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  #981  
Old 07-22-2013, 07:40 PM
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If anything the only real effect of passing it anytime soon would mean that republicans would have to stop concern trolling over people losing their places in the succession over marrying Catholics.
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  #982  
Old 07-22-2013, 10:46 PM
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I am glad this question can be put to a stop for a generation.
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  #983  
Old 07-23-2013, 02:58 AM
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Why move it to the backburner? Do it and get it done with. Putting it on the back burner is the same as stopping it. Why waste all the time and effort put into it so far, just to set it aside now, even if temporarily?
I couldn't agree more with you. There was NEVER any urgency for this new law to be passed and the efforts made so far should not be wasted simply because it is presumed it is not now needed or that parliaments apparently shoudl not waste their time on it. Parliaments are not just there to deal with current issues (which frankly they waste too much time on anyway with LITTLE result).

It is a simple fact and quite reasonable and correct that in a situation where only one person can, or is allowed to, inherit something, that that person should be the first born child.
Accordingly, it is right and proper to ensure that a change in the law concerning succession is well established by the time such situation arises even if such situation does not come to pass for another few decades.
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  #984  
Old 07-23-2013, 04:27 AM
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Yes, so am I.
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  #985  
Old 07-23-2013, 06:34 AM
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I, also :)
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  #986  
Old 07-25-2013, 07:57 AM
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Her Majesty's realms share the same monarch but otherwise are independent of each other. That means that each realm could alter, for itself, the line of succession. Each realm can also choose who will be regent. So, for example, while Prince Harry is regent for the United Kingdom, Australia could make a law that makes Princess Anne the regent. So, for purposes of selecting the Governor-General and the state governors, Princess Anne would be the one whose appointing power would be recognized.
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  #987  
Old 07-25-2013, 08:33 AM
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I'd have to ask Iluvbertie on this but I don't think it works like that, well in my mind it shouldn't. This is why the succesion act must be agreed by all commonwealth realms.
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  #988  
Old 07-25-2013, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ralmcg View Post
Her Majesty's realms share the same monarch but otherwise are independent of each other. That means that each realm could alter, for itself, the line of succession. Each realm can also choose who will be regent. So, for example, while Prince Harry is regent for the United Kingdom, Australia could make a law that makes Princess Anne the regent. So, for purposes of selecting the Governor-General and the state governors, Princess Anne would be the one whose appointing power would be recognized.
Well, if you look at the way the current attempt to change the succession is happening it's been treated as an all of nothing - either they all change the succession or they don't.

I don't think each realm could - or would - have a different regent either. Most of the realms seem to accept the idea that whoever is the monarch in the UK, or regent for that matter, is the monarch or regent throughout the Commonwealth.

If Australia, say, wanted to name Anne as their monarch instead of Charles, then Australia would no longer have need for a Governor General as Anne would (presumably) move to live in Australia and would not need a full time representative of the crown, which is essentially what the GG is.
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  #989  
Old 07-25-2013, 12:45 PM
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I was wondering was there ever talks of changing the Succession Law when Charles and William were born?
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  #990  
Old 07-25-2013, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by ralmcg View Post
Her Majesty's realms share the same monarch but otherwise are independent of each other. That means that each realm could alter, for itself, the line of succession. Each realm can also choose who will be regent. So, for example, while Prince Harry is regent for the United Kingdom, Australia could make a law that makes Princess Anne the regent. So, for purposes of selecting the Governor-General and the state governors, Princess Anne would be the one whose appointing power would be recognized.
In the differrent realms outside of the UK the Governor General is effectovely the Regent for the monarch so there is no need for a new royal Australian or Canadian Regent in the UK. It would make absolutely no sense at all to have different royal Regents living in the UK acting for the different realms.
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  #991  
Old 07-25-2013, 01:07 PM
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In the differrent realms outside of the UK the Governor General is effectovely the Regent for the monarch so there is no need for a new royal Australian or Canadian Regent in the UK. It would make absolutely no sense at all to have different royal Regents living in the UK acting for the different realms.
The Governors General of the other realms are still appointed by the monarch. In theory a realm, being independent of the UK, could choose a different way of choosing a regent, who would then formally appoint the Governor General in the name of the monarch.
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  #992  
Old 07-25-2013, 01:25 PM
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I realize that the GGs are appointed formally by the monarch but I do not understand your suggestion that we should have different Regents acting on behalf of the monarch for the different realms. It just seems silly and needlessly bureaucratic. We would have one regent in the UK acting on behalf of the monarch if need be. That seems quite sufficient to sign the warrants appointing the different GGs in the realms.
Why would Australia for instance come up with its own way of appointing a Regent who would then turn around and appoint a Governor General of Australia? I cannot see the sense in that at all.
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  #993  
Old 07-25-2013, 01:39 PM
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real matters need attention not hypothetical daughters and changes most people won't live to see take effect...we have monarchs lined up for the next 60 or 70 years barring the unthinkable.
I'm not sure I understand. Other countries with monarchs managed quite successfully and without fuss to change their laws of succession, without affecting the progress of their other respective parliamentary business.
One might think that it suggests the British parliament and the parliaments of the British realms are so incompetant and useless that they cannot manage to add one simple and straightforward addition to the business they are already dealing with. Or it might suggest that the parliaments of other monarchies have nothing significant to do other than tweak their constitutions.
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  #994  
Old 07-25-2013, 02:47 PM
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I certainly hope that contemporary lawmakers are concerned about the future, 60-70 years from now. What is fair and right is fair and right, regardless of how little or much affect it has on individuals living right now.
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  #995  
Old 07-25-2013, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Jacknch View Post

I'm not sure I understand. Other countries with monarchs managed quite successfully and without fuss to change their laws of succession, without affecting the progress of their other respective parliamentary business.
One might think that it suggests the British parliament and the parliaments of the British realms are so incompetant and useless that they cannot manage to add one simple and straightforward addition to the business they are already dealing with. Or it might suggest that the parliaments of other monarchies have nothing significant to do other than tweak their constitutions.
Changing constitutional matters is a lot harder than simply "tweaking" things.

This change has actually been implemented fairly well in most cases, but the methods through which some governments have done so has been questioned. Changing the constitution of a state that is divided into federal and state/provincial governments is a lot more than just one governmental body changing a law.

There's also the fact that the succession has religious discrimination in it, which is unconstitutional in some of the Commonwealth realms. Other realms can also use this to further the republican debate.

No other monarchy has had to change it's succession laws in 16 independent realms before. It's kind of understandable that this isn't turning out to be all that simple to do, regardless of the competence levels of the parliaments.
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  #996  
Old 07-25-2013, 03:46 PM
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I was wondering was there ever talks of changing the Succession Law when Charles and William were born?
I don't remember there being any talk about the succession changing when Diana was pregnant with William. If there was it was so muted that it was not mentioned in the press.

I would be very surprised if the matter was raised when the Queen was pregnant with Charles. King George was still reigning and, even though women had proved themselves during the recent war, women's rights/female equality were still very much in the future.
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  #997  
Old 07-25-2013, 05:22 PM
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The idea of a girl being able to inherit if William was a girl and then a boy was certainly mentioned in the press - I have the papers here - and it was stated then that it would happen - and would have actually been easier 30 years ago as a lot of the realms have passed new laws since then removing any power for the UK government to make laws for them on any issue.

The matter wasn't raised when The Queen was pregnant with Charles as no one would have thought that it was right - remember Denmark at that time still didn't allow a female to inherit at all - that was still a few years away from being changed to allow the present Queen to succeed her father.

As for a different regent - not on - as there would be a need for a new Regency Act to be passed in each realm allowing them to appoint their own Regent - to do what exactly - sign a couple of documents to appoint GGs or State/Provincial governors who do the actual work. So we would need 16 different realms to agree to allow each other to appoint different Regents - not going to happen.
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  #998  
Old 07-25-2013, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
The idea of a girl being able to inherit if William was a girl and then a boy was certainly mentioned in the press - I have the papers here - and it was stated then that it would happen - and would have actually been easier 30 years ago as a lot of the realms have passed new laws since then removing any power for the UK government to make laws for them on any issue.
You raise a really good point here.

Part of the problem in changing the law in Canada is the constitution (the other part, in my opinion, is the government). The constitution wasn't brought into effect in Canada until 2 months before William was born. It would have been easy then for Canada at least to change the succession.
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  #999  
Old 07-25-2013, 06:04 PM
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Isn't Canada ultimately going to follow what Great Britain does? And if not, would they choose an issue like secession to be different?
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  #1000  
Old 07-25-2013, 06:09 PM
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Canada is not a mindless follower of Great Britain.

I believe the intention in general is for all of the Commonwealth to pass the changes, as established by the commitment made to do so at a Commonwealth meeting a couple years ago.

The problem in Canada is threefold: on the one hand the way the government has tried to pass the laws is in violation of Canada's independence, on the other hand the way the government is doing so is in violation of the Canadian Constitution, and finally the laws themselves, namely the religious requirements, are in violation of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
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