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  #281  
Old 11-01-2012, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
I just hope William and Catherine have 2 boys and no daughters and the whole issue dies on the political cutting room table.
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  #282  
Old 11-01-2012, 04:31 PM
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The problem for me here is the use of the phrase " to reflect modern Britain". It's a useless phrase and to me is meaningless in the sense that "modern" is continual and perpetual. Queen Victoria reigned "in modern Britain" and so did King Henry VIII! What gives us the right to put a monopoly on the word "modern"??
I would rather the change to equal primogeniture were based solely on the fact that:

"the system of primogeniture requires the eldest child of a family to inherit something and as such that child should be allowed to do so whether they be male or female"

I would go further and say that I think it should be entirely a matter for the Royal Family to decide who will inherit the title.....not necessarily an in-house vote, but in the sense that, for instance, William and Catherine should be allowed to declare their eldest child as being their heir whether male or female.

It is to me rather perverse that politicians wish to change traditional institutions when they are themselves are a traditional, unchanging and rather old-fashioned institution.......they always have been and regretably always will be a feckless, unreliable bunch of good-for-nothings, useless at running a bath let alone a country and completely out of touch with what modern British folk want!
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  #283  
Old 11-01-2012, 04:46 PM
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Jacknch: That's a nicely reasoned post. It's pleasing to read good argument, well-articulated, every now and then. Thanks. Then again, I doubt that much common sense could ever make it through the political change process.
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  #284  
Old 11-01-2012, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia View Post
Yes, I do think it is old-fashioned to believe that women aren't "fit enough" to run a country especially when you look at a monarch like HM.
No one has said that women aren't fit enough to run a country, or that QEII hasn't been a good monarch. But a lot of people do feel uneasy about old traditions changing, especially when it comes to monarchy, because that's all about traditions anyway.
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  #285  
Old 11-01-2012, 05:49 PM
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IMO the succession needs to be changed because the British monarchy is part of the British government, and there is no room, (or should be no room), for officially sanctioned sexism in the government of a country which claims to place paramount importance on the equality of all its citizens.

Just because the monarchy is old and inherently unfair doesn't mean it's untouchable. And just because something can't be made entirely fair doesn't mean it's not worth the effort to make it more fair. If the roof in my 100 year old house starts to leak in four places and I can only fix three of the leaks, then I'm going to go ahead and fix those three, not sit around and wait for the whole thing to tumble down on top of me. The British monarchy has been fixing various leaks in the royal roof for hundreds of years now and it has survived because of, not in spite of, this willingness to bring itself more in line with British society as a whole.
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  #286  
Old 11-01-2012, 05:53 PM
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Well Prince Harry should marry a gay visible minority because that would bring the monarchy more in line with British society as a whole. Actually they should just live together because marriage in Britain is at an all time low.

Welcome to modern Britain...
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  #287  
Old 11-01-2012, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Duke-of-Earl View Post
Well Prince Harry should marry a gay visible minority because that would bring the monarchy more in line with British society as a whole. Actually they should just live together because marriage in Britain is at an all time low.

Welcome to modern Britain...
Reminds me of the episode of Yes Minister when Jim Hacker was trying to get more women in the top echelons of the Civil Service. All the top secrataries (Humpries rank) were sitting round a table discussing it when one said that you couldn't het a more diverse bunch then them, a real cross section of British Society. They were all white men in their 50's and 60's with upper class accents and an Oxford educatuion.
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  #288  
Old 11-01-2012, 06:28 PM
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Quite a lot of countries in Europe already have the act...

Does anyone know if any other countries outside of Europe have the act, also?
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  #289  
Old 11-01-2012, 06:45 PM
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Well, it has been said amongst royal historians that women have been more successful on the British throne than the men.

I think it just all down to equality. Since this change is now in affect for the desendents of The Prince of Wales, if the Cambridges produce a daughter first, she will then be the future Queen. If they produce a son first, he will become the future King. It's all pretty simple and this change have the backing of the main woman that has reigned for nearly 61 years, Elizabeth The Second.

This change is now already in affect. Now it's down to William & Catherine from here. To me it's not just about a 'modern world' but I think it's great to allow women to have an equal shot. Imagine how happy William & Catherine probably are now, their potential baby girl can be Queen someday. It's a beautiful thing, I think.
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  #290  
Old 11-01-2012, 06:57 PM
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William and Catherine seem like pretty traditional people, how do we know they support this change. As someone commented earlier, why not just let the Cambridges decide who they want as heir
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  #291  
Old 11-01-2012, 07:30 PM
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I just think if The Queen is showing her support of this change, then William & Catherine most likely supporting this change as well. I think right now though, the Cambridges are just focusing on producing the children at this point.
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  #292  
Old 11-01-2012, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Well, it has been said amongst royal historians that women have been more successful on the British throne than the men.

I think it just all down to equality. Since this change is now in affect for the desendents of The Prince of Wales, if the Cambridges produce a daughter first, she will then be the future Queen. If they produce a son first, he will become the future King. It's all pretty simple and this change have the backing of the main woman that has reigned for nearly 61 years, Elizabeth The Second.

This change is now already in affect. Now it's down to William & Catherine from here. To me it's not just about a 'modern world' but I think it's great to allow women to have an equal shot. Imagine how happy William & Catherine probably are now, their potential baby girl can be Queen someday. It's a beautiful thing, I think.

When did the law pass the various governments of the 16 realms? Until all 16 realms have agreed to the change then this isn't in effect.
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  #293  
Old 11-01-2012, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
When did the law pass the various governments of the 16 realms? Until all 16 realms have agreed to the change then this isn't in effect.
Correct. It hasn't passed anywhere yet. Has the commission, headed by NZ, even finished its discussions yet? Has anyone seen a final proposal or draft legislation? I don't think this is exactly being fast tracked by anyone. Governments have more pressing issues to deal with at the moment. The changes likely will happen someday but they could equally well linger in legislative limbo for quite some time before all the governments act on it.
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  #294  
Old 11-02-2012, 12:33 AM
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MP Nick Clegg has comfirmed that this affect is already in place. Of course the law still have to be passed but he has said the affect is now in place. If the Cambridges had a baby girl tomorrow, she will be the future Queen.

If Kate has a baby girl tomorrow she will be Queen: Nick Clegg promises Duchess of Cambridge's daughter could succeed to the throne:
Kate Middleton: Nick Clegg promises Duchess of Cambridge's daughter could succeed to the throne | Mail Online

Here's the article where MP Nick Clegg is confirming the change.
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  #295  
Old 11-02-2012, 01:09 AM
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That's not a confirmation, that's just a "promise" and outline of the plans.
Until the changes are unanimously and officially adopted by all countries of the Realm, they will have no legal power.

If William and Catherine have a daughter tomorrow, she will be Heiress Presumptive, not Heiress Apparent. Only if and when the proposed changes are passed as laws in the Realms (and, if it happens after the girl is born, they'll need to have retroactive effect) will she be Heiress Apparent to the Throne even if younger brothers are born.
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  #296  
Old 11-02-2012, 01:21 AM
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If William & Harry were to die w/o an heir and the Queen & Charles die. Shouldn't we have a Queen Anne rather than a King Andrew?
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  #297  
Old 11-02-2012, 01:24 AM
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Well, I hope the law is changed and adopted by the realms. If their first born is a girl, at least she will have an equal shot at the throne.

As I said before, I think the royal couple is more focused on getting the children here first though.

No doubt Anne would make a fine Queen but I think Andrew would succeed.
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  #298  
Old 11-02-2012, 01:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
If Kate has a baby girl tomorrow she will be Queen: Nick Clegg promises Duchess of Cambridge's daughter could succeed to the throne:
Kate Middleton: Nick Clegg promises Duchess of Cambridge's daughter could succeed to the throne | Mail Online

Here's the article where MP Nick Clegg is confirming the change.

He is wrong.

The changes need to be legislated and so far they haven't been. They can't even agree on the wording to put before the various realms nearly a year on since agreeing to make the change - that alone should tell you just how difficult it will be to get 16 independent nations to pass identical legislation.

If William and Kate have a girl and then a boy and then The Queen, Charles and William all die before the legislation is passed in all the realms the boy will succeed.

The intention is to get the legislation through so that a daughter in the above scenario would succeed but it isn't as simple as Clegg thinks.
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  #299  
Old 11-02-2012, 02:20 AM
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That's why I say the realms should wake up, pass the legislation, make it a new law and call it a night.
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  #300  
Old 11-02-2012, 02:24 AM
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Unfortunately, it's probably not that simple.

The text of the legislation probably isn't a big deal. 15 of these countries have never passed a law changing the line of succession, though, so the actual procedure has to be worked out, and it won't be the same process everywhere. For example, the Parliament of New Zealand is supreme with the ability to legislate on anything, but in Canada and Australia the federal parliaments have limited powers. In some countries, it won't require any action at all because their constitutions allow the British Parliament to make the necessary changes for them, but in others it will require more study and perhaps even the involvement of the courts to determine what action is required.
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