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  #921  
Old 04-14-2014, 09:56 PM
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I think your dates are off a bit here.

There have been attempts to contest the succession, they just haven't been successful attempts. Even the Glorious Revolution itself can be seen as an attempt to contest the succession, made successful by the support of Parliament.
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  #922  
Old 04-14-2014, 10:33 PM
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The words 'since parliament took control' were deliberate. What I meant to say, and appear to have said badly is that since parliament started to make the decisions no one has been able to successfully challenge the succession without parliament agreeing. The Glorious Revolution was led by parliament and thus not a challenge to parliament's right to make the decision but a decision by parliament. Thus since parliament took the right to decide the succession no one has successfully challenged parliament's right to make the decision.
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  #923  
Old 04-15-2014, 09:40 AM
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I don't know about Parliament picking Prince George to replace Edward VIII. It would be skipping several people - Bertie, Elizabeth, Margaret, Henry Duke of Gloucester and his future children. It doesn't seem that would be something that would be put up with by the establishment. Beside the need for a son had diminished by that time since it was a constitutional monarchy at that point and there had been several queen regents already unlike in medieval times where the lines of women were ignored.
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  #924  
Old 04-15-2014, 10:12 AM
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The idea to bypass the Duke of York, by doing so completely ignoring his rights as well those of Princess Elizabeth, Princess Margaret, their future offspring, as well that of the Duke of Gloucester and his future offspring, is so violating the Act of Settlement of 1701 that I doubt any Government or any Parliament was willing to enforce this and risking Pandora's Box being opened. Complete fiction, if you ask me.

The Reign of William III and Mary II can be compared with the result of an abdication. Of course, in this case the King (James II / James VII) has not abdicated but was deemed to have fled the country. The outcome however is the same: his natural successors (his daughter Princess Mary and his nephew/son-in-law William of Nassau, Prince of Orange) moved to the top position, later on their turn succeeded by King James' younger daughter, Princess Anne. So the "right to rule" in order of birth ultimately remained intact in this case.
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  #925  
Old 04-15-2014, 06:12 PM
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The idea of Prince George being chosen to replace Edward VIII isn't complete fiction - it was discussed at cabinet level - not in a formal cabinet meeting as far as I know but by cabinet ministers (one of whom was my great-uncle) and they rejected the idea but it most certainly was discussed.
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  #926  
Old 04-15-2014, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
The idea of Prince George being chosen to replace Edward VIII isn't complete fiction - it was discussed at cabinet level - not in a formal cabinet meeting as far as I know but by cabinet ministers (one of whom was my great-uncle) and they rejected the idea but it most certainly was discussed.
Of course anything can be discussed by ministers, varying from the temperature of the tea at the cabinet meetings to the pimple on the nose of the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

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  #927  
Old 04-15-2014, 11:41 PM
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And there you have it, in a nutshell!
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  #928  
Old 02-20-2015, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Artemisia View Post
You are welcome.
Genealogy is one of hobbies and I'm always ready to provide long, detailed and horribly boring charts.

Recently, there was a discussion in George I thread about all the people who would have been ahead of George of Hanover (George I) at the time of Queen Anne's death, had the Act of Settlement not been passed. We counted 58 people, all of whom were disqualified for various reasons (mainly because they were Catholics themselves, or were married to ones). Here is that list:

1. James, Prince of Wales (The Old Pretender)
Can you provide a list of people that would have been in the line of succession on the evening before The Act of Settlement passed in 1701/2 and became legal binding before they all became disqualified due to the reasons stated in The Act of Settlement?
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  #929  
Old 02-20-2015, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Corbyguy View Post
Can you provide a list of people that would have been in the line of succession on the evening before The Act of Settlement passed in 1701/2 and became legal binding before they all became disqualified due to the reasons stated in The Act of Settlement?

I have a list that would meet this on my computer at home. I can share it later if you like.
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  #930  
Old 02-20-2015, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Corbyguy View Post
Can you provide a list of people that would have been in the line of succession on the evening before The Act of Settlement passed in 1701/2 and became legal binding before they all became disqualified due to the reasons stated in The Act of Settlement?
The 1714 Line of Succession to the British Throne if the Acts of Settlement had not taken place Including Catholics and Jacobite:

James I and VI, King of England and scotland (d. 1625)
Charles I, King of England and Scotland (d. 1649)
James II and VII, King of England & Scotland (d. 1701)

Anne's half-brother and first in line to the throne, James Francis Edward Stuart
1: James Francis Edward Stuart (1688–1766): Claimant from 1701 in opposition to heir designate George I Louis, Elector of Hanover.
Henrietta of England (d. 1670)

Anne Marie d'Orléans, Queen of Sardinia, paternal first cousin of Anne and James Stuart
2: Anne Marie, Queen of Sardinia (1669–1728)
3: Victor Amadeus, Prince of Piedmont (1699–1715)
4: Prince Charles Emmanuel of Savoy, future King Charles Emmanuel III of Sardinia (1701–1773)
Marie Adélaïde of Savoy (d. 1712)

Louis XV of France, the only son of Anne Marie's eldest daughter Marie Adélaïde
5: Louis, Duke of Anjou, future King Louis XV of France (1710–1774)
Maria Luisa of Savoy (d. 1714)
6: Louis, Prince of Asturias, future King Louis of Spain (1707–1724)
7: Infante Philip of Spain (1712–1719)
8: Infante Ferdinand of Spain, future King Ferdinand VI of Spain (1713–1759)
Elizabeth of Bohemia (d. 1662)
Charles I Louis, Elector Palatine (d. 1680)

Elizabeth Charlotte, Duchess of Orleans
9: Elisabeth Charlotte, Dowager Duchess of Orléans (1652–1722)
10: Philippe d'Orléans, Duke of Orléans (1674–1723)
11: Louis d'Orléans, Duke of Chartres, future Duke of Orléans (1703–1752)
12: Marie Louise Élisabeth d'Orléans (1695–1719)
13: Louise Adélaïde d'Orléans (1698–1743)
14: Charlotte Aglaé d'Orléans (1700–1761)
15: Louise Élisabeth d'Orléans (1709–1742)
16: Élisabeth Charlotte, Duchess of Lorraine (1676–1744)
17: Prince Leopold Clement of Lorraine (1707–1723)
18: Prince Francis Stephen of Lorraine, future Holy Roman Emperor (1708–1765)
19: Prince Charles Alexander of Lorraine (1712–1780)
20: Princess Elisabeth Therese of Lorraine (1711–1741)
21: Princess Anne Charlotte of Lorraine (1714–1773)
Edward, Count Palatine of Simmern (d. 1663)
Louise Marie von Simmern (d. 1679)
22: Louis Otto, Prince of Salm (1674–1738)
23: Princess Dorothea of Salm (1702–1751)
24: Princess Elisabeth of Salm (1704–1739)
25: Princess Christine of Salm (1707–1775)
Princess Luise of Salm (d. 1707)
26: Eleonore Christine, Duchess of Ursel (1678–1757)
27: Anne Henriette, Dowager Princess of Condé (1648–1723)
Louis, Prince of Condé (d. 1710)
28: Louis Henri, Prince of Condé (1692–1740)
29: Charles, Count of Charolais (1700–1760)
30: Louis, Count of Clermont (1709–1771)
31: Marie Anne Éléonore, Mademoiselle de Bourbon (1690–1760)
32: Louise Elisabeth, Princess of Conti (1693–1775)
33: Louise Anne de Bourbon, mlle de Sens (1695–1758)
34: Marie Anne de Bourbon, mlle de Clermont (1697–1741)
35: Henriette Louise de Bourbon, mlle de Vermandois (1703–1772)
36: Élisabeth Alexandrine de Bourbon, mlle de Gex (1705–1765)
37: Marie Thérèse, Second Dowager Princess of Conti (1666–1732)
38: Louis Armand, Prince of Conti (1695–1727)
39: Marie Anne, Princess of Condé (1689–1720)
40: Louise Adelaide de Bourbon, mlle de la Roche-sur-Yon (1696–1750)
41: Louise Bénédicte, Duchess of Maine (1676–1753)
42: Louis Auguste, Prince of Dombes (1700–1755)
43: Louis Charles, Count of Eu (1701–1775)
44: Louise Françoise de Bourbon, mlle du Maine (1707–1743)
45: Marie Anne, Dowager Duchess of Vendôme (1678–1718)
46: Benedicta Henrietta, Dowager Duchess of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1652–1730)
Charlotte Felicity, Duchess of Modena (d. 1710)
47: Francesco d'Este, future Duke Francis III of Modena (1698–1780)
48: Giovanni Federigo d'Este (1700–1727)
49: Benedicta Ernestina d'Este (1697–1777)
50: Anna Amalia Josepha d'Este (1699–1778)
51: Enrichetta d'Este (1702–1777)
52: Henriette Maria, Duchess of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1672–1737)
53: Wilhelmina Amalia, Holy Roman Empress (1673–1742)
54: Archduchess Maria Josefa of Austria (1699–1757)
55: Archduchess Maria Amalia of Austria (1701–1756)


Sophia, Electress of Hanover (d. 1714) designated heir according to the Act of Settlement (1701)
George Ludwig, the first Protestant in succession to the British throne at the death of Queen Anne

56: George I Louis, Elector of Hanover (1660–1727)
57: George Augustus of Hanover, duke of Cambridge, future king George II (1683–1760)
58: Frederick Louis of Hanover, future prince of Wales (1707–1751)
59: Anne of Hanover (1709–1759)
60: Amelia of Hanover (1711–1786)
61: Caroline of Hanover (1713–1757)
62: Sophia Dorothea of Hanover (1687–1757)
63: Frederick of Prussia, future king of Prussia (1712–1786)
64: Wilhelmine of Prussia (1709–1758)
65: Maximilian William of Hanover (1666–1726)
66: Ernest Augustus of Hanover, future duke of York & Albany, future prince-bishop of Osnabrück (1674–1728)
Sophia Charlotte of Hanover (d. 1705)
68: Frederick William I, king of Prussia (1688–1740)


Descendants of Mary, Queen of France Daughter of Henry VII (d. 1533)
69. Charles Seymour, 6th Duke of Somerset
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  #931  
Old 02-22-2015, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Ish View Post
I have a list that would meet this on my computer at home. I can share it later if you like.
Yes, please do share. Either post on here or send it privately to me. The list that has already previously been posted in this thread a while ago only shows what the list of the order of succession would have been in 1714 had the Act of Settlement actually not passed but i really would like to know what the list of the order of succession would have been in 1701 the day before The Act of Settlement passed as though there was never an Act of Settlement.
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  #932  
Old 02-22-2015, 03:07 PM
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The Act of Settlement 1701 and the Line of Succession

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Originally Posted by Corbyguy View Post
Yes, please do share. Either post on here or send it privately to me. The list that has already previously been posted in this thread a while ago only shows what the list of the order of succession would have been in 1714 had the Act of Settlement actually not passed but i really would like to know what the list of the order of succession would have been in 1701 the day before The Act of Settlement passed as though there was never an Act of Settlement.

I posted it above. It the same. As I said it would have been the Line of Succession had The Acts of Settlement not taken place.
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  #933  
Old 02-22-2015, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by BritishRoyalist View Post
The 1714 Line of Succession to the British Throne if the Acts of Settlement had not taken place Including Catholics and Jacobite:

James I and VI, King of England and scotland (d. 1625)
Charles I, King of England and Scotland (d. 1649)
James II and VII, King of England & Scotland (d. 1701)

Anne's half-brother and first in line to the throne, James Francis Edward Stuart
1: James Francis Edward Stuart (1688–1766): Claimant from 1701 in opposition to heir designate George I Louis, Elector of Hanover.
Henrietta of England (d. 1670)
...
Very interesting. Thanks for posting
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  #934  
Old 02-22-2015, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by BritishRoyalist View Post
I posted it above. It the same. As I said it would have been the Line of Succession had The Acts of Settlement not taken place.
The list you posted includes those people born after The Act of Settlement had taken place in 1701. What i really require is a list of the people in the line of succession that were alive in 1701 on the day before The Act of Settlement had taken place. I do not require the details of anyone who was born between 1701 and 1714 as they were not born prior to The Act of Settlement.

Thanks anyway.
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  #935  
Old 02-22-2015, 04:48 PM
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The Act of Settlement 1701 and the Line of Succession

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Originally Posted by Corbyguy View Post
The list you posted includes those people born after The Act of Settlement had taken place in 1701. What i really require is a list of the people in the line of succession that were alive in 1701 on the day before The Act of Settlement had taken place. I do not require the details of anyone who was born between 1701 and 1714 as they were not born prior to The Act of Settlement.

Thanks anyway.

Again I just posted it above. This is the 1701 line of Succession. This list does not include anyone born after 1701
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  #936  
Old 02-22-2015, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by BritishRoyalist View Post
Again I just posted it above. This is the 1701 line of Succession. This list does not include anyone born after 1701
The list you posted in comment *930 in response to my comment #928 does indeed include people born after 1701 which the following are from the list you give in comment #930 which i show below:

5: Louis, Duke of Anjou, future King Louis XV of France (1710–1774)
6: Louis, Prince of Asturias, future King Louis of Spain (1707–1724)
7: Infante Philip of Spain (1712–1719)
8: Infante Ferdinand of Spain, future King Ferdinand VI of Spain (1713–1759)
15: Louise Élisabeth d'Orléans (1709–1742)
17: Prince Leopold Clement of Lorraine (1707–1723)
18: Prince Francis Stephen of Lorraine, future Holy Roman Emperor (1708–1765)
19: Prince Charles Alexander of Lorraine (1712–1780)
20: Princess Elisabeth Therese of Lorraine (1711–1741)
21: Princess Anne Charlotte of Lorraine (1714–1773)
23: Princess Dorothea of Salm (1702–1751)
24: Princess Elisabeth of Salm (1704–1739)
25: Princess Christine of Salm (1707–1775)
30: Louis, Count of Clermont (1709–1771)
35: Henriette Louise de Bourbon, mlle de Vermandois (1703–1772)
36: Élisabeth Alexandrine de Bourbon, mlle de Gex (1705–1765)
44: Louise Françoise de Bourbon, mlle du Maine (1707–1743)
51: Enrichetta d'Este (1702–1777)
58: Frederick Louis of Hanover, future prince of Wales (1707–1751)
59: Anne of Hanover (1709–1759)
60: Amelia of Hanover (1711–1786)
61: Caroline of Hanover (1713–1757)
63: Frederick of Prussia, future king of Prussia (1712–1786)
64: Wilhelmine of Prussia (1709–1758)

Perhaps you forget to check the list to see who was only alive in 1701 before you posted the list in response to me, an oversight which can happen so not a problem. I am only interested in knowing who was alive before 12th June 1701 (the day that The Act of Settlement passed).

I think George, Prince of Hanover the future King George was about 42nd in line the actual moment before The Act of Settlement passed on 12th June 1701 and i would like a list of those 42 or so people if possible.

Many thanks.
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  #937  
Old 02-22-2015, 07:59 PM
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You obviously not listening or reading so it not wort it.
I am sorry that you feel that I am not listening or reading. I asked quite clearly who was in the line of succession in the year of 1701 before The Act of Settlement passed in 1701 and you responded by posting "The 1714 Line of Succession to the British Throne if the Acts of Settlement had not taken place Including Catholics and Jacobite:". I am only interested in knowing who was both alive and in line in the actual year of 1701 and not the year of 1714.

Princess Louisa Maria sister of James, the Old Pretender was born in 1692 and she was alive in 1701 so would i be correct to say that she would have been 2nd in line in 1701 before The Act of Settlement passed on 12th June 1701? You are not showing her on your list because your list is for the year 1714 and she would not be included in your list as she died in 1712. I am trying to compile a list of those people in line who was living in the actual year of 1701. Anyone who died after 1701 or was born after 1701 would not appear on the list that i am compiling as i want to show who was actually standing in line on the 12th June 1701.

If you can provide a list of people who were both alive and in line in the actual year of 1701 and not 1714 then i would be most grateful for a list of those in line in the actual year of 1701 and not after this year but if not then i thank you for your interest that you have shown and i will look elsewhere to help compile my list.

Many thanks.
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  #938  
Old 02-22-2015, 11:43 PM
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A list of the legitimate-line descendants of James I who where alive at some point in 1701:

1. Anne of Great Britain
2. James II
3. James Francis Edward Stuart
4. Louisa Maria Theresa Stuart
5. Anne Marie d’Orleans
6. Victor Amadeus, Prince of Piedmont
7. Charles Emmanuel III of Sardinia
8. Marie Adelaide of Savoy
9. Marie Luisa of Savoy
10. Karl Moritz, Prince of the Palatinate
11. Elizabeth Charlotte, Princess of the Palatinate
12. Philippe II, Duke of Orleans
13. Marie Louise Elisabeth of Orleans
14. Louise Adelaide of Orleans
15. Charlotte Aglae of Orleans
16. Elizabeth Charlotte of Orleans
17. Elisabeth Charlotte of Lorraine
18. Louise Christine of Lorraine
19. Charles Louis Schomberg, Marquess of Harwich
20. Lady Frederica Susanna Schomberg
21. Lady Maria Schomberg
22. Louise of the Palatinate
23. Amalie Elisabeth of the Palatinate
24. Anne Henriette of Bavaria
25. Louis, Prince of Conde
26. Louis Henri, Duke of Bourbon
27. Charles, Count of Charolais
28. Marie Anne Eleanore of Bourbon
29. Louise Elisabeth of Bourbon
30. Louise Anne of Bourbon
31. Marie Anne of Bourbon
32. Marie Therese of Bourbon
33. Louis Armand II, Prince of Conti
34. Marie Anne of Bourbon
35. Louise Adelaide of Bourbon
36. Louise Benedicte of Bourbon
37. Louis Auguste, Prince of Dombes
38. Louis Charles, Count of Eu
39. Marie Anne of Bourbon
40. Benedicta Henrietta of the Palatinate
41. Duchess Charlotte of Brunswick-Luneburg
42. Francesco III d’Este, Duke of Modena
43. Gian Frederico d’Este
44. Benedetta Maria Ernesta d’Este
45. Amalia Giuseppina d’Este
46. Henrietta Maria of Brunswick-Luneburg
47. Wilhelmine Amalia of Brunswick-Luneburg
48. Archduke Leopold Joseph of Austria
49. Archduchess Maria Josepha of Austria
50. Archduchess Maria Amalia of Austria
51. Louise Hollandine, Princess of the Palatinate
52. Sophia of the Palatinate
53. George Louis, Duke of Brunswick-Luneburg
54. George Augustus of Brunswick-Luneburg
55. Sophia Dorothea of Hanover
56. Maximilian William of Brunswick-Luneburg
57. Ernest Augustus of Brunswick-Luneburg
58. Sophia Charlotte of Hanover
59. Frederick William I of Prussia


Now, I did include several people who died in 1701 (such as James II himself, who died in September of 1701), as well as some who were born in 1701, so the list isn't going to be a perfect "these are the 59 descendants of James I who were alive on 12 June 1701 when the Act of Succession came into effect".
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  #939  
Old 02-23-2015, 12:25 AM
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A list of the legitimate-line descendants of James I who where alive at some point in 1701:

1. Anne of Great Britain
2. James II
3. James Francis Edward Stuart....
This is very similar to the one provided. Thank for sharing.
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  #940  
Old 02-23-2015, 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by BritishRoyalist View Post
This is very similar to the one provided. Thank for sharing.
I didn't go through your list too much (I wasn't going to provide one at all after I saw you'd done so as I figured it was accurate, and only did so because there seemed to be some issue of whether it was a 1701 or a 1714 list and just figured it wouldn't hurt to go "this is the 1701 list).

There isn't a huge difference between 1701 and 1714. A few people died, a few people were born. In both, George I is roughly the 60th person in a succession without barring Catholics (and considerably further down if we don't bar all those illegitimate lines). The only really big differences between 1701 and 1714 were that Anne, James, and Sophie all died in between the passing of the act and the ascension of George I.
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