Succession to the Crown Act 2013, Part 1: 2011 - Sep 2022

[Alison H]

Until this year, when the rules were changed, technically there couldn't be an Heiress Apparent as the Heiress Presumptive would have been displaced had her parents had a son, or had her mother died and her father remarried and had a son with his second wife. Princess Mary, the future Mary I, had a court at Ludlow, where Princes of Wales were usually based, for a while, but I don't think she was "officially" Princess of Wales.

I wish they'd sort something out about Camilla. As far as I'm concerned, as soon as Charles becomes King his wife becomes Queen, but there's been all this vague talk about her being "Princess Consort" and so no-one really knows what's going to happen. Hopefully the question won't arise for many years yet, but the Queen's nearly 87 and the situation's going to arise at some point.

 

[Dman]

I know, we have to face reality. Long May She Reign but Her Majesty is getting older and the Camilla topic will come up again at some point. I think the royal family is even dredding that moment, on top of everything they will be dealing with.

 

[Lumutqueen]

If Charles passed away suddenly, I guess William would become the direct heir. Charles eats organic food and may he also live long, and Camilla too.

No guessing, when Charles dies William is next in line.
When it's your time it's your time, organic food or not.

 

[Artemisia]

From my understanding the Queen did not have to give the heir to the throne title to Charles it was her choice. so he must have earned it. my point is that do not say lets make all the same and then say to make the spouse to the monarch special lets make them a Majesty. if you are going to let them be a prince or princess or a Duke or Duchess like Philip then let them be a HRH and only the Monarch is the Majesty.

Prince Charles became Heir Apparent to the British Throne the moment the Queen ascended to the Throne. No one, not even the Monarch, has the say in this matter; it is regulated by laws and traditions. Prince Charles was automatically The Duke of Cornwall (a title reserved for the heir apparent only) from 1952. What the Queen did was create him The Prince of Wales as well - another of the titles of the Heir Apparent which is not, however, automatic.

Until this year, when the rules were changed, technically there couldn't be an Heiress Apparent as the Heiress Presumptive would have been displaced had her parents had a son, or had her mother died and her father remarried and had a son with his second wife. Princess Mary, the future Mary I, had a court at Ludlow, where Princes of Wales were usually based, for a while, but I don't think she was "officially" Princess of Wales.

Actually, there could be an Heiress Apparent even before the changes.
For instance, if Charles and Diana had only one daughter and Charles predeceased his mother, that girl would have been Heiress Apparent to the Throne because no subsequent births could have displaced her in the Line of Succession.

 

[branchg]

I know, we have to face reality. Long May She Reign but Her Majesty is getting older and the Camilla topic will come up again at some point. I think the royal family is even dredding that moment, on top of everything they will be dealing with.

I doubt anyone is too worried about what Camilla will be. She is Queen automatically the minute Charles is The Sovereign and I cannot imagine any Prime Minister agreeing to introduce legislation in Parliament to change that.

HM could easily live another 15 years if her health holds. It will be a short reign for Charles and Camilla, assuming one or both hasn't died yet.

 

[Furienna]

Yeah, Camilla has never been as popular as Diana was, and I think that has a lot to do with it.

 

[Dman]

Canadians OK with a first-born royal daughter as their monarch, poll finds:
Canadians OK with a first-born royal daughter as their monarch, poll finds | Toronto Star

 

[padams2359]

As we are all keenly aware, the palace takes serious polls very seriously, and always. Remember, once Her Majesty move to Windsor permanently, or SGC to be exact, The Palace has about a year to get a feeling on where the Commonwealth stands on the matter of Camila being crowned as Queen Consort.

 

[Iluvbertie]

What has it to do with the Commonwealth? Most of the countries of the Commonwealth are republics and those that have The Queen as Queen mostly don't have any titles for the rest of the family and only give them the courtesy of their British titles e.g. Philip is no a Prince of Australia even though he is married to the Queen of Australia. Camilla will be the same - just the wife of the King of Australia and will be accorded whatever title she has in the UK (if that body even exists by then).

 

[Dman]

Changes to succession laws will strengthen monarchy, Lords told:
Changes to succession laws will strengthen monarchy, Lords told - Telegraph

 

[wbenson]

Several posts on styles and titles have been moved to the Questions About British Styles and Titles thread.

 

[Lumutqueen]

Just looking at the Succession the the Crown Act wiki page and;

The first reading of the bill in the House of Lords took place on 29 January 2013. The bill passed second reading on 14 February 2013 and was reviewed by committee on 28 February 2013. The report stage was on 13 March 2013, and the third reading is scheduled for 22 April.

I'm intrigued that this didn't make a fuss though;

On 21 January 2013, the House of Lords Constitution Committee published a report opposing the Government's plan to fast-track the bill, citing the legislation's "constitutional significance" and "possible unintended consequences."

 

[NGalitzine]

Royal baby bill nears final vote despite U.K. changes - Politics - CBC News

Canada appears set to become the first Commonwealth nation to pass legislation changing the laws of succession, although some Liberal Senators are questioning the rush since it has not been passed in the UK and that there are Uk amendments to the original act. I think the Liberal Senators are correct, there is no good reason to pass a Bill that may require amendments almost as soon as it is passed. It seems sloppy but the PM apparently does not want his own parliamentary agenda slowed down by debate on this bill.

 

[Ish]

Canada appears set to become the first Commonwealth nation to pass legislation changing the laws of succession...

There have been a fair number of critiques to the way the PM is handling it here. In rushing it, and not discussing things with the provinces he's risking a constitutional crisis.

 

[NGalitzine]

I know Quebec thought they should have been consulted but haven't read about any other province being too upset. I don't think there is a risk of constitutional crisis I just think it is silly to rush through an act of Parliament that has yet to be passed in its final form by Westminster and that Ottawa may have to go back and amend in the fall session. There is no good reason to rush it at all. Even if Baby Cambridge is a girl that doesn't present a problem unless Baby Cambridge 2 is a boy and that event is likely 2 or 3 yrs away if it happens at all.

 

[Dman]

The Succession To The Crown Bill is set to become law sometime next week after it finishes its final stage in Parliament and goes off for Royal Assent:
Succession To The Crown Bill Set To Become Law Next Week

 

[Iluvbertie]

It doesn't take effect though until passed in the other realms. Canada and NZ, I believe has started the process but none of the others.

 

[Roslyn]

It doesn't take effect though until passed in the other realms. Canada and NZ, I believe has started the process but none of the others.

Section 5 of the latest version I can find provides:
"Commencement and short title
(1) This section comes into force on the day on which this Act is passed.
(2) The other provisions of this Act come into force on such day and at such time as the Lord President of the Council may by order made by statutory instrument appoint.
(3) Different days and times may be appointed for different purposes.
(4) This Act may be cited as the Succession to the Crown Act 2013."

I find sub-section 4 interesting and wonder what they have in mind.

Queensland has started the ball rolling here by introducing its Succession to the Crown Bill 2013, on the basis it considers each State has to pass its own legislation here. As far as I know, no other State has done anything yet.

 

[royalistbert]

It doesn't take effect though until passed in the other realms. Canada and NZ, I believe has started the process but none of the others.

It does take effect in UK.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Qld does believe that each of the states have to do so but the federal government disagrees I believe. I think that they could easily be waiting until after the baby is born and if it is a boy simply put the whole thing on the backburner. As far as I am aware the other states don't think they have to also pass the legislation - which could lead to a High Court ruling having to be made on the constitutionality of Qld's decision (which I have read is on the cards after Qld has passed - that the federal government will be using this issue to define State's rights - not the issue itself but the fact that Qld sees itself as a separate Crown to the federal government).

The federal parliament goes into its winter recess on 27th June and has a 6 week break - taking it to mid-August and will return basically to dissolve the parliament in the lead up to the September election.

So if not passed in the next 9 weeks or so it will be left to the new government to even introduce the legislation.

It does take effect in UK.

No it doesn't as that could see different children being heirs to different crowns at the same time.

If William and Kate have a girl first and then a boy and the legislation has only past in the UK but no where else and everyone dies the daughter would be Queen of the UK and the boy King of the other realms.

It was agreed at the time that it wouldn't take effect until it had passed all the other realms for that very reason.
.

 

[BrazilianEmpire]

So if not passed in the next 9 weeks or so it will be left to the new government to even introduce the legislation.

What are the chances of the law being passed in the next nine weeks?

 

[padams2359]

When they want something done, you would be surprised how quickly things can get done.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Nil

The next nine weeks will be taken up with legislation on the books and the new budget.

This legislation will pass in Australia - just not as fast as elsewhere and if the federal government do argue the constitutionality of the Qld legislation before passing it at federal level it could be years not weeks or months.

The issue itself isn't a big deal here but rather the issue of Qld deciding that it is a separate Crown in its own right - which also raises the issue of a republic - does that also have to be voted on in each state or could we end up with a republic at federal level but monarchies as state level - or even vice versa - a state holds a referendum on being a republic first (a friend of my late father's who specialies in constitutional law argued back in 1999 exactly that. That of course is only one person's opinion and others disagree but...

 

[padams2359]

The Queen wants it, she is very popular now, as is D&D of Cam. It does not affect anyone but the baby, and that's only if it is a girl. QE became queen after a few "What Ifs" actually took place. She wants to know that this will not happen again. The Cornwall & Cambridge issues will be fixed as it becomes necessary. Right now the Queen wants to know that a girl will not be pasted over.

 

[yvr girl]

It only really becomes an issue when the Cambridges have a second baby. The first baby will be next in line under current legislation even if it is a girl. If a daughter gets a baby brother that's when it becomes a problem.

 

[Iluvbertie]

She can want all she likes but as we live in democracies she has to wait until each of the different democracies go through their respective processes.

She can't order us to do anything - not can Britain anymore.

Each realm is totally separate and is in personal union with the monarch and that is all.

British laws don't apply in any of the other realms.

 

[yvr girl]

The Queen wants it, she is very popular now, as is D&D of Cam. It does not affect anyone but the baby, and that's only if it is a girl. QE became queen after a few "What Ifs" actually took place. She wants to know that this will not happen again. The Cornwall & Cambridge issues will be fixed as it becomes necessary. Right now the Queen wants to know that a girl will not be pasted over.

I'm not sure which "What Ifs" you are referring to. Before the abdication, it was never expected that Princess Elizabeth would become Queen. If George VI had a son, he would have displaced both Elizabeth and Margaret but I don't think anyone expected this. The Queen Mother didn't have easy pregnancies.

 

[Ish]

I think those are exactly the what ifs. What if David abdicates and Bertie takes the throne, what if Bertie becomes king and never has a son.

 

[wbenson]

It only really becomes an issue when the Cambridges have a second baby. The first baby will be next in line under current legislation even if it is a girl. If a daughter gets a baby brother that's when it becomes a problem.

Even then, there are still two heirs ahead of that baby, so there's still time. The change is retroactive to October 2011 no matter what happens between the agreement and its coming into force.

 

[Iluvbertie]

The only problem would be if the Cambridges go girl and then boy and The Queen, Charles and William all die before the legislation passes in all realms as regardless of when the laws are backdated to, if they aren't passed they don't come into effect and once the boy, in that scenario, is King he can't be made to give it up for his older sister.