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  #321  
Old 07-25-2013, 05:22 PM
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The idea of a girl being able to inherit if William was a girl and then a boy was certainly mentioned in the press - I have the papers here - and it was stated then that it would happen - and would have actually been easier 30 years ago as a lot of the realms have passed new laws since then removing any power for the UK government to make laws for them on any issue.

The matter wasn't raised when The Queen was pregnant with Charles as no one would have thought that it was right - remember Denmark at that time still didn't allow a female to inherit at all - that was still a few years away from being changed to allow the present Queen to succeed her father.

As for a different regent - not on - as there would be a need for a new Regency Act to be passed in each realm allowing them to appoint their own Regent - to do what exactly - sign a couple of documents to appoint GGs or State/Provincial governors who do the actual work. So we would need 16 different realms to agree to allow each other to appoint different Regents - not going to happen.
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  #322  
Old 07-25-2013, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
The idea of a girl being able to inherit if William was a girl and then a boy was certainly mentioned in the press - I have the papers here - and it was stated then that it would happen - and would have actually been easier 30 years ago as a lot of the realms have passed new laws since then removing any power for the UK government to make laws for them on any issue.
You raise a really good point here.

Part of the problem in changing the law in Canada is the constitution (the other part, in my opinion, is the government). The constitution wasn't brought into effect in Canada until 2 months before William was born. It would have been easy then for Canada at least to change the succession.
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  #323  
Old 07-25-2013, 06:04 PM
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Isn't Canada ultimately going to follow what Great Britain does? And if not, would they choose an issue like secession to be different?
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  #324  
Old 07-25-2013, 06:09 PM
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Canada is not a mindless follower of Great Britain.

I believe the intention in general is for all of the Commonwealth to pass the changes, as established by the commitment made to do so at a Commonwealth meeting a couple years ago.

The problem in Canada is threefold: on the one hand the way the government has tried to pass the laws is in violation of Canada's independence, on the other hand the way the government is doing so is in violation of the Canadian Constitution, and finally the laws themselves, namely the religious requirements, are in violation of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
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  #325  
Old 07-25-2013, 09:17 PM
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I didn't say mindless. Can't Canada be mindful and still follow the general rules of the U.K. Is there any movement in Canada to name a different monarch/regent?

Of course the intention is for all the Commonwealth to pass the changes - but if Canada follows England on this, that doesn't make it mindless (not to mention that nations don't have minds in the first place).

By "the government" - do you mean the parliament of...Great Britain? I'm confused. If Canadians view the parliament in the U.K. as "the government" then what is the status of their own laws and how did they become so different from those of "the government."

Is it like a states rights thing? Because to me, "the government" implies the laws themselves, so I'm confused how "the government" can be different from "the laws."

Just trying to understand Canada.
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  #326  
Old 07-26-2013, 01:54 AM
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Originally Posted by PrincessKaimi View Post
I didn't say mindless. Can't Canada be mindful and still follow the general rules of the U.K. Is there any movement in Canada to name a different monarch/regent? Of course the intention is for all the Commonwealth to pass the changes - but if Canada follows England on this, that doesn't make it mindless (not to mention that nations don't have minds in the first place). By "the government" - do you mean the parliament of...Great Britain? I'm confused. If Canadians view the parliament in the U.K. as "the government" then what is the status of their own laws and how did they become so different from those of "the government." Is it like a states rights thing? Because to me, "the government" implies the laws themselves, so I'm confused how "the government" can be different from "the laws." Just trying to understand Canada.
Government means two things in Canada. On one hand it means the set of institutions that govern the whole country, similar to the American usage, while on the other hand it refers specifically to the current political leadership, similar to the British usage. In that sense it refers to the party in Parliament that holds the most number of seats; the party that holds the second most number is the loyal opposition.

The government in power introduced a bill that doesn't change the succession to the throne of Canada so much as it accepts the change of succession to the throne of the United Kingdom. Left unchallenged this means that either the line of succession to the throne of Canada hasn't been changed, which calls into question whether any of the other successions have been changed either, or that Canada is not an independent state and the UK can pass laws for us.

Furthermore, the relationship between crown and Canada is a constitutional issue, so to change the succession is to change the constitution. In order to change the constitution the provinces have to be consulted. If the succession to the throne of Canada has in fact been changed then the constitution has been violated, as have the rights of the provinces, because they were not consulted in the process. This is a basis for the challenge to the changes that's currently occurring.

Finally, also a part of the challenge to the changes, in Canada we have a thing called the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. It's the first part of our constitution and according to it
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Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: (a) freedom of conscience and religion; (b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication; (c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and (d) freedom of association.
This means that in Canada we have a fundamental freedom of religion that we do not extend to our monarch who, by law is not allowed to be a Catholic. That means that if we accept the changes as lawful and valid in Canada then they themselves - regardless of how they came to be - violate one of the fundamental freedoms that our society claims to be based on.

So basically, the change in succession violates our independence, our constitution, and our Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
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  #327  
Old 07-26-2013, 02:11 AM
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Originally Posted by ralmcg View Post
The Governors General of the other realms are still appointed by the monarch.
At least in Canada, that's the convention but I don't think it's required. The Governor General has the power to exercise "all powers and authorities lawfully belonging to [the monarch] in respect of Canada" and to "use Our Great Seal of Canada for sealing all things whatsoever that may be passed under Our Great Seal of Canada."

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Isn't Canada ultimately going to follow what Great Britain does? And if not, would they choose an issue like secession to be different?
It's not an issue of agreeing with the change. Nobody is arguing that boys should come before girls. All 16 governments agreed in principle with the change and there are no politicians arguing that things should stay the way they are. What is going on in Canada is an argument about the powers of the federal parliament and the provinces. Canada has a complicated constitution that imposes onerous requirements on certain types of amendment, and one of the things that's hardest to change is any part of the Constitution relating to "the office of the Queen."

However, it's not universally accepted that it requires a constitutional amendment. The constitution itself lists the laws that are a part of the constitution, and the Act of Settlement is not on that list. But some believe that if it's not explicitly a part of the constitution, it must be subject to the constitution, and that discriminating against Roman Catholics violates the constitution.

The current administration of Canada crafted a very narrow argument as to how it wasn't a part of the constitution or a law subject to the constitution in order to try to squeeze through these concerns and not waste time. The province of Quebec recently joined a lawsuit that argues that it has to be one or the other and is void either way you look at it.
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  #328  
Old 07-26-2013, 05:04 PM
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PM Harper has a constitutional mess on his hands. I think Canada will drop the entire issue like a hot potato now. To much heat from the monarchists and there are many of them in Canada.
It's not about dropping the issue - as a Canadian monarchist I don't think that's what should be done. They more need to go "we went about this wrong, let's restart and do it right."

Even in doing that, though, they're going to come into problems with the religious issues (which, I'm sure will be a problem elsewhere, Canada can't be the only Commonwealth realm that had a guarantee of religious freedom), that they need to find some way of approaching.
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  #329  
Old 08-12-2013, 06:18 PM
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From the Daily Express

Buckingham Palace lists Roman Catholics in line of succession

Buckingham Palace lists Catholics in line of succession | Royal | News | Daily Express
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  #330  
Old 08-12-2013, 06:29 PM
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From the Daily Express

Buckingham Palace lists Roman Catholics in line of succession

Buckingham Palace lists Catholics in line of succession | Royal | News | Daily Express
Children who are being raised Catholic aren't excluded until they are confirmed in the Catholic Church.

Both Lord Downpatrick and Lady Marina-Charlotte Windsor were in the succession until they were confirmed. Their younger sister, Lady Amalia, is still in line as she hasn't been confirmed yet.
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