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  #121  
Old 11-08-2005, 09:13 PM
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The current laws of succession are likely to be changed by a new Act of Parliament at some point in the future, providing male and females have equal rights to succeed and ending the ban on Catholics. My prediction is it will happen in the next twenty years.
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  #122  
Old 11-08-2005, 09:15 PM
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Well, as I said, I hope they do it proactively and don't wait until circumstances force their hand.
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  #123  
Old 11-09-2005, 12:08 AM
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Compared to other countries, they have not done so bad in the Queen department.

Look at what Japan is going through, talk about sexism. I know, I know..tradition blah blah...but hey, we are not talking about anything overly big here..give her the right.
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  #124  
Old 11-09-2005, 01:40 AM
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Well, especially since you'd have to be blind not to see the resemblance between her and her father.
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  #125  
Old 11-09-2005, 07:48 AM
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The 'problem' is that if they change the law to allow Catholics to come to the throne then are they going to change it to allow buddhists, muslims, jews and mormons to become Sovereign? I hate to sound 'racist' but I'd prefer a Christian Sovereign only - whatever their denomination (whatever my personal preference).
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  #126  
Old 11-09-2005, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
The 'problem' is that if they change the law to allow Catholics to come to the throne then are they going to change it to allow buddhists, muslims, jews and mormons to become Sovereign? I hate to sound 'racist' but I'd prefer a Christian Sovereign only - whatever their denomination (whatever my personal preference).
If it becomes open to Catholics, it becomes open to all faiths. [ed] One cannot have their cake and it eat it too. For many years, there has been an uproar about the "Catholic ban". Well, if it is lifted, bans on other religions should be lifted too. Fair is fair. Charles has said he wants to be "Defender of Faith". Here is his chance to open that door.

As a Protestant, I could cry foul about Catholics becoming eligible for the throne. However, I recognize that is patently unfair despite my feelings on Catholicism. Tolerance and Equality should be the order of the day.
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  #127  
Old 11-09-2005, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
one cannot have their cake and it eat it too.
What did that add to this topic?

I'd rather it remained unchanged if it means a person of any religion could become Sovereign. I do not welcome the idea of a muslim King and if that makes me a bad person then so be it - I think I speak for the majority when I say that. We are a officially a Christian country and we should have a Christian monarch whether that be a Roman Catholic, an Anglican or a happy-clappy singer of songs.
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  #128  
Old 11-09-2005, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
The Line of Succession is worked out by birth and thats based on salic law. So men take precedence over women.
Salic Law is male succession only. Liechtenstein has Salic Law; Part III Article 12 of the House Laws 1993 of the Princely House states that only males can succeed to the throne.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
The 'problem' is that if they change the law to allow Catholics to come to the throne then are they going to change it to allow buddhists, muslims, jews and mormons to become Sovereign?
I thought we were talking about changing the law to allow someone in the line of succession to keep their place if they married a Roman Catholic. The Act of Settlement also states "That whosoever shall hereafter come to the possession of this Crown, shall join in communion with the Church of England, as by law established.".So we are safe from Tom Cruise and the Scientologists, at least in the short term.
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  #129  
Old 11-09-2005, 09:06 AM
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Salic Law is male succession only. Liechtenstein has Salic Law; Part III Article 12 of the House Laws 1993 of the Princely House states that only males can succeed to the throne.
Thanks Warren! My mistake.

The Act of Settlement - it says that one has to join in communion with the Church of England. How would they change that? Would it be replaced with 'communion with a Christian denomination'?
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  #130  
Old 11-09-2005, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
Thanks Warren! My mistake.
The Act of Settlement - it says that one has to join in communion with the Church of England. How would they change that? Would it be replaced with 'communion with a Christian denomination'?
We have to be clear what we are talking about here: the spouse of someone in the line of succession, or the Sovereign? By removing the ban of Roman Catholics as spouses and replacing it with a "Christian" spouse requirement, you are actually extending discrimination where there was none before. William could quite happily, and legally, marry a Muslim bride as the Act of Settlement does not proscribe anyone but Catholics. While the Sovereign remains "head" of the Church of England I guess it is fair enough to expect the Sovereign be a member of that Church.
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  #131  
Old 11-09-2005, 09:18 AM
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I mean the Sovereign. I think there is discrimination against catholics now but I dont think that by replacing it with a requirement for the Sovereign to be a Christian of whatever denomination is created discrimination. We are, in principle, a Christian country and we should have a Christian Sovereign. Personally, I'd like to see a Catholic Monarch but that won't happen.

I think we're seeing the huge problems opened up when you look into changing the succession laws.
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  #132  
Old 11-09-2005, 09:24 AM
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I don't know the details, but a Spanish Soveriegn must be Roman Catholic. I wonder if the Spanish Constitution has rules about the religion of the Sovereign's spouse? And if so, why aren't those rules criticised as "discriminatory"? Off topic, but relevant to the general discussion.
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  #133  
Old 11-09-2005, 09:25 AM
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And if so, why aren't those rules criticised as "discriminatory"?
I would assume because Spain is a Catholic Country and so it's not a huge thing to have rules that say the Sovereign must be a Roman Catholic. Doesn't Juan Carlos use the style His Catholic Majesty?
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  #134  
Old 11-09-2005, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
I would assume because Spain is a Catholic Country and so it's not a huge thing to have rules that say the Sovereign must be a Roman Catholic. Doesn't Juan Carlos use the style His Catholic Majesty?
Yes, exactly. England has an established church, the Church of England, and therefore the Sovereign is expected to be just that. Just as the Norwegian Sovereign must be Lutheran. Curiously enough, the House Laws of Liechtenstein (all 10 pages) only mentions religion in the Preamble, which states "These centuries-old family traditions include the Catholic Faith...whilst respecting the freedom of belief and conscience of the individual". Medieval and Modern, all in one!
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  #135  
Old 11-09-2005, 09:52 AM
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The Royal Family uses the system cognatic primogeniture.

Salic Law used in the Kingdom of Hanover is the reason why Ernst August is not sitting on the throne of England today. Victoria was a female and could not inherit the throne of Hanover and therefore the Kings of Hanover lost the throne of England.
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  #136  
Old 11-09-2005, 09:53 AM
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Thanks Lady M. I thought Salic Law was a short way of saying Cognatic Primogeniture but it's obviously not!

Interesting that there isn't a female equivalent of Salic Law that only allows females to become Sovereign.
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  #137  
Old 11-09-2005, 09:59 AM
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No kidding, Beatrixfan.... :)

You know, many people have always said Princess Anne would make a hell of a queen, or, if you guys went to a system like we have, a hell of a president.

I would agree. She is smart, articulate, no nonsense, and has more of a backbone than Charles in many respects.
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  #138  
Old 11-09-2005, 10:01 AM
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I think Princess Anne would make a good Monarch but I honestly don't think she'd want the job. And her children wouldn't exactly be ideal to follow her. The problem is, there are lots of members of the RF who would have made good Monarchs - Princess Alexandra for one. As someone said, when we start picking and choosing it all goes to pot.
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  #139  
Old 11-09-2005, 10:29 AM
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Thanks for clearing that up Elspeth. I was just writing off the top of my head. I don't know why I thought the Kents were ahead of the Gloucesters. :o

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade
Compared to other countries, they have not done so bad in the Queen department.

Look at what Japan is going through, talk about sexism. I know, I know..tradition blah blah...but hey, we are not talking about anything overly big here..give her the right.
In Japan, women cannot inherit the throne, period, whether there is an eligible male heir or not. That's what makes the situation so harsh and unfair to the crown princesses. It is similar to the situation in Russia when Nicholas and Alexandra kept having daughters and then their son was born a hemophiliac. The daughters couldn't succeed to the throne even without an available male heir. The situation puts the imperial family under a pressure cooker, IMHO.

Most every country except Japan has modified those laws. Oddly enough Great Britain has never had a law this restrictive, England crowned a Queen Regnant in 1553 (Mary I) and Scotland's Mary, Queen of Scots inherited the throne in 1542. Sweden too accepted female monarchs rather early, Christina (the subject of the great movie with Greta Garbo) became Queen in 1632.

I find it surprising that the British and the Swedes were so ahead of their times. At an age when women were denied many basic rights that men had, at least in these two countries women were accepted as absolute monarchs.
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  #140  
Old 11-09-2005, 10:33 AM
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Our female Monarchs have usually been better than their male counterparts. Mary I, Elizabeth I, Victoria etc.
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