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  #81  
Old 11-01-2011, 11:08 AM
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It was forward-thinking of Lord Mountbatten to do that, but unfortunate that this provision dies out eventually with male heirs. I wonder why the title couldn't be kept in perpetuity for his descendants regardless of gender?
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  #82  
Old 11-01-2011, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Baroness of Books View Post
It was forward-thinking of Lord Mountbatten to do that, but unfortunate that this provision dies out eventually with male heirs. I wonder why the title couldn't be kept in perpetuity for his descendants regardless of gender?
As I understand it a special remainder was not unusual for war heroes without sons and in Louis Mountbattens case it was pretty certain that he would have no sons, but they kept to the general peerage rules for male succession. Womens rights were not exactly an issue in the 1940's, and the extinction of a peerage doesn't exactly impact on the life of the nation.
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Old 11-01-2011, 03:38 PM
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^^^^Thank you again; you've been very informative!
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  #84  
Old 11-02-2011, 10:25 AM
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Sydney Morning Herald - 2 November 2011

Dr von der Osten: the German who would be queen of England

A homoeopathic doctor from Germany has been identified as the person who would be on the British throne if new rules on the royal succession had been adopted in the time of Queen Victoria. Friederike Thyra Marion Wilhelmine Dorothea von der Osten, 52, from Halle, a city in Germany, is descended from the long-serving monarch's eldest daughter Princess Victoria.

Speaking about succession, she said she had always known that if the rules were different she could have been queen - but that she could not see British people now accepting ''a German-educated person'' in the role.

Her heir apparent would be Felicitas Catharine Malina Johanna von Reiche, a 25-year-old marketing manager who lives in Berlin, who said she was ''easy-going'' about her family history, but probably knew more than most people about English royalty. Mother and daughter can trace their links to the British royal family back through Wilhelm II, the last German emperor and King of Prussia, who took his country into the First World War.

Dr von der Osten, who was born in Bonn in what was then West Germany, moved east after the fall of the Berlin Wall and has a medical practice in Halle. She said: ''I have always been aware of my place as descendant of Queen Victoria and that, if different succession rules had been observed, I could have had a right to the British throne. As a young girl, my mother met the Queen Mother but, as far as I know, she had no further contact. I have never met any members of the British royal family.
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  #85  
Old 11-02-2011, 08:38 PM
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Thanks for that link, Warren; it's fascinating to know the "what could have beens" with another scenario if equal primogeniture existed back then. So very intriguing to ponder the possibilities.
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  #86  
Old 11-03-2011, 12:11 AM
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It's an interesting possibility for what might have been. However, don't forget that Friederike's grandfather renounced his rights of succession for himself and his descendants when Kaiser Wilhelm II did not approve of his marriage.
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Old 11-03-2011, 12:34 AM
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Of course Vicky would never have been allowed to marry the Crown Prince of Prussia if she had been heiress apparent to the British throne.
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  #88  
Old 11-03-2011, 12:44 AM
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Of course Vicky would never have been allowed to marry the Crown Prince of Prussia if she had been heiress apparent to the British throne.
Fascinating...an heir apparent, and I mean this in theory only, would be able to wed who ever he chooses, but a heiress apparent would be restricted to only "certain" individuals. Theoretically of course...
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  #89  
Old 11-03-2011, 02:28 AM
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Fascinating...an heir apparent, and I mean this in theory only, would be able to wed who ever he chooses, but a heiress apparent would be restricted to only "certain" individuals. Theoretically of course...
Well I doubt that the then Prince of Wales, future Edward VII would have been allowed to have married the heir to the throne of the Netherlands so that would abolish your theory
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Old 11-03-2011, 02:33 AM
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Well I doubt that the then Prince of Wales, future Edward VII would have been allowed to have married the heir to the throne of the Netherlands so that would abolish your theory
Exactly, it just goes both ways!
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  #91  
Old 11-03-2011, 04:32 AM
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Fascinating...an heir apparent, and I mean this in theory only, would be able to wed who ever he chooses, but a heiress apparent would be restricted to only "certain" individuals. Theoretically of course...

Do you think that if Prince William had wanted to marry Crown Princess Victoria that would have been allowed? I doubt it as one of them would have to renounce their rights - no difference to the situation if Vicky had always been the heir instead of for only about one year.
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  #92  
Old 11-03-2011, 10:26 AM
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Do you think that if Prince William had wanted to marry Crown Princess Victoria that would have been allowed? I doubt it as one of them would have to renounce their rights - no difference to the situation if Vicky had always been the heir instead of for only about one year.
I agree, in theory, it would be highly unlikely for Prince William and Crown Princess Victoria to marry one another, she would have more likely married his cousin Peter. William most likely Victoria's sister Princess Madeleine. Sticking with the British-Swedish match making method. Nevertheless, neither William nor Victoria would be required to have their eligibility to inherit the thrones of their respective countries rescinded...that wouldn't be necessary unless it was deemed so as a result of their marriage, which most likely would occur.

Hence, in theory, the introduction of equal primogeniture, would unfairly place "spousal restrictions" on a heiress, such as Crown Princess Victoria, due to the heiress' status as the eldest daughter and eldest child, whilst none would be placed on a heir that is the eldest son and eldest child, such as Prince William. The heir's eligibility would not be questioned under equal primogeniture or male primogeniture no matter who he married.
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Old 11-03-2011, 01:27 PM
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I am unclear why you think equal primogeniture would place more restrictions on a female heiress as opposed to a male heir. Why would a female heir's eligibility be questioned with equal primogeniture?
Its doubtful in this day and age that any 2 independent nations would want to be linked by shared monarchs, but I supposed William could have decided he preferred the role of Prince Consort of Sweden to reigning King in the UK, just as easily as Victoria giving up Sweden to being consort in the UK.
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Old 11-03-2011, 02:50 PM
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I don't recall mentioning that under equal primogeniture a heiress apparent's eligibility to a throne could be questioned. Just so happens that I agree with you that in this era it is highly unlikely for two nations to be linked by shared monarchs or even seek to do so.
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Old 11-03-2011, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Of course Vicky would never have been allowed to marry the Crown Prince of Prussia if she had been heiress apparent to the British throne.
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Originally Posted by Sherlock221B View Post
Fascinating...an heir apparent, and I mean this in theory only, would be able to wed who ever he chooses, but a heiress apparent would be restricted to only "certain" individuals. Theoretically of course...
I recall reading somewhere (probably in "Victoria's Daughters") that Prince Albert raised the girls with the specific goal of sending them to marry princes on the continent so they could spread his ideals. He accomplished that with Vicky and Alice, but wasn't there to manage the marital prospects of Helena, Louise and Beatrice.

The fact was that boys superseded at the time, so the older girls matured in an environment where they were expected to marry foreign princes and leave the country of their birth. After Albert's death, Victoria insisted on having her younger daughters remain in Britain to support her. If Vicky had known from birth that she would stay in Britain to become queen, she probably would have married a second son who would have relocated. But we can only guess what might have happened if the law had been different then.
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  #96  
Old 11-04-2011, 01:26 AM
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So much would have changed had this happened sooner, it's fascinating to think about. Such different expectations of girls - and now, finally (but of a sudden), a very different system. It'll be very interesting to see what happens if the Cambridges have a girl first (I surely hope they do!)
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  #97  
Old 11-17-2011, 12:56 AM
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New rules of succession

I have a question about the new rules that are intended to treat men and women equally when it comes to the Royal succession. Does Anne, the Princess Royal now move up from being only tenth in line for the Crown, ahead of Andrew and Edward and their lines?
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  #98  
Old 11-17-2011, 12:59 AM
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I have a question about the new rules that are intended to treat men and women equally when it comes to the Royal succession. Does Anne, the Princess Royal now move up from being only tenth in line for the Crown, ahead of Andrew and Edward and their lines?
No- it's not retroactive. It only applies to babies born in the royal family from now on.
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  #99  
Old 11-17-2011, 01:17 AM
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My understanding the new rules apply to the decendents of the Prince of Wales not the current royals so the Duke of Cambridge and Prine Harry children will be the first to be affected. The official laws that have been on place will have to be updated for it to become official as well. I believe that the UK will start the law changes followed by New Zealand.
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  #100  
Old 11-17-2011, 10:15 AM
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No- it's not retroactive. It only applies to babies born in the royal family from now on.
That's what I've heard too. What I'd like to know is how would they handle IF for some unforesseable reason, all of the descendants of the PoW pass away and the Throne goes to a descendant of Prince Andrew or any of the other siblings of PoW? Would the old rules only apply to them?

Going to be interesting to see how they deal with that, if ever.
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