The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Reigning Houses > British Royals

Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #321  
Old 07-25-2013, 05:22 PM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 8,375
The idea of a girl being able to inherit if William was a girl and then a boy was certainly mentioned in the press - I have the papers here - and it was stated then that it would happen - and would have actually been easier 30 years ago as a lot of the realms have passed new laws since then removing any power for the UK government to make laws for them on any issue.

The matter wasn't raised when The Queen was pregnant with Charles as no one would have thought that it was right - remember Denmark at that time still didn't allow a female to inherit at all - that was still a few years away from being changed to allow the present Queen to succeed her father.

As for a different regent - not on - as there would be a need for a new Regency Act to be passed in each realm allowing them to appoint their own Regent - to do what exactly - sign a couple of documents to appoint GGs or State/Provincial governors who do the actual work. So we would need 16 different realms to agree to allow each other to appoint different Regents - not going to happen.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #322  
Old 07-25-2013, 05:40 PM
Ish's Avatar
Ish Ish is offline
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 2,041
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
The idea of a girl being able to inherit if William was a girl and then a boy was certainly mentioned in the press - I have the papers here - and it was stated then that it would happen - and would have actually been easier 30 years ago as a lot of the realms have passed new laws since then removing any power for the UK government to make laws for them on any issue.
You raise a really good point here.

Part of the problem in changing the law in Canada is the constitution (the other part, in my opinion, is the government). The constitution wasn't brought into effect in Canada until 2 months before William was born. It would have been easy then for Canada at least to change the succession.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #323  
Old 07-25-2013, 06:04 PM
PrincessKaimi's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Hilo, Malibu, United States
Posts: 1,325
Isn't Canada ultimately going to follow what Great Britain does? And if not, would they choose an issue like secession to be different?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #324  
Old 07-25-2013, 06:09 PM
Ish's Avatar
Ish Ish is offline
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 2,041
Canada is not a mindless follower of Great Britain.

I believe the intention in general is for all of the Commonwealth to pass the changes, as established by the commitment made to do so at a Commonwealth meeting a couple years ago.

The problem in Canada is threefold: on the one hand the way the government has tried to pass the laws is in violation of Canada's independence, on the other hand the way the government is doing so is in violation of the Canadian Constitution, and finally the laws themselves, namely the religious requirements, are in violation of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #325  
Old 07-25-2013, 09:17 PM
PrincessKaimi's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Hilo, Malibu, United States
Posts: 1,325
I didn't say mindless. Can't Canada be mindful and still follow the general rules of the U.K. Is there any movement in Canada to name a different monarch/regent?

Of course the intention is for all the Commonwealth to pass the changes - but if Canada follows England on this, that doesn't make it mindless (not to mention that nations don't have minds in the first place).

By "the government" - do you mean the parliament of...Great Britain? I'm confused. If Canadians view the parliament in the U.K. as "the government" then what is the status of their own laws and how did they become so different from those of "the government."

Is it like a states rights thing? Because to me, "the government" implies the laws themselves, so I'm confused how "the government" can be different from "the laws."

Just trying to understand Canada.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #326  
Old 07-26-2013, 01:54 AM
Ish's Avatar
Ish Ish is offline
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 2,041
Ps 3721
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrincessKaimi View Post
I didn't say mindless. Can't Canada be mindful and still follow the general rules of the U.K. Is there any movement in Canada to name a different monarch/regent? Of course the intention is for all the Commonwealth to pass the changes - but if Canada follows England on this, that doesn't make it mindless (not to mention that nations don't have minds in the first place). By "the government" - do you mean the parliament of...Great Britain? I'm confused. If Canadians view the parliament in the U.K. as "the government" then what is the status of their own laws and how did they become so different from those of "the government." Is it like a states rights thing? Because to me, "the government" implies the laws themselves, so I'm confused how "the government" can be different from "the laws." Just trying to understand Canada.
Government means two things in Canada. On one hand it means the set of institutions that govern the whole country, similar to the American usage, while on the other hand it refers specifically to the current political leadership, similar to the British usage. In that sense it refers to the party in Parliament that holds the most number of seats; the party that holds the second most number is the loyal opposition.

The government in power introduced a bill that doesn't change the succession to the throne of Canada so much as it accepts the change of succession to the throne of the United Kingdom. Left unchallenged this means that either the line of succession to the throne of Canada hasn't been changed, which calls into question whether any of the other successions have been changed either, or that Canada is not an independent state and the UK can pass laws for us.

Furthermore, the relationship between crown and Canada is a constitutional issue, so to change the succession is to change the constitution. In order to change the constitution the provinces have to be consulted. If the succession to the throne of Canada has in fact been changed then the constitution has been violated, as have the rights of the provinces, because they were not consulted in the process. This is a basis for the challenge to the changes that's currently occurring.

Finally, also a part of the challenge to the changes, in Canada we have a thing called the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. It's the first part of our constitution and according to it
Quote:
Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: (a) freedom of conscience and religion; (b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication; (c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and (d) freedom of association.
This means that in Canada we have a fundamental freedom of religion that we do not extend to our monarch who, by law is not allowed to be a Catholic. That means that if we accept the changes as lawful and valid in Canada then they themselves - regardless of how they came to be - violate one of the fundamental freedoms that our society claims to be based on.

So basically, the change in succession violates our independence, our constitution, and our Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #327  
Old 07-26-2013, 02:11 AM
wbenson's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: -, United States
Posts: 2,234
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralmcg View Post
The Governors General of the other realms are still appointed by the monarch.
At least in Canada, that's the convention but I don't think it's required. The Governor General has the power to exercise "all powers and authorities lawfully belonging to [the monarch] in respect of Canada" and to "use Our Great Seal of Canada for sealing all things whatsoever that may be passed under Our Great Seal of Canada."

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrincessKaimi View Post
Isn't Canada ultimately going to follow what Great Britain does? And if not, would they choose an issue like secession to be different?
It's not an issue of agreeing with the change. Nobody is arguing that boys should come before girls. All 16 governments agreed in principle with the change and there are no politicians arguing that things should stay the way they are. What is going on in Canada is an argument about the powers of the federal parliament and the provinces. Canada has a complicated constitution that imposes onerous requirements on certain types of amendment, and one of the things that's hardest to change is any part of the Constitution relating to "the office of the Queen."

However, it's not universally accepted that it requires a constitutional amendment. The constitution itself lists the laws that are a part of the constitution, and the Act of Settlement is not on that list. But some believe that if it's not explicitly a part of the constitution, it must be subject to the constitution, and that discriminating against Roman Catholics violates the constitution.

The current administration of Canada crafted a very narrow argument as to how it wasn't a part of the constitution or a law subject to the constitution in order to try to squeeze through these concerns and not waste time. The province of Quebec recently joined a lawsuit that argues that it has to be one or the other and is void either way you look at it.
__________________
TRF rules and FAQ
Reply With Quote
  #328  
Old 07-26-2013, 05:04 PM
Ish's Avatar
Ish Ish is offline
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 2,041
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homme View Post
PM Harper has a constitutional mess on his hands. I think Canada will drop the entire issue like a hot potato now. To much heat from the monarchists and there are many of them in Canada.
It's not about dropping the issue - as a Canadian monarchist I don't think that's what should be done. They more need to go "we went about this wrong, let's restart and do it right."

Even in doing that, though, they're going to come into problems with the religious issues (which, I'm sure will be a problem elsewhere, Canada can't be the only Commonwealth realm that had a guarantee of religious freedom), that they need to find some way of approaching.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #329  
Old 08-12-2013, 06:18 PM
An Ard Ri's Avatar
Super Moderator
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Westmeath, Ireland
Posts: 8,727
From the Daily Express

Buckingham Palace lists Roman Catholics in line of succession

Buckingham Palace lists Catholics in line of succession | Royal | News | Daily Express
__________________
4th of August 1900 : Birth of H.M.Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother
Reply With Quote
  #330  
Old 08-12-2013, 06:29 PM
Ish's Avatar
Ish Ish is offline
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 2,041
Quote:
Originally Posted by An Ard Ri View Post
From the Daily Express

Buckingham Palace lists Roman Catholics in line of succession

Buckingham Palace lists Catholics in line of succession | Royal | News | Daily Express
Children who are being raised Catholic aren't excluded until they are confirmed in the Catholic Church.

Both Lord Downpatrick and Lady Marina-Charlotte Windsor were in the succession until they were confirmed. Their younger sister, Lady Amalia, is still in line as she hasn't been confirmed yet.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Change of the Act of Succession - 1979 Constitution Change GrandDuchess Royal House of Sweden 276 06-30-2014 12:52 AM
The Act of Settlement 1701 and the Line of Succession Elise,LadyofLancaster British Royals 926 04-15-2014 11:41 PM
Frederik and Mary's Official/Business Visit to Australia; November 19-26, 2011 Princess Robijn Crown Prince Frederik and Crown Princess Mary and Family 294 12-31-2013 03:32 AM
Prince Frederik and Princess Mary Official Visit to Brazil; September 16-21, 2012 ricarda Crown Prince Frederik and Crown Princess Mary and Family 81 10-05-2012 04:15 PM
The Third Succession Act (Henry VIII, 1543) Daz_Voz British Royals 4 07-25-2012 03:17 PM




Additional Links
Popular Tags
birth bourbon-parma charlene chris o'neill crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess letizia crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit crown princess victoria current events diana engagement fashion grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri hohenzollern infanta sofia jordan king abdullah ii king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander luxembourg olympic games ottoman picture of the month pom pregnancy president komorowski prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince constantijn prince felipe prince floris prince joachim prince pieter-christiaan princess princess alexia (2005 -) princess anita princess ariane princess beatrix princess catharina-amalia princess charlene princess laurentien princess letizia princess mabel princess madeleine princess margriet princess marie princess mary princess of asturias queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen rania queen silvia queen sofia royal russia spain state visit wedding william winter olympics 2014


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

RV & Travel Trailer Communities

Our RV & Travel Trailer sites encompasses virtually all types of Recreational Vehicles, from brand-specific to general RV communities.

» More about our RV Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002-2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:58 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]