl Johan Bernadotte af Wisborg (b 1916) is listed but his children, Monika Bernadotte (b 1948) and Christian Bernadotte (b 1949), are not shown because they are adopted
294 Falk, Prince of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (b 1990) is not recog nized as a member of the formerly sovereign family of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha. Falk's father, Peter Schmitt, legally changed his surname (to Prinz von Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha) at his marriage. According to German law on surnames, men and women are permitted to change their names to that of their spouse, but such a name change does not confer royal status.
297 Prince Peter of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (b 1964). Prince Peter's son, Prince Malte of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (b 1990), was born before his parents' marriage.
322 Countess Anne-Charlotte of Castell-Rüdenhausen (b 1962) is listed but her eldest son, Henrik zu Castell-Rüdenhausen (b 1982), is not shown because she was unmarried at his birth.
331 Beatrice Huntington-Whiteley (b 1962) is married to a Roman Catholic.
333 Calma Schnirring (b 1938). Her eldest son, Sascha Berger (b 1960), was born before his parents' marriage. Her youngest daughter, Joi Cook (b 1981) is adopted.
336 Victor Berger (b 1963). His daughter, Mary Katherine (Katie) Berger (b 1985), was born before her parents' marriage.
420 Ernst-Johann, Prince Biron von Curland (b 1940). His children, Anja Prinzessin Biron von Curland (b 1975) and Christiana Prinzessin von Curland (b 1977), are adopted.
429 Prince Franz Friedrich of Prussia (b 1944). His daughter, Princess Christine of Prussia (b 1968), was born before marriage.
430 Princess Alexandra of Prussia (b 1960). Her elder child, Alberto Reboa von Preussen (b 1994), was born before marriage
435 Prince Ernst August of Hanover (Ernst August V, Titular King of Hanover) (b 1954) is married to a Roman Catholic.
440 Prince Heinrich Julius of Hanover (b 1961). Oskar Nick (b 1996), his elder child was born before his father was married.
482 Princess Mafalda of Savoy (b 1969). Her duagher, Anna N (b 1999), was born before her marriage.
516 Princess Clarissa of Hesse (b 1944). Her daughter, Johanna von Hessen (b 1980), was born before marriage.
546 India Hicks (b 1967). Her children, Felix Flint Wood (b 1997) and Amory Flint Wood (b 1999), were born to unmarried parents.
559 Robin Bryan (b 1957). Her children, Edward Houle (b 1979), Faith N (b 1979), and Elijah Bryan (b 1995), were born outside marriage.
561 Gonzalo de Borbón y de Dampierre (b 1937) . His daughter, Stephanie de Borbón (b 1968), was born to unmarried parents
575 Marco Torlonia, 6th Prince of Civitella-Cesi (b 1937). His younger daughter, Caterina Torlonia (b 1974), was born before her parents' marriage.
580 Conte Alessandro Lequio di Assaba's (b 1960) younger son, Alessandro Lequio di Assaba y Obregón (b 1992), is excluded because he was born to unmarried parents.
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12-08-2003, 10:20 PM
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Gentry
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Largo, United States
Posts: 84
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Isn't it Baron Downpatrick, the Earl of St. Andrews' son, is also out because he revently converted to the Catholic faith? Also, wouldn't Lord Nicholas also be out since he also converted? I may have read wrong, but didn't the Duchess of Kent also convert a few years back? How come the Duke of Kent still retains his place in the succession if this were true? Thanks in advance!
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12-08-2003, 11:01 PM
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Courtier
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: San Diego, United States
Posts: 582
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The Duchess of Kent did convert to Catholicism back in 1994. The Duke of Kent did not lose his place in the line of succession because the Duchess converted after they were married.
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01-03-2004, 11:12 PM
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Royal Highness
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: , United States
Posts: 1,749
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If Prince Michael of Kent is excluded from the list due to his marriage to a Catholic, then how are Lord Frederik and Lady Gabriella still eligible for the throne? I thought that if you married a Catholic, both yourself and your offspring would be excluded.
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Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars. ~ Les Brown
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01-04-2004, 12:08 AM
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Courtier
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 722
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no, your kids stay in line as long as they're raised protestant
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01-04-2004, 12:16 AM
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Royal Highness
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: , United States
Posts: 1,749
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hmmm...interesting. Thanks. Next question, it seems as if the line of succession is determined by birth order, then why whas Princess Anne bumped down below Andrew and Edward?
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Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars. ~ Les Brown
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01-04-2004, 12:32 AM
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Courtier
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 722
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Males before females. So, anne's brothers, their children (guys b4 girls) then her :)
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01-05-2004, 01:34 PM
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Majesty
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Rogaland, Norway
Posts: 6,014
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Ragnhild Lorentzen was excluded last year as she married a catholic as well. However the children of Haakon Lorentzen & his wife, and Ingeborg Lorentzen Ribero and her husband, are raised Lutheran, and therefore on the list.
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01-29-2004, 12:28 PM
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Courtier
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: , Philippines
Posts: 773
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Line of Succession to the British Throne
The basis for the succession was determined in the constitutional developments of the 17th century, which culminated in the Bill of Rights (1689) and the Act of Settlement (1701). When James II fled the country in 1688, Parliament held that he had 'abdicated the government' and that the throne was vacant. The throne was then offered, not to James's young son, but to his daughter Mary and her husband William of Orange, as joint rulers. It therefore came to be established not only that the Sovereign rules through Parliament, but that the succession to the throne can be regulated by Parliament, and that a Sovereign can be deprived of his title through misgovernment.
The succession to the throne is regulated not only through descent, but also by statute; the Act of Settlement confirmed that it was for Parliament to determine the title to the throne. The Act laid down that only Protestant descendants of Princess Sophia - the Electress of Hanover and granddaughter of James I - are eligible to succeed. Subsequent Acts have confirmed this.
Parliament, under the Bill of Rights and the Act of Settlement, also laid down various conditions which the Sovereign must meet. A Roman Catholic is specifically excluded from succession to the throne; nor may the Sovereign marry a Roman Catholic. The Sovereign must, in addition, be in communion with the Church of England and must swear to preserve the established Church of England and the established Church of Scotland. The Sovereign must also promise to uphold the Protestant succession.
Line of Succession
1. HRH The Prince Charles, The Prince of Wales (1948)
2. HRH Prince William of Wales, eldest son of The Prince Charles (1982)
3. HRH Prince Henry of Wales, younger son of The Prince Charles (1984)
4. HRH The Prince Andrew, The Duke of York, second son of HM Queen Elizabeth II (1960)
5. HRH Princess Beatrice of York, elder daughter of The Prince Andrew (1988)
6. HRH Princess Eugenie of York, younger daughter of The Prince Andrew (1990)
7. HRH The Prince Edward, The Earl of Wessex, youngest son of HM Queen Elizabeth II (1964)
8. Lady Louise Alice Elizabeth Mary Mountbatten Windsor, daughter of HRH The Prince Edward, The Earl of Wessex (2003)
9. HRH The Princess Anne, The Princess Royal, only daughter of HM Queen Elizabeth II (1950)
10. Peter Phillips, son of The Princess Anne (1977)
11. Zara Phillips, daughter of The Princess Anne (1981)
12. David Armstrong-Jones, Viscount Linley, son of The Princess Margaret (1961)
13. The Honorable Charles Patrick Inigo Armstrong Jones (1999), son of David, Viscount Linley
14. Margarita Elizabeth Alleyne Armstrong-Jones (2002), daughter of David, Viscount Linley
15. Lady Sarah Chatto, daughter of The Princess Margaret (1964)
16. Master Samuel Chatto (1996), son of Lady Sarah Chatto
17. Master Arthur David Nathaniel Chatto (1999), son of Lady Sarah Chatto
18. HRH Prince Richard, The (2nd) Duke of Gloucester, surviving son of HRH The Prince Henry, Duke of Gloucester, who was the 3rd son of HM King George V (1944)
19. Alexander Windsor, Earl of Ulster (1974), son of Richard, Duke of Gloucester
20. Lady Davina Windsor (1977), daughter of Richard, Duke of Gloucester
21. Lady Rose Windsor (1980), daughter of Richard, Duke of Gloucester
22. HRH Prince Edward, Duke of Kent (1935), son of George, Duke of Kent
George Windsor, The Earl of St. Andrews (excluded himself from succession by marrying a Roman Catholic)
Edward Windsor, Baron Downpatrick (1988), son of George, Earl of St Andrews - excluded himself by becoming a Roman Catholic
23. Lady Marina Charlotte Windsor (1992), daughter of George, Earl of St Andrews
24. Lady Amelia Windsor (1995), daughter of George, Earl of St Andrews
Lord Nicholas Windsor (1970), son of Edward, Duke of Kent (excluded himself by becoming a Roman Catholic)
25. Lady Helen Taylor (1964), daughter of Edward, Duke of Kent
26. Columbus Taylor (1994), son of Lady Helen Taylor
27. Cassius Taylor (1996), son of Lady Helen Taylor
28. Eloise Taylor (2003), daughter of Lady Helen Taylor
Prince Michael of Kent, son of George, Duke of Kent (excluded himself from succession by marrying a Roman Catholic)
29. Lord Frederick Windsor (1979), son of Prince Michael of Kent
30. Lady Gabriella Windsor (1981), daughter of Prince Michael of Kent
31. HRH Princess Alexandra. the Hon. Lady Ogilvy (1936), daughter of George, duke of Kent
32. James Ogilvy (1964), son of Princess Alexandra
33. Alexander Ogilvy (1996), son of James Ogilvy
34. Flora Ogilvy (1994), daughter of James Ogilvy
35. Marina Ogilvy (1966), daughter of Princess Alexandra
36. Christian Mowatt (1993), son of Marina Ogilvy
37. Zenouska Mowatt (1990), daughter of Marina Ogilvy
38. George Lascelles, 7th Earl of Harewood (1923), son of Princess Victoria Alexandra Alice Mary & Sir Henry George Charles Lascelles, 6th earl of Harewood
39. David Lascelles, Viscount Lascelles (1950), son of George Lascelles, 7th Earl of Harewood
40. (Hon.) Alexander Lascelles (1980), son of David Lascelles
41. (Hon.) Edward Lascelles (1982), son of David Lascelles
42. (Hon.) James Lascelles (1953), son of George Lascelles, 7th Earl of Harewood
43. Rowan Lascelles (1977), son of James Lascelles
44. Tewa Lascelles (1985), son of James Lascelles
45. Sophie Lascelles (1973), daughter of James Lascelles
46. (Hon.) Jeremy Lascelles (1955), son of George Lascelles, 7th Earl of Harewood
47. Thomas Lascelles (1982), son of Jeremy Lascelles
48. Ellen Lascelles (1984), daughter of Jeremy Lascelles
49. Amy Lascelles (1986), daughter of Jeremy Lascelles
50. Henry Lascelles (1953), son of the Hon. Gerald David Lascelles (brother of 7th Earl of Harewood)
51. Maximilian Lascelles (1991), son of Henry Lascelles
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Never let go of anyone that you could not go a day without thinking about. There just might be a very good reason why they're always on your mind. Sometimes, it's the brain that knows too well what the heart tries so hard to deny
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02-18-2004, 05:27 PM
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Courtier
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Posts: 778
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I DON'T KNOW HOW THE DUKE OF KENT CAN STILL BE IN LINE TO THE THRONE. THE DUCHESS IS NOW A CATHOLIC WHICH MUST EXCLUDE HIM AS HAVING A CATHOLIC WIFE EXCLUDES PRINCE MICHAEL.
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02-18-2004, 06:12 PM
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Courtier
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Odense, Denmark
Posts: 834
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Quote:
Originally posted by angela@Feb 18th, 2004 - 5:27 pm
I DON'T KNOW HOW THE DUKE OF KENT CAN STILL BE IN LINE TO THE THRONE. THE DUCHESS IS NOW A CATHOLIC WHICH MUST EXCLUDE HIM AS HAVING A CATHOLIC WIFE EXCLUDES PRINCE MICHAEL.
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I think that the reason that the Duke of Kent are going to be devorst from the Dutches of Kent.
Yes she has convertet to the catholic faith BUT he has not and i doubt that he ever will do that.
I haf heard that the duches of Kent has resigned her HRH and are now being called by her firstname of her studens in the clases wher she areteaching music.
I dont know if the queen are going to give them her acept ore aproving ther divorce
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Long live the royal family in Denmark
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02-18-2004, 06:29 PM
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Serene Highness
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 1,330
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The difference is that when they married the Duchess was not Catholic. She has chosen the catholic faith later in life. It wasn't anticipated that it would affect their children who were all adults when the Duchess converted. Whilst their younger son has also become catholic it is obviously seen as an individual decision rather than any influence from his mother.
I would also think that the fact that the Kents have lived separate lives for many years had a bearing on the Duke remaining in the Line of Succession.
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Everything I write here is my opinion and I mean no offence by it.
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08-08-2005, 04:15 PM
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Newbie
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Peterborough, Canada
Posts: 9
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The Act of Settlement and the Line of Succession
I have two questions:
Recently I discovered when I googled "Prince George, Duke of Kent" that a profile aired on him nearly two years ago, entitled "The Queen's Lost Uncle."
1) I would like to ask if any forum members out there have seen this program and what their impressions of it were. Did you find it credible?
Judging by the synopsis I read on the Internet, the program rehashed many of the allegations already made about the Queen's late uncle; that he was bisexual ( an affair with Noel Coward has been alleged) that he was addicted to drugs in the late twenties, and that he was unfaithful during his marriage.
Regarding his drug addiction, I did find this confirmed in the official biography of Edward VIII written by Paul Ziegler. Given his credentials and his access to the Royal Archives Ziegler is a credible source, and morever he does quote from the then Prince of Wales' correspondence regarding his supervision of his errant brother's rehabilitation.
2) I have recently read on this forum that the present Duke and Duchess of Kent lead separate lives. However, correct me if I'm wrong, they apparently both still reside at St. James's Palace. Do they have separate apartments?
- One post also stated that the Duke and Duchess were soon to divorce. Can anyone provide any links to this story? Or suggest further reading regarding this matter?
- I understand that they are not officially separated, in consideration of the Queen's wishes?
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08-08-2005, 06:57 PM
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Serene Highness
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: ....., United States
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I have not seen the program but for a while I did follow the history of the British Royal Family very closely. I think the allegations you make about the present Duke of Kent's father - drug use, questionable sexuality - have been substantiated. He was a very hard living man. It is somewhat understandable given the rigid and somewhat repressed upbringing of the children of George V and Mary...a few of those brothers had difficulties. I don't know about the living situation of the current Duke and Duchess. I have read that they are essentially living separate lives. The Duchess (and I think she prefers to be known simply as Katharine/Kate now) has given up all royal duties and until recently was teaching piano lessons -- something at which she is quite gifted. And the issue of them divorcing has surfaced but whether they will go through with it or not I don't know. Much of what I know about this you have already written -- the Duke won't go through with it because of the Queen. And, since the Duchess converted to Catholicism several years ago, I don't know if, from a religious standpoint, she would agree to a divorce or not. Perhaps someone else can fill us in more.
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08-08-2005, 07:05 PM
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Heir Presumptive
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: , United States
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The Duke and Duchess have no plans to divorce, but they agreed to a private separation several years ago. Katherine nows lives in her own flat in London that she purchased with family money, while the Duke continues to live at St. James Palace. The Queen supposedly approved their separation and offered to provide an apartment for the Duchess at Kensington Palace, but she declined.
Why they have not formally divorced is unclear. There was press speculation the Duke wished to divorce, but Katherine did not due to the prohibition in the Catholic Church. Who knows if this is true or not. They definately have gone their separate ways for now.
In any case, Katherine remains HRH and spends most of her free time giving piano lessons, with a very occasional royal duty or two when asked.
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08-08-2005, 07:11 PM
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Royal Highness
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Near NY City, United States
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I feel so sorry for the Duchess. She has been through so much trauma. I wonder what drove her and the Duke apart?
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08-08-2005, 08:02 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Des Moines, United States
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The Duchess has had terrible health problems since the 1970s, with losing 2 babies and depression (and I heard somewhere she had chronic fatigue syndrome).
I have also heard that the marriage suffered from many of the same royal-non-royal issues that posed a problem for Anne, Princess Margaret, Charles and Andrew. It seems that royal spouses expect the world to revolve around them because they're raised that way.
In the end, though, probably only they know what happened.
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08-08-2005, 09:40 PM
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Serene Highness
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: ....., United States
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She has had substantial health problems over the years. About ?5 maybe 7 years ago she was diagnosed as having Celiac Disease. Last year an article in the New England Journal of Medicine listed several diseases that can occur whose underlying cause appears to be Celiac Disease and depression and chronic fatigue syndrome are two of those. In light of this, and her relatively recent diagnosis, I am hoping she is doing better. As an aside, one of the leading physicians in the diagnosis of Celiac Disease lived in our town until recently. He was instrumental in helping a store for gluten free goods get started so that he could refer newly diagnosed patients to it. The owner of the store mentioned to me one day that "some member of the Spanish royal family" had been in! I've never found out who it was but have always been curious!
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08-08-2005, 11:15 PM
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Newbie
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Peterborough, Canada
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Thank you for your new information Emily. I appreciate it!
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08-09-2005, 01:08 AM
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Royal Highness
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Near NY City, United States
Posts: 1,839
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Thank you Emily for sharing that information. I did not know the Duchess had Celiac disease and I pray she is doing better.
Your information about a Spanish Royal is highly interesting. We will be sitting here trying to guess who it was!!
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