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  #261  
Old 08-02-2006, 10:09 AM
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A few years ago after the death of Diana an official at Buckingham Palace on condition of annoynmity has confirmed that The Queen has issued a decree banning members' of her family from marrying a Muslim.
No, that isn't correct at all I'm afraid. The Queen doesn't issue decrees. A decision like that would have to go through Parliament and the media would have had a field day. So no, it didn't happen.

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Hypothetically, I wonder what would happen if one converted to the Protestant faith (from Catholicism) to marry a member of the Brit. Royal Family & they would raise the kids in the CofE, but then a few years later, went back to Catholicism?
Well Lady J, it's an interesting one. The Duchess of Kent converted and the Duke still kept his place in succession because he hadn't married a Catholic, she had converted after their marriage. The Kent's children kept their places in succession until they converted and lost their places. That does beg the question of what would happen, if the Prince of Wales married a protestant but she converted when she was Queen Consort.
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  #262  
Old 08-02-2006, 11:46 AM
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I think that as long as the children were still raised in the Church of England (or whichever Protestant denomination they were being raised in), it wouldn't cause a problem. If the Duke of Kent remained in the line of succession it would set a precedent for a future monarch or heir, since the ban on Catholic marriage extends to the Kents and has affected both the Duke's brother and his sons.
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  #263  
Old 08-02-2006, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
No, that isn't correct at all I'm afraid. The Queen doesn't issue decrees. A decision like that would have to go through Parliament and the media would have had a field day. So no, it didn't happen.



Well Lady J, it's an interesting one. The Duchess of Kent converted and the Duke still kept his place in succession because he hadn't married a Catholic, she had converted after their marriage. The Kent's children kept their places in succession until they converted and lost their places. That does beg the question of what would happen, if the Prince of Wales married a protestant but she converted when she was Queen Consort.
After the wedding of Prince Charles with Camilla Parker Bowles last year,The Queen revamped the precedence order of members' of the royal family which is known as "Precedence to be Observed at Court" where HRH Princess Alexandra is listed the second most senior royal lady after The Queen and is followed by HRH Princess Anne,the Princess Royal.Isn't that known as royal decree?If it is,then no need to get the Parliament's permission as it is the internal affair of the royal family.
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  #264  
Old 08-02-2006, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Elspeth
Thanks, Norwegianne! With both Taylor girls in there, this one does look up to date.
No, Prince Sverre Magnus should supercede his sister Princes Ingrid Alexander.
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  #265  
Old 08-02-2006, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Elspeth
I think that as long as the children were still raised in the Church of England (or whichever Protestant denomination they were being raised in), it wouldn't cause a problem. If the Duke of Kent remained in the line of succession it would set a precedent for a future monarch or heir, since the ban on Catholic marriage extends to the Kents and has affected both the Duke's brother and his sons.
That brought to my mind two questions,
1. if the person listed in the Sucession Line marries a catholic, and later that spouse converts to the Church of England, does the person in the line of sucession gets his/her's position re-established? For example, the Prince of Kent.

2. anyone knows what is the protocol if a member of the Royal Family (extended members included) marries a Catholic, like is the catholic spouse-to-be approached in an attempt to convert to the church of England? Are they given options and made aware of the consequences?
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  #266  
Old 08-03-2006, 04:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Toledo
That brought to my mind two questions,
1. if the person listed in the Sucession Line marries a catholic, and later that spouse converts to the Church of England, do the person in the line of sucession gets his/her's position re-established? For example, the Prince of Kent.
Once out of the line of succession you are out forever - no going back.

This is in case the following scenario unfolded. (There were probably other reasons at the time but this is a problem that could arise)

William marries a Catholic and is excluded from the line of succession.

The Queen and Charles die.

Either William's eldest son/daughter if any or Harry inherits the throne.

Then William's wife converts to COE - who is not the monarch - the proclaimed monarch or William whose wife is now COE.


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2. anyone knows what is the protocol if a member of the Royal Family (extended members included) marries a Catholic, like is the catholic spouse-to-be approached in an attempt to convert to the church of England? Are they given options and made aware of the consequences?
I would expect that if William or Harry wanted to marry a Catholic then the girl would be asked to convert but if further down the line of succession then probably no-one would bother to ask them e.g. Prince Michael of Kent.
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  #267  
Old 08-04-2006, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by srivishnu
After the wedding of Prince Charles with Camilla Parker Bowles last year,The Queen revamped the precedence order of members' of the royal family which is known as "Precedence to be Observed at Court" where HRH Princess Alexandra is listed the second most senior royal lady after The Queen and is followed by HRH Princess Anne,the Princess Royal.Isn't that known as royal decree?If it is,then no need to get the Parliament's permission as it is the internal affair of the royal family.
Precedence is a private affair and Her Majesty's "decree" only applies at court and not at other events. Therefore it is not in the same domain as the line of succession. Also HRH Princess Alexandra, The Hon. Lady Ogilvy is after HRH The Princess Royal in the Precedence at court, as Anne is the Daughter of The Sovereign while Alexandra is only a cousin.
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  #268  
Old 08-04-2006, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by chrissy57
I would expect that if William or Harry wanted to marry a Catholic then the girl would be asked to convert but if further down the line of succession then probably no-one would bother to ask them e.g. Prince Michael of Kent.
Princess Michael was asked to convert but she refused.
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  #269  
Old 08-04-2006, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Warren
"Shameful" for who? How? Why?
Rather than making these pronouncements as statements of fact, it would be better to give reasons for such opinions, and preferably based on something of substance.
The relevance of this to the Line of Succession would be also be welcome.

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Just say,HRH Prince William marries a Muslim girl and he converts to Islam,wouldn't it embarass and disgrace the royal family?Moreover,he is the heir to the British throne.When the late Princess Diana was "flirting" with Dodi Al-Fayed (a Muslim),it did disgraced the royal family especially The Queen as Diana is the mother of the future British monarch.Do you think The Queen would tolerate to see the mother of Britain's Head of State a Muslim?
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  #270  
Old 08-05-2006, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by srivishnu
Just say,HRH Prince William marries a Muslim girl and he converts to Islam,wouldn't it embarass and disgrace the royal family?Moreover,he is the heir to the British throne.When the late Princess Diana was "flirting" with Dodi Al-Fayed (a Muslim),it did disgraced the royal family especially The Queen as Diana is the mother of the future British monarch.Do you think The Queen would tolerate to see the mother of Britain's Head of State a Muslim?
Diana dating Dodi Fayed ( he never used the 'al' unlike his father who had more social pretentions) didn't affect the royal family, negative stories are all tabloid stories originating from Mohamed al Fayed and his conspiracy theories.

Why would William convert if he married a Muslim? ( Non Muslims do marry Muslims without converting) The issue with him converting to any religion is that the monarch is also the Head of the Church of England, William would need to be of that religion. He can't really convert to another Protestant church either ( eg Lutheran) but only conversion to catholicism would get him struck off the line of succession. Converting to Islam wouldn't.

Why view Islam so negatively, that the royal family would be disgraced and embarrassed? Charles in particular is quite sympathetic to Islam and does a lot to try and present the positive aspects and understanding of Islam, also Islamic art. The Queen and Charles have visited mosques in the UK.
Charles himself has stated that he would like to be "Defender of all Faiths" thereby including all Christian and non-christian religions when he is king. Currently the monarch is "The Defender of The Faith" The Faith being the Church of England.
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  #271  
Old 08-05-2006, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by srivishnu
Just say,HRH Prince William marries a Muslim girl and he converts to Islam,wouldn't it embarass and disgrace the royal family?Moreover,he is the heir to the British throne.When the late Princess Diana was "flirting" with Dodi Al-Fayed (a Muslim),it did disgraced the royal family especially The Queen as Diana is the mother of the future British monarch.Do you think The Queen would tolerate to see the mother of Britain's Head of State a Muslim?
Srivishnu, once again I'll ask for some substantiation for your sweeping statements... Where is any evidence that the Royal Family, or The Queen herself, were "disgraced" at Diana dating a Muslim? Or that The Queen held any particular opinion on the possible future religious convictions of her former daughter-in-law? Or that The Queen would not "tolerate to see the mother of Britain's Head of State a Muslim?"

Why would Diana's religion have any bearing on the status or stability of the British Monarchy? Why would anyone be "embarrassed" or "disgraced"?

In regard to succession, here is a passage from the Act of Settlement which determines these matters: "That whosoever shall hereafter come to the possession of this Crown, shall join in communion with the Church of England, as by law established."

While it is possible that Prince William may convert to Islam, I think it is fair to speculate that the probability is low. Alternatively, you may consider a scenario where Prince William became engaged to a Muslim woman who chose to convert to Anglicanism.
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  #272  
Old 08-05-2006, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Warren
Srivishnu, once again I'll ask for some substantiation for your sweeping statements... Where is any evidence that the Royal Family, or The Queen herself, were "disgraced" at Diana dating a Muslim? Or that The Queen held any particular opinion on the possible future religious convictions of her former daughter-in-law? Or that The Queen would not "tolerate to see the mother of Britain's Head of State a Muslim?"

Why would Diana's religion have any bearing on the status or stability of the British Monarchy? Why would anyone be "embarrassed" or "disgraced"?

In regard to succession, here is a passage from the Act of Settlement which determines these matters: "That whosoever shall hereafter come to the possession of this Crown, shall join in communion with the Church of England, as by law established."

While it is possible that Prince William may convert to Islam, I think it is fair to speculate that the probability is low. Alternatively, you may consider a scenario where Prince William became engaged to a Muslim woman who chose to convert to Anglicanism.
The British Monarchy is originally and naturally Christian.All kings' and queens' of Britian has been Christian,so I am sure The Queen would prefer her successor be Christian generally and Anglican specifically.The next question is,will a Muslim girl convert to christianity?
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  #273  
Old 08-05-2006, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by srivishnu
After the wedding of Prince Charles with Camilla Parker Bowles last year,The Queen revamped the precedence order of members' of the royal family which is known as "Precedence to be Observed at Court" where HRH Princess Alexandra is listed the second most senior royal lady after The Queen and is followed by HRH Princess Anne,the Princess Royal.Isn't that known as royal decree?If it is,then no need to get the Parliament's permission as it is the internal affair of the royal family.
Court precedence is determined by the Sovereign and has nothing to do with official precedence, which is based on your place (or your husband's) in the line of succession to the throne.

At court, after The Queen, is Princess Anne, then Princess Alexandra followed by The Duchess of Cornwall. For state and official occasions, Camilla follows The Queen as the wife of The Prince of Wales.
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  #274  
Old 08-05-2006, 09:47 AM
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The Queen cannot issue letters patent without taking advice from the Prime Minister. Marriages for members of the royal family are governed by the Royal Marriages Act and there is no such provision barring a marriage to a Muslim, although certainly the Prime Minister and Parliament could advise the Sovereign against it for political reasons.

The Act of Settlement forbids a Roman Catholic from becoming the Sovereign and denies rights of succession to those who marry one.
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  #275  
Old 08-05-2006, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Charlotte1
Diana dating Dodi Fayed ( he never used the 'al' unlike his father who had more social pretentions) didn't affect the royal family, negative stories are all tabloid stories originating from Mohamed al Fayed and his conspiracy theories.

Why would William convert if he married a Muslim? ( Non Muslims do marry Muslims without converting) The issue with him converting to any religion is that the monarch is also the Head of the Church of England, William would need to be of that religion. He can't really convert to another Protestant church either ( eg Lutheran) but only conversion to catholicism would get him struck off the line of succession. Converting to Islam wouldn't.

Why view Islam so negatively, that the royal family would be disgraced and embarrassed? Charles in particular is quite sympathetic to Islam and does a lot to try and present the positive aspects and understanding of Islam, also Islamic art. The Queen and Charles have visited mosques in the UK.
Charles himself has stated that he would like to be "Defender of All Faiths" thereby including all Christian and non-christian religions when he is king. Currently the monarch is "The Defender of The Faith" The Faith being the Church of England.
Aftermath the September 11th 2001 incident,most Heads of Government and Heads of State are sympathetic to Islam and Muslims.I am glad to know that Charles would like to be "Defender of All Faiths" instead of "Defender of The Faith".Let's say HRH Prince William marries a Muslim and converts to Islam,would Britons or Commonwealth citizens like to see an European country have a Muslim Head of State?In addition,all the Commonwealth whom The Queen is Head of State will have a Muslim Head of State too.
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  #276  
Old 08-05-2006, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by branchg
Court precedence is determined by the Sovereign and has nothing to do with official precedence, which is based on your place (or your husband's) in the line of succession to the throne.

At court, after The Queen, is Princess Anne, then Princess Alexandra followed by The Duchess of Cornwall. For state and official occasions, Camilla follows The Queen as the wife of The Prince of Wales.
If I am not mistaken,court precedence is based on the age or seniority.
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  #277  
Old 08-05-2006, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by srivishnu
If I am not mistaken,court precedence is based on the age or seniority.
Yes, you are mistaken. Branchg has explained it at post #214.
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  #278  
Old 08-05-2006, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Warren
Yes, you are mistaken. Branchg has explained it at post #214.
What I meant was that I was not mistaken not I was mistaken.
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  #279  
Old 08-05-2006, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by srivishnu
Just say,HRH Prince William marries a Muslim girl and he converts to Islam,wouldn't it embarass and disgrace the royal family?Moreover,he is the heir to the British throne.When the late Princess Diana was "flirting" with Dodi Al-Fayed (a Muslim),it did disgraced the royal family especially The Queen as Diana is the mother of the future British monarch.Do you think The Queen would tolerate to see the mother of Britain's Head of State a Muslim?
If Prince William converts to any other religion than Church of England he makes himself ineligible to be King; Islam isn't unique in that respect.

I see no reason why the Queen would have a problem with Charles's divorced wife marrying someone of another religion than Christian as long as assurances were given that the princes would continue to be raised as Church of England members.

Quote:
Aftermath the September 11th 2001 incident,most Heads of Government and Heads of State are sympathetic to Islam and Muslims.I am glad to know that Charles would like to be "Defender of All Faiths" instead of "Defender of The Faith".Let's say HRH Prince William marries a Muslim and converts to Islam,would Britons or Commonwealth citizens like to see an European country have a Muslim Head of State?In addition,all the Commonwealth whom The Queen is Head of State will have a Muslim Head of State too.
The monarch has to be a member of the Church of England. If William converted to any other religion or any other branch of Christianity and gave up being a communicant of the Church of England, he wouldn't be able to be king.
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  #280  
Old 08-05-2006, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by srivishnu
Just say,HRH Prince William marries a Muslim girl and he converts to Islam,wouldn't it embarass and disgrace the royal family?Moreover,he is the heir to the British throne.When the late Princess Diana was "flirting" with Dodi Al-Fayed (a Muslim),it did disgraced the royal family especially The Queen as Diana is the mother of the future British monarch.Do you think The Queen would tolerate to see the mother of Britain's Head of State a Muslim?
I believe she has made statements on her assorted racial ancestry so I don't see why she would even think this would be any kind of disgrace for the Crown. Quite the opposite, despite the seriousness of her job, she has always seem to me to be one of most open minded persons the British crown has ever seen. In the Royal Forums' Genealogy Sub Forum there is a link about the extraordinary ancestry of Queen Elizabeth II that includes people from many races representing the three continents known at that moment (Europe, Africa and Asia).

Here is the link to that post that contains the information of the Queen's multi racial and multi religious ancestry.
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