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  #141  
Old 12-29-2011, 12:08 PM
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On topic; so exactly where, in terms of the actual change in the law of primogeniture are they? I'm somewhat confused as to what actually happened at the conference in Australia. From some news outlets making it seem as though the change had taken place to others making it seems as if what happened is 'we have decided to decide'.

Has the UK parliament (or whoever approves these things there) actually approved the change & they're just waiting for the rest of the Commonwealth to do the same? Or has nothing 'formal' taken place?

Sorry for my seeming ignorance.
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  #142  
Old 12-29-2011, 12:23 PM
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It's not ignorance I was confused this morning, but all I could find is this guardian article.
There's a part that says;
"In a meeting in Perth this morning, to be chaired by the Australian prime minister, Julia Gillard, the leaders of the 16 Queen's realms will agree to amend rules." and this was written on the 28th October.
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  #143  
Old 12-29-2011, 03:15 PM
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A committee was put in place to study how best to go about things, lead by NZ I believe. So far no legislation has been passed in the UK or any of the other realms. As of today things remain the way they were. I doubt if it is at the top of any governments legislative agenda.

The Guardian article seems to suggest that a chnage would affect the current succession order of the Queens children, moving Anne ahead of Andrew, while other articles suggest the change would only inpact on those yet to be born. Probably we will have to wait for the legislation, when ever that may happen.
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  #144  
Old 12-29-2011, 05:45 PM
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There was something said at the time about it taking about 4 years to get the legislation through each of the parliaments.

I also believe it has to be passed in the same wording in each one - can't say why I believe that but I think it goes back to studying the Statute of Westminster. Now if one of the relevant parliaments wants to change one word then it has to go back to the others again - so I suspect that they will agree on the legislation to be put first of course but then each parliament has its own processes, and in the case of Australia at least two houses of parliament (and I believe at least one state parliament also has to agree as Qld declared the Queen Queen of Queensland in addition to her position as Queen of Australia)

All the reports I have seen, except the Guardian, say that it will be taking effect for the descendents of Charles.
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  #145  
Old 12-29-2011, 09:47 PM
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Not all of the parliaments need to act. The constitutions of Papua New Guinea and Tuvalu simply place the sovereign of the United Kingdom on their thrones, whoever that is and however his or her identity is determined.
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  #146  
Old 01-06-2012, 01:50 AM
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This is an interesting question, I wonder if all need to pass their own legislation or if they will ratify the one passed in Westminster. I hope this issue is officially dealt with this year. What a wonderful gift for the Queen to give equal rights to her female heirs.
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  #147  
Old 01-06-2012, 04:02 AM
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As each of the realms are totally independent they will have to deal with it according to their own constitutions. Even if just to assert that independence psychologically for their own people most will take it through their own parliaments. Following the Australia Act the parliament here will have to pass it as no new legislation in Britain has any effect here unless separately passed here. I suspect that is the same for Canada and New Zealand.

Jamaica is talking about becoming a republic, since the election of the new government, so the vote there could easily turn into a vote on becoming a republic - thus losing a realm.
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  #148  
Old 02-23-2012, 01:01 PM
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I don't know how quickly this issue will proceed because at the moment it's a nonissue really. The next two heirs to the throne are male not matter what. If William and Katherine have only girls or a girl first then I can see how it might become more pressing but since it could be a good 70 - 80 years before that child succeeds to the throne there is loads of time to deal with this issue if that's what the UK decides it wants.
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  #149  
Old 02-23-2012, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheManWhoSpoke View Post
There are some people that still consider these things relevant, and some that do not.
If you are speaking in terms of the current Monarch, it has been known for ages that HM defers to her husband in all matters of the familial household.

As far as the Queen being Head of State, when her father died, that became her hereditary role and she took it on like a trooper and continues to do so, with wisdom and fairness. Her husband was not prepared and had no right to be king. He was aware that he was marrying the heir to the British throne.

She has not usurped any power from her husband, in the Biblical or any other sense.
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  #150  
Old 02-23-2012, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellydofc View Post
but since it could be a good 70 - 80 years before that child succeeds to the throne there is loads of time to deal with this issue if that's what the UK decides it wants.
Except it won't be another 70-80 years before the child is born. If you wait until William is on his death bed to change the legislation for his child, they won't have enough time. This process could take years, to finalise all the wording, work out the problems with existing legislation. It's not going to happen tomorrow, but if it's changing it needs to start soon.
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  #151  
Old 02-23-2012, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
Except it won't be another 70-80 years before the child is born. If you wait until William is on his death bed to change the legislation for his child, they won't have enough time. This process could take years, to finalise all the wording, work out the problems with existing legislation. It's not going to happen tomorrow, but if it's changing it needs to start soon.
That is true.
Honestly I don't see the succession law changing any time soon. It's not like it was in the 16th century where people thought women couldn't rule at all and there was the overwhelming pressure to produce a son. I think most people feel if there are only girls and one reigns fine but if there's a boy and he reigns ahead of any older sisters that's fine too.
Truthfully, outside of these boards no one I talked to in England, when I was there last year, seemed to care one way or the other (funnily it seems to be a bigger topic of conversation here in the US. Interesting cultural difference there). And that ambivalence in general will do more to kill the topic than anything else could.
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  #152  
Old 02-23-2012, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellydofc View Post
Honestly I don't see the succession law changing any time soon.
It won't change anytime soon because the legislation that is being written up, debated over, worked out will take a few years. But it is happening, it was decided at the CHOGM meeting in Perth last year. They will need to be approved by 14 of the 16 commonwealth parliaments and then receive royal assent.

A bill placed before the Prime Ministers in Perth stated that

Quote:
The changes would replace male preference primogeniture with absolute primogeniture for descendants of the current Prince of Wales, end the ban on marriage to Catholics, and limit the requirement for those in line to the throne to acquire permission of the sovereign to marry. However the requirement for the sovereign to be in communion with the Church of England would remain
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  #153  
Old 02-27-2012, 10:18 AM
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Posts discussing the position of the Monarch as Supreme Governor of the Church of England have been moved to the The Sovereign & the Church of England thread.
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  #154  
Old 05-10-2012, 02:45 PM
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Nothing new;
Kate Middleton: Crown will pass to Duchess of Cambridge's first-born even if it is a girl | Mail Online
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  #155  
Old 05-10-2012, 03:07 PM
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Nothing new at all, and Catherine could well be the mother of a couple of children before all the necessary legislation is passed.
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  #156  
Old 05-10-2012, 03:22 PM
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Like I've said earlier, I sure welcome a change, so that Roman Catholics aren't discriminated anymore. But I'm less sure about what to think about the first-born, reguardless of gender, being the heir appearent. I don't want women to be discriminated, but monarchy is so full of old traditions anyway, that I don't mind male primogeniture, even though it would seem awfully dated these days in many other situations. And like Graham Smith said, one of the children would still be the most privileged.
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  #157  
Old 05-23-2012, 04:46 AM
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Maybe they think if they keep repeating this 'good' information it might make them look good;
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-confirms.html
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  #158  
Old 05-23-2012, 05:35 AM
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How many times does the government think they can announce the same policy? Once is enough.

This really annoys me, though. The government are choosing to tinker with the constitution - royal succession, House of Lords - when those things are not priorities for the electorate. They should just leave this issue alone until such times as William and Kate have their first child. If it's a girl, then go ahead and change it; if it's a boy just leave it alone for a generation and concentrate on the things that really affect the lives of ordinary people.

It's not as if we don't have enough problems to keep the politicians busy.
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  #159  
Old 08-02-2012, 09:55 PM
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Male Preference Primogeniture to Survive?

The reform I have read about would apply to descendants of Prince Charles. Of course it is highly likely that William's children or, failing that, Harry's will eventually succeed to the throne. Yet there is still some chance that these lines will die out. So does that mean for those next in the succession, i.e. Andrew, his daughters and their eventual children, male-preference primogeniture would survive? So if Beatrice has a daughter before a son her son is still ranked higher in the line of succession than his older sister? The same question could be asked about the thousands of descendants of every one else in line after Charles' sons from Elizabeth's other children and grandchildren all the way down to various obscure Germans. This seems rather sloppy, but that is the logic of the proposal under discussion.
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  #160  
Old 08-03-2012, 02:02 PM
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The proposed legislation is expected to be retrospective to 2011; those born prior to that date will remain subject to male primogeniture; those born after will be subject to equal primogeniture succession. Thus any child born to Princess Beatrice will be subject to equal primogeniture.

The principle and application is straightforward: no person currently living will be personally affected by the new arrangements.
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