The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Reigning Houses > British Royals

Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #161  
Old 11-11-2005, 01:48 AM
ysbel's Avatar
Heir Apparent
TRF Author
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 5,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade
And I am a sucker for Prince Andrew and Peter Phillips...I admit it.... :)
Did someone mention Andrew? We need a heart icon.

Glad to find you've found yourself a home Queen Mary I. Yes, Mary I is someone I have great sympathy for. She was horribly treated in her youth. I still remember reading with tears the time when she just snapped and refused to get carted off to follow Anne Boleyn from one house to the next and she was forcibly shoved in the carriage.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #162  
Old 11-11-2005, 01:53 AM
Queen Mary I's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Tampa, United States
Posts: 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade
Isn't Queen Elizabeth II known by another numeral in Scotland?
I don't think so and this is why I brought up the 'Queen Of Scots' issue. I recently read that some in Scotland prefer this as it is a part of their heritage-and now they have a separate Parliament. I would love to see them restore the Scottish Coronation too. Right now it is similar to other European houses in that the Regalia is just laid out and the new Monarch is sworn in. That is so not 15TH Century! Robert The Bruce would not be amused!
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #163  
Old 11-11-2005, 01:55 AM
Queen Mary I's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Tampa, United States
Posts: 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
There's that very grand story about Queen Mary and the suffragette. A lady at court threw herself in front of Queen Mary and said, "Help Us Ma'am - We must be able to vote!". The Queen looked out of the window, said "Charming Weather we're having" and walked on past as if nothing had happened. So, Queen Mary was against women voting but for her grand-daughter ruling. As you say Lady Marmalade - fascinating and strange.
I love the quote attributed to her Late Majesty Queen Mary when she was asked if she had any regrets in life.

'I never climbed a fence' was her response.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #164  
Old 11-11-2005, 02:14 AM
Queen Mary I's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Tampa, United States
Posts: 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiaraprin
While Mary I was a good woman deep within her heart, she is one of the main reasons Catholics are excluded from the throne in my opinion. Her brutality against anyone not Catholic was horrible. At least her sister Elizabeth I tried to bring some tolerance to the table.
One good thing all biographers say about Mary I is that she had great courage and demonstrated more so than Elizabeth I even. There is one story that as Mary and Elizabeth were making there way to Mass one day (Liz was going reluctanly I am sure ) someone shouted 'TREASON'. Elizabeth it is said ducked and seemed quite frightened. Mary kept right on walking as if nothing had happened. I think between the two Mary had it the worst. Elizabeth had youth and the Protestant Reformation on her side. Mary was illegitimized, made Elizabeth's Lady In Waiting, and generally humiliated by Anne Boleyn. The same would happen to Elizabeth in her turn but Mary's youth was over by the time her baby Protestant half-brother Edward VI died. Mary was a devout Catholic sandwiched between a maniac of a father who thought nothing of murdering two wives-and threatening the other four with death and two Protestant siblings. She didn't have a chance to make her mark in history. In books I have read her brother Edward VI is believed to have been fiercely Protestant and would have persecuted as many Catholics if he had grown up-and he might have even gone as far as to execute his own sister. Sibling love had nothing to do with it. It was what they were taught to believe regarding God and the fear of eternal damnation if they did not hold up what each fervently believed to be the 'True' Faith. Heretics were burned in all the Tudor reigns. Mary's was the most extreme example. Her reign was a brief six years and that is all she had left to live. I wonder how things might have turned out if she had succeeded her father in the bloom of youth-and with no Reformation? No Anne Boleyn?

All three Tudor Princes-Mary, Edward, and Elizabeth were highly intelligent and extremely well educated. Elizabeth by far had the best advisors. Like her father. She was also by far the most tolerant-though Catholics were persecuted in her reign too, Mary, Queen Of Scots was beheaded, and it all nearly exploded in James I's reign. It was because of the persecution of Catholics had to endure that Guy Fawkes plotted against James.

And let us not forget the innocent Catholics who went to their deaths because of Titus Oake's admitted lies in the reign of Charles II.

There were Martyrs to both Faiths throughout British history. But I am happy to see we are friends now. Who would ever have thought to see a British Prince and the Archbishop Of Canterbury at Pope John Paul II's funeral? I thought it was quite moving that we have come so far.

It is interesting that some members of the Royal family and Diana's late mother too I think converted to the Catholic faith. I would love to know their reasons as I have been seriously considering converting from Catholic to Anglican for some years now! :)
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #165  
Old 11-11-2005, 02:31 AM
Queen Mary I's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Tampa, United States
Posts: 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
Did someone mention Andrew? We need a heart icon.

Glad to find you've found yourself a home Queen Mary I. Yes, Mary I is someone I have great sympathy for. She was horribly treated in her youth. I still remember reading with tears the time when she just snapped and refused to get carted off to follow Anne Boleyn from one house to the next and she was forcibly shoved in the carriage.
Edward and Elizabeth really had the better time of it growing up than their big half-sister. Henry the VIII who I consider a wicked man 'legally' bastardized both of his daughters for his own ends. As one biographer put it he cuckholded his first wife to death, beheaded the next, drove his third wife into the grave due to his obsession to gain a son, divorced another, beheaded yet another, and sixth wife just managed to outlive him. I do not like Old Hal at all. Edward VI should be buried next to his mother. Henry threatened her too-indeed all six of his wives with death at one point or another. He doesn't deserve to lie next to any of them. Whoo! I do keep grudges for a long time-I admit it LOL!

My heart breaks for the Protestants who were burned in Mary's reign. And in her grandmother Isabel I's reign. But it was something that was done in those times-by all monarchs. Protestant and Catholic alike.

There is a line in the Bible I think about 'burn all heretics' and like todays more fanatical Muslims and indeed some Christian sects they really take the WORD in their respective Holy Books as absolute literal meaning. So much suffering in the past, and so much now too because of one human being imposing his or her idea of God on another-and if you don't like it you die in the name of whatever God you believe in.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #166  
Old 11-11-2005, 02:47 AM
Queen Mary I's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Tampa, United States
Posts: 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade
Isn't Queen Elizabeth II known by another numeral in Scotland?
I found the article I read some time ago calling for the Queen to change her title to Elizabeth, Queen Of Scots - when she is in Scotland:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/2002596.stm

I think this is more correct. It honors rather than airbrushes out Scotland's Royal history and how it styled it's monarchs. :)

edited to add I read the article too quick the first time-they want her to change her numeral as well! Very interesting. Elizabeth I, Queen Of Scots.

However-should she even have a numeral? I thought numerals were only added if a monarch who followed somewhere in the succession had the same name. For example in her day my fave Queen Regent Mary I was called Queen Mary in her day-not Mary I. That was after Queen Mary II and her husband William came to the throne.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #167  
Old 11-11-2005, 03:26 AM
Iain's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 306
The Scots themselves have never used the term Elizabeth II and in the early days of the queen's reign post boxes with EIIR on it were blown up so today the monogram is never seen in Scotland and post boxes and post vans just have the Scottish crown on it. When Elizabeth opened the new parliament building last year she was officially welcomed as Queen of Scots. You are correct about the numeral I but I believe that in Belgium King Baudouin was termed Baudouin I.

And I don't think Robert the Bruce would have been too bothered about there not being a coronation ceromony. The Scots have always been ahead of their time. The Scots monarchs didn't rule by "Divine right" as in other countries. They were the "first among equals" and if they proved to be a bad monarch the people had the right to remove them and replace them with another member of the royal family.

Also, regarding female successsion, can I point out that the first female monarch was Queen Margaret (the Maid of Norway) who succeded her grandfather Alexander III in 1286 and died in 1290.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #168  
Old 11-11-2005, 03:40 AM
Margrethe II's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 917
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain
and in the early days of the queen's reign post boxes with EIIR on it were blown up
Now they are the kinda people one would invite to a garden party.lol.

"MII"

P.S "QMI" I am thoroughly enjoying your contributions my dear. Keep them coming sweetheart!
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #169  
Old 11-11-2005, 03:41 AM
Queen Mary I's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Tampa, United States
Posts: 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain
The Scots themselves have never used the term Elizabeth II and in the early days of the queen's reign post boxes with EIIR on it were blown up so today the monogram is never seen in Scotland and post boxes and post vans just have the Scottish crown on it. When Elizabeth opened the new parliament building last year she was officially welcomed as Queen of Scots. You are correct about the numeral I but I believe that in Belgium King Baudouin was termed Baudouin I.

And I don't think Robert the Bruce would have been too bothered about there not being a coronation ceromony. The Scots have always been ahead of their time. The Scots monarchs didn't rule by "Divine right" as in other countries. They were the "first among equals" and if they proved to be a bad monarch the people had the right to remove them and replace them with another member of the royal family.

Also, regarding female successsion, can I point out that the first female monarch was Queen Margaret (the Maid of Norway) who succeded her grandfather Alexander III in 1286 and died in 1290.
I have read that King Charles II went to Scotland to be crowned-though of course not to London while Cromwell ruled-I wonder why this stopped? The coronation ceremony in Scotland I mean? I just love pomp and circumstance!

The movie "Braveheart" really made an impression on me. The actor Angus Macfayden who played the role of Robert The Bruce was a cutie. Women. I know. An online Scottish friend told me Mel Gibson's Scottish accent in "Braveheart" was 'a joke'. Ouch. I also loved "Rob Roy".
Attached Images
 
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #170  
Old 11-11-2005, 09:35 AM
Warren's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 15,352
Liechtenstein eyes the prize!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Mary I
What about the Jacobites? The descendants of James II-where would they fit in to the picture if at all? I did read on the BBC page once that the would be Catholic King is a nice guy who isn't interested in being a monarch.
Maybe not interested in being King of England, but King of Bavaria most certainly.

The "Representative and Heir of King Charles I of England", in other words the Jacobite Pretender to the British Crown, is HRH Franz, Duke of Bavaria, de juré King of Bavaria, Head of the House of Wittelsbach.

He is unmarried, so the Stuart rights will pass to his brother, HRH Max Emanuel, Hereditary Prince of Bavaria and Duke in Bavaria.
Duke Max Emanuel has five children, all daughters, two of whom have made glittering marriages. Princess/Duchess Marie-Caroline married Duke Philip of Württemberg.

Duke Max Emanuel's eldest daughter, and future Jacobite claimant, HRH Princess/Duchess Sophie, married Hereditary Prince Alois of Liechtenstein in 1993. They have four children the eldest being Prince Josef Wenzel, born 1995.

Thus at some point in the future the Jacobite Pretender to the British Crown will be none other than the reigning Prince of Liechtenstein, HSH Josef Wenzel II. This claim may come in handy if the Liechtensteiners decide their country too small and seek something bigger and better. We all know Prince Hans Adam is ambitious and clever, but how far will he go? :)
.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #171  
Old 11-11-2005, 09:56 AM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Mary I
I found the article I read some time ago calling for the Queen to change her title to Elizabeth, Queen Of Scots - when she is in Scotland:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/2002596.stm

I think this is more correct. It honors rather than airbrushes out Scotland's Royal history and how it styled it's monarchs. :)

edited to add I read the article too quick the first time-they want her to change her numeral as well! Very interesting. Elizabeth I, Queen Of Scots.

However-should she even have a numeral? I thought numerals were only added if a monarch who followed somewhere in the succession had the same name. For example in her day my fave Queen Regent Mary I was called Queen Mary in her day-not Mary I. That was after Queen Mary II and her husband William came to the throne.
Actually, Queen Mary I was proclaimed as 'Queen Mary the First' in 1553, a unique case. :)

Elizabeth II is not legally Queen of Scots, although she was acclaimed as such, for example, by the Presiding Officer of the Scottish Parliament in 1999.

She is Elizabeth II in Scotland, too -- the court case which called in question her right to use that ordinal was lost.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #172  
Old 11-11-2005, 09:59 AM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Mary I
I have read that King Charles II went to Scotland to be crowned-though of course not to London while Cromwell ruled-I wonder why this stopped? The coronation ceremony in Scotland I mean? I just love pomp and circumstance!

The movie "Braveheart" really made an impression on me. The actor Angus Macfayden who played the role of Robert The Bruce was a cutie. Women. I know. An online Scottish friend told me Mel Gibson's Scottish accent in "Braveheart" was 'a joke'. Ouch. I also loved "Rob Roy".
James II was not crowned in Edinburgh because he was a Roman Catholic, I presume; I don't know whether William & Mary and Anne even contemplated the Scottish coronation. After that the crowns of England and Scotland were united, and the second coronation ceremony became redundant.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #173  
Old 11-11-2005, 11:02 AM
ysbel's Avatar
Heir Apparent
TRF Author
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 5,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren

Thus at some point in the future the Jacobite Pretender to the British Crown will be none other than the reigning Prince of Liechtenstein, HSH Josef Wenzel II. This claim may come in handy if the Liechtensteiners decide their country too small and seek something bigger and better. We all know Prince Hans Adam is ambitious and clever, but how far will he go? :)
.
Wouldn't he rather big a big fish in a little pond? Come to think of it, in Liechtenstein, he's the ONLY fish in the little pond.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #174  
Old 11-11-2005, 11:17 AM
ysbel's Avatar
Heir Apparent
TRF Author
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 5,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain
And I don't think Robert the Bruce would have been too bothered about there not being a coronation ceromony.
Au contraire, my good Iain, the Countess of Buchan herself crowned Robert the Bruce when she was just a child. It was de rigeur for the representatives of the most distinguised nobility to crown the King of Scots and the young Countess scandalized the medieval world by running away from her husband to take her brother's place in the ancient ceremonies.

Edward I paid her back though. On a mission to cut through Scotland, his forces captured her and he ordered that she be put in a wicker cage on the outside rampants of his castle open to the gaze of all who walked there. She was thus imprisoned for two years.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #175  
Old 11-11-2005, 12:20 PM
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: ***, United States
Posts: 16,897
Edward I was such a sweetheart.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #176  
Old 11-11-2005, 01:01 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago, United States
Posts: 1,532
WOW!! These are some of the most informative posts I have read on this site!

Thank you all for posting. Now I feel like I am getting a real education here.

Queen Mary I, thank you for the heart icon.

And thank you Iain for explaining the difference in Scotland and England over the correct title for QEII.

Elspeth, I also am not able to figure out why a person would be reprimanded for calling Queen Victoria, Queen Victoria....
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #177  
Old 11-11-2005, 01:33 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: , United States
Posts: 2,732
The Queen is Sovereign over all her realms, including the United Kingdom of Great Britian (which includes Scotland) and Northern Ireland. Scotland is not a sovereign state, but part of the UK, so HM can only be Elizabeth II, not Queen of Scots.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #178  
Old 11-11-2005, 06:43 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago, United States
Posts: 1,532
Mmm..I don't think that is correct. She is not QEII in Scotland.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #179  
Old 11-12-2005, 05:08 AM
Queen Mary I's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Tampa, United States
Posts: 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren
Maybe not interested in being King of England, but King of Bavaria most certainly.

The "Representative and Heir of King Charles I of England", in other words the Jacobite Pretender to the British Crown, is HRH Franz, Duke of Bavaria, de juré King of Bavaria, Head of the House of Wittelsbach.

He is unmarried, so the Stuart rights will pass to his brother, HRH Max Emanuel, Hereditary Prince of Bavaria and Duke in Bavaria.
Duke Max Emanuel has five children, all daughters, two of whom have made glittering marriages. Princess/Duchess Marie-Caroline married Duke Philip of Württemberg.

Duke Max Emanuel's eldest daughter, and future Jacobite claimant, HRH Princess/Duchess Sophie, married Hereditary Prince Alois of Liechtenstein in 1993. They have four children the eldest being Prince Josef Wenzel, born 1995.

Thus at some point in the future the Jacobite Pretender to the British Crown will be none other than the reigning Prince of Liechtenstein, HSH Josef Wenzel II. This claim may come in handy if the Liechtensteiners decide their country too small and seek something bigger and better. We all know Prince Hans Adam is ambitious and clever, but how far will he go? :)
.
Thank you for all the info! I once found a great site on the Jacobites but my computer crashed over the summer and I haven't been able to find it again. Some sweet person wrote in the "Find A Grave" Royal memorial for James II:

"The Cause still lives on Sir." :)

When I was a teenager I read a book on the Stuarts and one of Prince Charle's big sisters either Queen Mary II or Queen Anne (I'm going from memory here!) allegedly said something like 'my brother my poor brother' on her deathbed. :(
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #180  
Old 11-12-2005, 05:20 AM
Queen Mary I's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Tampa, United States
Posts: 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapple
Actually, Queen Mary I was proclaimed as 'Queen Mary the First' in 1553, a unique case. :)

Elizabeth II is not legally Queen of Scots, although she was acclaimed as such, for example, by the Presiding Officer of the Scottish Parliament in 1999.

She is Elizabeth II in Scotland, too -- the court case which called in question her right to use that ordinal was lost.
Thank you very much for the explanation! I just love the way the title rolls off the tongue -

Mary, Queen Of Scots, Robert King Of Scots, Elizabeth Queen Of Scots!

I have read all the books I could find on Mary I-I must have missed that part about Queen Mary I in my eagerness!

I was so into reading about her as a kid that one summer I started dreaming about her-very real, a little scary dreams. In one I walked into a large, dark, ornate bedroom. I felt a pleasant breeze-and I knew Queen Mary I was lying on her bed but I couldn't see her-because of the drapery around the bed, and the darkness. I have read that she had a deep and husky voice (rather like Camilla's I imagine!) anyway in the dream I stepped into the room cautiously and asked 'Your Majesty?'? Out of the darkness a woman's deep, husky voice answered 'Yes?'. I woke up with my heart pounding and SPOOKED! The dream seemed so real LOL! I was raised by my late darling Aunt Lucy and when I told her about the dreams I was having she told me 'your reading too much about that Queen! Stop it! Before she shows up for real!'
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
act of settlement, catholicism, line of succession, succession


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Additional Links
Popular Tags
abdication birth charlene chris o'neill crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess letizia crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit crown princess victoria current events duchess of cambridge fashion grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri hohenzollern infanta leonor infanta sofia jordan king abdullah ii king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander luxembourg olympic games ottoman palace pom pregnancy president hollande prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince constantijn prince felipe prince floris prince maurits prince pieter-christiaan princess princess alexia (2005 -) princess anita princess ariane princess beatrix princess catharina-amalia princess charlene princess claire princess laurentien princess letizia princess mabel princess madeleine princess margriet princess mary queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen rania queen silvia queen sofia royal russia sofia hellqvist spain state visit wedding william winter olympics 2014



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:46 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]