The Act of Settlement 1701 and the Line of Succession

[Sister Morphine]

I agree with those who say that this change, should it be implemented, will start with William and Harry's kids. I think at this stage of the game, it would be ridiculous to make it retroactive as Elizabeth and Philip's first born wasn't a girl. Had Anne been born before Charles, I could understand some desire to make it start with the Queen's children.

As for barring Catholics from inheriting the throne or marrying into the royal family (and thus keeping their place in the line of succession), it just smacks of bigotry and it's about time it was done away with. Who can truly say whether a Catholic will rule better than an Anglican? Is there some unfounded fear that a Catholic monarch will put England under the heel of Rome, as was thought waaaaaay back in Tudor times?


I applaud them for at least discussing it; I never thought it would get this far.

[Emeralds and Opals]

Gordon Brown pledges to end 'discrimination' in Royal succession - Telegraph

Succession law change would have made Kaiser Wilhelm King of England - Telegraph

Comment Central - Times Online - WBLG: 10 eligible Catholics for the royal family

[Skydragon]

Gordon Brown has been accused of making an empty promise to tackle religious and sex discrimination in royal succession rules after his Government blocked an MP's bid to change the law.

PM criticised over royal law change - Yahoo! News UK

[Iluvbertie]

Originally Posted by HSHDukeFelician

In line with PM Brown's proposed changes to the Line of Succession, how great would these changes be.
Would they involve female heiresses such as Beatrice inherit their fathers dukedoms, additionally would members excluded by the Catholic ban, such as Prince Michael and Lord St. Andrews be entitled to reclaim their claim on the throne.

It is quite an interesting topic.

There is no suggestion of passing the required laws to change the current peerages with their remainders (and my understanding is that each one would require a new LP to be issued or a law passed to change the existing LPs).

What this would mean is that the highest title in the land has gender blind succession but that most, if not all, other peerages would remain male primogeniture or in most cases male only. Therefore Beatrice would NOT be able to inherit the York dukedom but a younger brother would. But Beatrice can be top dog so to speak.

[Skydragon]

This could be where the government will have problems, if the law is changed with regard to the royal family, they leave themselves open to legal challenges by first born daughters of peers.
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Gordon Brown's assault on the traditions of the monarchy is preposterous

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/5...posterous.html

[Sir_knight]

The Queen sounded a note of caution yesterday over Gordon Brown's revolutionary plans to bring equality to the monarchy. Buckingham Palace said no changes to the laws and traditions of the Crown could be made until every country where the Queen is head of state had given its approval. That means years of delay while 15 legislatures – including those of Australia, New Zealand and Canada – quibble over the Prime Minister's proposals.


Behind the Queen's insistence on cast-iron support from the Commonwealth is thought to lie her deep concern about the role of Christianity in Britain and the unforeseen impact of any reforms.


Mr Brown aims to remove the 308- year-old legal barriers that prevent a Roman Catholic or anyone married to a Catholic from becoming King. He also intends to sweep away primogeniture, the ancient principle that says a man must always take precedence over a woman in line to the throne. The surprise announcement that Downing Street and the Palace were in talks over reforms was made by Mr Brown's aides during a visit to Brasilia on Thursday.

Yesterday the Prime Minister accepted that Commonwealth countries must have a say, but added: 'I think in the 21st century people do expect discrimination to be removed and they do expect us to be looking at these issues.'

spokesman for Buckingham Palace, however, said: 'This entire issue for us depends on obtaining agreement from each of the 15 realms of which the Queen is head of state. If an agreement were to be reached, then we would assess the situation. But not until then.'

It was underlined yesterday that the Queen is deeply committed to her overseas dominions and wants to be seen as taking her lead from them, not from the British Government.

And while Buckingham Palace was neutral over Mr Brown's reforms and the equality agenda that informs them, the Queen is known to be concerned over their impact on Christian belief and practice in Britain.

She is a serious Anglican and is aware of the possibility that Christianity may be sidelined if reforms to the monarchy culminate in the severance of the historic constitutional links between the Church of England and the state. Mr Brown's reforms would mean the repeal of the Act of Settlement, the 1701 law designed to prevent the return of the Catholic Stuarts.

The abolition of primogeniture would open up the succession to women – for example Princess Anne would become fourth in line after Charles, William and Harry, and would overtake her brothers, Princes Andrew and Edward. In the Commons, few MPs attended a debate on Liberal Democrat Dr Evan Harris's private members Bill calling for the same reforms.

It was effectively scuppered as Justice Secretary Jack Straw said Dr Harris's Bill was 'not the appropriate vehicle' for reform. Tories meanwhile accused the Government of trying to divert attention from economic troubles. Former minister Nicholas Soames said: 'This is an extraordinary thing to be talking about when the G20 summit is starting next week. It is a very, very odd time to raise it.'

[Kotroman]

Originally Posted by Skydragon

This could be where the government will have problems, if the law is changed with regard to the royal family, they leave themselves open to legal challenges by first born daughters of peers.
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Gordon Brown's assault on the traditions of the monarchy is preposterous

Gordon Brown's assault on the traditions of the monarchy is preposterous - Telegraph

That's right. Once they start changing 1000-year old laws, they won't stop at succession to the crown. If the succession to the throne becomes gender-blind, I'm 100% sure they'll say: if women and men have the same right to succeed to the throne, why can't women succeed to peerages Are they less capable to hold the Dukedom of Norfolk? That means we'll see Beatrice as 2nd Duchess of York and Louise as 2nd Countess of Wessex, and suo jure Duchesses of Norfolk... The whole system of peerage will break down.

[Mermaid1962]

I certainly hope that this is the case, Sir_knight.

Originally Posted by Sir_knight

Behind the Queen's insistence on cast-iron support from the Commonwealth is thought to lie her deep concern about the role of Christianity in Britain and the unforeseen impact of any reforms.

[MAfan]

Originally Posted by Kotroman

That's right. Once they start changing 1000-year old laws, they won't stop at succession to the crown. If the succession to the throne becomes gender-blind, I'm 100% sure they'll say: if women and men have the same right to succeed to the throne, why can't women succeed to peerages Are they less capable to hold the Dukedom of Norfolk? That means we'll see Beatrice as 2nd Duchess of York and Louise as 2nd Countess of Wessex, and suo jure Duchesses of Norfolk... The whole system of peerage will break down.

This is exactly the first thing I have thought...together with the fact that a Catholic King or Queen is a contradiction, because the King is the Head of the Anglican Church...
But make me understand: is this reform only an idea and a possibility, or is sure that the laws will change?

[Mermaid1962]

Exactly, Kotroman. What affects the monarch eventually effects everyone else.

Originally Posted by Kotroman

That's right. Once they start changing 1000-year old laws, they won't stop at succession to the crown. If the succession to the throne becomes gender-blind, I'm 100% sure they'll say: if women and men have the same right to succeed to the throne, why can't women succeed to peerages Are they less capable to hold the Dukedom of Norfolk? That means we'll see Beatrice as 2nd Duchess of York and Louise as 2nd Countess of Wessex, and suo jure Duchesses of Norfolk... The whole system of peerage will break down.

[Kotroman]

That's what I fear Mermaid! :( And then, when women have the same rights as men to succeed to any peerage or throne, people will start wondering: "Isn't it discriminating that they [royals] can become monarchs and we can't? Let's overthrow them and make everyone equal so that anyone can become a monarch!"

Originally Posted by MAfan

But make me understand: is this reform only an idea and a possibility, or is sure that the laws will change?

Well, since people seem to care more and more about "gender-equality" than about traditions of the monarchy, I believe it's only a matter of time when we see equal primogeniture in the UK. Then we'll see Tim Laurence as The Prince Anne, since Sophie Rhys-Jones became The Princess Edward, and The Duke of Edinburgh as king, since his mother-in-law was queen - they want gender equality, don't they?! Even if the changes are not retroactive, they would still have to style Princess Beatrice's husband as Prince Beatrice of York since there will be Princess William of Wales - husbands and wives should also be treated equally, shouldn't they?! Or will they change everything that characterizes British monarchy in order to make place for equal primogeniture?

It's strange that nobody asks the Queen, her daughter and granddaughters how they feel about the proposed changes. Perhaps they are traditional enough to be satisfied with their current places in the line of succession.

Anyway, how is equal primogeniture going to help British women in their everyday life? Is it going to help them get jobs that are usually reserved for men? Is it going to make men cook, clean and wash as much as their wives do or what?

[Sir_knight]

Originally Posted by Mermaid1962

I certainly hope that this is the case, Sir_knight.

Well I think the Queen is a true woman of faith and certainly I have read about her strong convictions in relation to Christianity. Lord Carey for example said that the Queen was not adversed to correcting her Archbishops. :)

[Lumutqueen]

Julie Burchill | David Starkey | Is Beatrix of Holland our real Queen? | The Sun |Features

Queen Beatrix, the real Queen of the Uk.
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[Kotroman]

Ummm, no. No country allows monarch's step-children to succeed. Sophie of Württemberg would've been succeed by her nephew, King William II of Württemberg, not by the daughter born by her husband's second wife. And even if Beatrix somehow ascended the throne, she still wouldn't be "the REAL queen of England" since there is no Kingdom of England since 1707.

[Al_bina]

World View: A Shakeup in the British Royal Household?

Buckingham Palace is in talks with Prime Minister Gordon Brown about rewriting the royal laws when it comes to marriage and succession to the throne.

[Sir_knight]

Originally Posted by lumutqueen

Julie Burchill | David Starkey | Is Beatrix of Holland our real Queen? | The Sun |Features

Queen Beatrix, the real Queen of the Uk.
x

I always did like Prof David Starkey-

"Which is the more discriminatory institution – the monarchy or the Catholic Church?"


I don't agree with Julie Burchill when she says-

"Look at the region with the highest proportion of monarchs on earth, the Muslim Arab world, with all its repression, ignorance and vile flaunting of wealth by the super-rich. "

She fails to point out the differnce between an absolute monarchy and a constitutional monarchy. A comment like that is enough to make any left wing reader of the Sun gran the red flag and storm Buck Palace.

[Emeralds and Opals]

Queen is not amused by Brown's Royal succession plan | Mail Online

[Sir_knight]

Originally Posted by Emeralds and Opals

Queen is not amused by Brown's Royal succession plan | Mail Online

OOps I did not get a link in the Email that was sent to me I had a feeling it would be from the mail.

[BeatrixFan]

Does it really matter? To be honest I'm far more interested in not being able to get a doctor's appointment when I need one, the regular stabbings in my local area and the rising price of almost everything. Whether Princess Anne is fourth or tenth in the Royal race really doesn't bother me one bit.

[Royal Fan]

I Think its fine as is ...but also im agaist Discrimanation so I Just hope The UK Doesnt lose the Monarchy