The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Reigning Houses > British Royals

Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #921  
Old 06-10-2013, 01:14 AM
Ish's Avatar
Ish Ish is online now
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 2,569
http://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/...becoming-Queen

I was waiting for this...
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #922  
Old 06-10-2013, 07:25 AM
Lumutqueen's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Carlton, York, United Kingdom
Posts: 17,542
Let's pray for a boy, lol.
__________________

__________________
We Will Remember Them.
Reply With Quote
  #923  
Old 06-10-2013, 07:28 AM
cepe's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 4,979
But it doesn't matter yet so long as it gets sorted before the 2nd child is born.

I've read the article - all bad news till you get towards the end of the piece:

"However, some experts said it might still go ahead because the Act received royal assent in Canada in March".
__________________

This precious stone set in the silver sea,......
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England,
Reply With Quote
  #924  
Old 06-10-2013, 09:56 AM
Jacknch's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Posts: 3,131
Ooooh....this gets my goat! Just when all is well and everyone is happy, there's always some meddling, cantakerous pair of know-it-alls ready to come along and put a spanner in the works! They're the types who come and sit right next to you on the bus talking loudly even when there are plenty of other seats!
__________________
JACK
Reply With Quote
  #925  
Old 06-10-2013, 10:07 AM
cepe's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 4,979
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacknch View Post
Ooooh....this gets my goat! Just when all is well and everyone is happy, there's always some meddling, cantakerous pair of know-it-alls ready to come along and put a spanner in the works! They're the types who come and sit right next to you on the bus talking loudly even when there are plenty of other seats!
oh yes! so true
__________________

This precious stone set in the silver sea,......
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England,
Reply With Quote
  #926  
Old 06-10-2013, 02:54 PM
Ish's Avatar
Ish Ish is online now
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 2,569
I'm not really sure if the act having received Royal Assent really means anything. Basically, to quote Wikipedia, "All laws of Canada, both provincial and federal, must conform to the Constitution and any laws inconsistent with the Constitution have no force or effect." This means that even though it's received Royal Assent this law can be considered invalid if it violates the Constitution of Canada - and it arguably does.

The current government is claiming that "The changes to the laws of succession do not require a constitutional amendment. The laws governing succession are UK law and are not part of Canada's constitution," however a 2003 Ontario Superior Court ruling states that the rules of succession are "by necessity incorporated into the Constitution of Canada." Thus the government's claiming that this isn't a constitutional amendment, but precedent states that it is, and if it is changing the constitution then the proper steps haven't been taken. Furthermore aspects of the law itself are in violation of the the constitution. I'm in favour of the changes (I'm even willing to ignore the fact that the discrimination against Catholics is in violation of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms), but I think that in making the change the government should adhere to Canadian law. In not doing so there's a precedent being set.

A better article is here: Changes to royal succession face legal fight in Quebec - The Globe and Mail
Reply With Quote
  #927  
Old 06-10-2013, 03:39 PM
BritishRoyalist's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Somewhere, United States
Posts: 848
I say let Quebec become there own country ( The majority Are French I think?) or give them back to the French. I know it the heaviest Republicanism province in Canada but Quebec (not everybody but most) disrespect to the Queen on Victoria Day sickened me.
__________________
Long Live the Queen!! The Real Queen of Hearts!
Reply With Quote
  #928  
Old 06-10-2013, 04:12 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: pinner, United Kingdom
Posts: 775
Quote:
I say let Quebec become there own country ( The majority Are French I think?) or give them back to the French. I know it the heaviest Republicanism province in Canada but Quebec (not everybody but most) disrespect to the Queen on Victoria Day sickened me.
Here,here ... excellent idea !
Reply With Quote
  #929  
Old 06-10-2013, 04:27 PM
Ish's Avatar
Ish Ish is online now
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 2,569
Quote:
Originally Posted by BritishRoyalist View Post
I say let Quebec become there own country ( The majority Are French I think?) or give them back to the French. I know it the heaviest Republicanism province in Canada but Quebec (not everybody but most) disrespect to the Queen on Victoria Day sickened me.
Okay...

1. The issue of Quebec separatism is different from the issue of republicanism in Quebec. The majority of people living in Quebec (according to Angus Reid polls) do not wish to separate from Canada, but do wish for more autonomy for Quebec.
2. People living in Quebec are Québécois or French-Canadian and do not desire to be given back to the French. Some wish for an independent nation, others for a more autonomous nation within Canada - the situation is similar to the situation in Wales or Scotland. That they largely speak a dialect of French does not make them a continued part of France.
3. What happened in Montreal on Victoria Day was a republican, pro-separation rally. This does not necessarily represent the views of the Québécois overall, just the views of one group. Furthermore it has nothing to do with the Succession to the Throne Act.
4. You can support the overall change to the succession without supporting the means to the change that the government has taken. I am a Canadian and I am a monarchist. However, I also believe that it is important that Canada maintain its autonomy and it's distinctly Canadian relationship with the crown, and I believe that in failing to adhere to the constitution the government has violated Canada's autonomy. I support the Succession to the Throne Act in theory, but I do not like how my government is disregarding the constitution and ignoring Canadian federalism in the way that it is choosing to pass this act.
Reply With Quote
  #930  
Old 06-10-2013, 04:28 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 4,163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
Let's pray for a boy, lol.
Prayers will not already help; sex of the baby is already fixed.
Reply With Quote
  #931  
Old 06-10-2013, 04:28 PM
Archduchess Zelia's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 2,315
I honestly can't blame William and Catherine if they hope for a boy. Seems like that would be much easier than a firstborn girl. It shouldn't be though, but it seems like it's some headache-inducing issues.
__________________
"I am Denmark's first female Prime Minister. But you know what? I won't be the last."
— Helle Thorning-Schmidt, Prime Minister of Denmark

Reply With Quote
  #932  
Old 06-10-2013, 04:52 PM
Ish's Avatar
Ish Ish is online now
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 2,569
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia View Post
I honestly can't blame William and Catherine if they hope for a boy. Seems like that would be much easier than a firstborn girl. It shouldn't be though, but it seems like it's some headache-inducing issues.
I think the headache inducing issues, at least succession-wise, come about because of the rush to change the laws. It's as if they expect the child to be a girl who is immediately displaced by a younger brother who is then immediately pushed into the throne.

There is no need to rush this act, despite the behaviour of some of the governments suggesting that it is necessary. It isn't necessary for 3 reasons:
1. In order for the Cambridge Baby to become monarch regardless of gender the Queen, Prince Charles, and Prince William all need to die. While the Queen might not be as young as she once was, barring disaster it's unlikely that the three of them are all going to die anytime soon.
2. If the Cambridge Baby is a girl then in order for her to be displaced a male Cambridge Baby would have to be born. Given as Cambridge 1 hasn't been born yet we're looking at at least another year before Cambridge 2 is born. Worrying about the succession issues here is putting the cart before the horse.
3. The law is designed to be retroactive and applies to any birth after 2011. Thus even is Cambridge 1 is a girl and Cambridge 2 is a boy and the law isn't passed until 2018, Cambridge 1 is still going to inherit (unless HM, Charles, and William all die before the law is passed, but after Cambridge 2 is born).
Reply With Quote
  #933  
Old 06-10-2013, 04:58 PM
cepe's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 4,979
Frankly, the people communicating this to us are either politicians or so-called royal journalists, none of whom seem to either understand the process, acknowledge the role of the realms, or understand the implications.

We predicted this would happen way back in December.
__________________

This precious stone set in the silver sea,......
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England,
Reply With Quote
  #934  
Old 06-10-2013, 06:15 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Atlanta, United States
Posts: 2,021
I think the reason it was rushed thru was Nick Clegg was pushing it and using baby c as a excuse. If they waited to see what baby c is and he is a boy, do they even bother with it.

I do find it funny that people are talking about fairness regarding the monarchy. That is what makes it a monarchy. It isn't a fair process. If you want to be king/queen conquer a country.

Do people sue Vatican City wanting to make non Catholics pope because it isn't fair that everyone can't be pope?
Reply With Quote
  #935  
Old 06-10-2013, 06:22 PM
AdmirerUS's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 3,254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
I think the reason it was rushed thru was Nick Clegg was pushing it and using baby c as a excuse. If they waited to see what baby c is and he is a boy, do they even bother with it.

I do find it funny that people are talking about fairness regarding the monarchy. That is what makes it a monarchy. It isn't a fair process. If you want to be king/queen conquer a country.

Do people sue Vatican City wanting to make non Catholics pope because it isn't fair that everyone can't be pope?
There is a no-longer-member who warned us of this. I say, let Canada's bits do as they please. The world will not stop on it's axis and maybe, that is a good thing. Imagine the future Queen stopping everywhere but... where she is not wanted. Oooh, wait - that is, in effect what happens today!

Even better - feminists. please go vacation in Queensland, most of Canada and avoid Quebec. Money talks.
Reply With Quote
  #936  
Old 06-10-2013, 06:41 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto (ON) & London (UK), Canada
Posts: 5,287
I don't see what the fuss is about. Each country has to go through its own necessary constitutional process. If a countrys government acted improperly or is challenged well there are courts to sort it all out. There is no great need to rush the process along, and certainly not a need to override constitutional requirements or boycotts of realms.
Hopefully Baby Cambridge will be a prince and then everyone can slow down, take a deep breath and act according to their respective laws and constitutions.
By the time William and Baby Cambridge come to the throne I think it is likely that most of the other realms will have become republics anyway.
Reply With Quote
  #937  
Old 06-10-2013, 06:53 PM
Roslyn's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tintenbar, Australia
Posts: 3,335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post
3. The law is designed to be retroactive and applies to any birth after 2011. Thus even is Cambridge 1 is a girl and Cambridge 2 is a boy and the law isn't passed until 2018, Cambridge 1 is still going to inherit (unless HM, Charles, and William all die before the law is passed, but after Cambridge 2 is born).
Good point.
Reply With Quote
  #938  
Old 06-10-2013, 07:04 PM
Ish's Avatar
Ish Ish is online now
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 2,569
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
I think the reason it was rushed thru was Nick Clegg was pushing it and using baby c as a excuse. If they waited to see what baby c is and he is a boy, do they even bother with it.

I do find it funny that people are talking about fairness regarding the monarchy. That is what makes it a monarchy. It isn't a fair process. If you want to be king/queen conquer a country.

Do people sue Vatican City wanting to make non Catholics pope because it isn't fair that everyone can't be pope?
As to the rushing it, that is basically the argument all around, just substitute on PM's name for another. The problem is that in some of the realms this rush is causing for constitutional review. It's one thing to pass a law, it's another thing to violate a realm's constitution in doing so.

As to the fairness, I'm assuming you mean in reference to the Catholic issue. This isn't about the fairness, it's about religious discrimination. The head of a church has to be a member of that church, that makes sense. And in the English sense it makes sense for the monarch to be CoE because the monarch is also the head of the church. However, only in England is there a relationship between monarch and church. In Canada we have a constitutional right to freedom of religion that isn't extended by law to our monarch. That's the problem being argued here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmirerUS View Post

There is a no-longer-member who warned us of this. I say, let Canada's bits do as they please. The world will not stop on it's axis and maybe, that is a good thing. Imagine the future Queen stopping everywhere but... where she is not wanted. Oooh, wait - that is, in effect what happens today!

Even better - feminists. please go vacation in Queensland, most of Canada and avoid Quebec. Money talks.
What does Australia or Quebec's issues with the change have to do with feminism?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
I don't see what the fuss is about. Each country has to go through its own necessary constitutional process. If a countrys government acted improperly or is challenged well there are courts to sort it all out. There is no great need to rush the process along, and certainly not a need to override constitutional requirements or boycotts of realms.
Hopefully Baby Cambridge will be a prince and then everyone can slow down, take a deep breath and act according to their respective laws and constitutions.
By the time William and Baby Cambridge come to the throne I think it is likely that most of the other realms will have become republics anyway.
I really agree with the first part of what you've said here. I won't debate the likelihood of other realms becoming republics. I think opinions on the matter fluctuate over time, with some realms having a stronger relationship with the monarchy than others.
Reply With Quote
  #939  
Old 06-10-2013, 07:15 PM
Roslyn's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tintenbar, Australia
Posts: 3,335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post
What does Australia or Quebec's issues with the change have to do with feminism?
I suspect the the poster's comment arises from the fact the changes are to make male and remove the discrimination in favour of males.

However I welcome the direction to holiday in Queensland. I live a 45 minute drive from the border and I need very little encouragement to nip up there for a bit of a holiday. Port Douglas is particularly nice at this time of year but even Brisbane will do.
Reply With Quote
  #940  
Old 06-10-2013, 07:39 PM
AdmirerUS's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 3,254
What does Australia or Quebec's issues with the change have to do with feminism?

1. If you were if a first born girl this would be obvious.

2. I understand that major issues with the change are with voicing Commonwealth choice in the matter and the "Catholic Issue."

That said, I find, often that when people vote with the power of their their purchasing as a persuasive element, it has an effect. A mitigating effect. Women should express the power in their purchasing dollars on this issue, IMHO. No more Quebec originated mail order Prescriptions for me!
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Change of the Act of Succession - 1979 Constitution Change GrandDuchess Royal House of Sweden 455 07-19-2015 08:05 AM
The Act of Settlement 1701 and the Line of Succession Elise,LadyofLancaster British Royals 942 03-09-2015 10:32 PM
Prince Frederik and Princess Mary's Official Visit to Australia: November 19-26, 2011 Princess Robijn Crown Prince Frederik, Crown Princess Mary and Family 295 08-28-2014 08:34 PM
Prince Frederik and Princess Mary's Official Visit to Brazil: September 16-21, 2012 ricarda Crown Prince Frederik, Crown Princess Mary and Family 81 10-05-2012 04:15 PM
The Third Succession Act (Henry VIII, 1543) Daz_Voz British Royal History 4 07-25-2012 03:17 PM




Popular Tags
australia best outfit camilla chris o'neill crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit crown princess victoria current events death duchess of cornwall fashion fashion poll felipe vi france funeral general news germany hereditary grand duchess stéphanie king felipe king felipe vi king harald king philippe king willem-alexander letizia maxima nobility official visit picture of the week president gauck president hollande prince carl philip prince charles prince daniel prince frederik prince of wales princess alexia (2005 -) princess catharina-amalia princess charlene princess leonore princess madeleine princess mary princess mary daytime fashion princess mette-marit queen fabiola queen letizia queen letizia daytime fashion queen letizia fashion queen letizia style queen mathilde queen maxima queen maxima daytime fashion queen maxima fashion queen maxima style queen rania queen silvia queen sonja royal fashion sayn sofia hellqvist spanish royals state visit sweden the hague tiara united states of america victoria wedding willem-alexander


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002-2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:20 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2015
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]