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  #41  
Old 01-29-2017, 08:35 AM
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Read More: Trump's state visit should be scrapped, critics say
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Theresa May is under pressure to cancel a planned state visit to the UK by President Trump later this year because of his controversial immigration policies.

A UK online petition calling for the state visit to be scrapped as it "would cause embarrassment to the Queen" has already been backed by more than 100,000 people.
Calls to stop President Trump's state visit to UK - BBC News
Quote:
Liberal Democrat leader Tim Farron backed the call. He said: "Any visit by President Trump to Britain should be on hold until his disgraceful ban comes to an end.

"Otherwise Theresa May would be placing the Queen in an impossible position of welcoming a man who is banning British citizens purely on grounds of their faith."

Alex Salmond, the SNP's foreign affairs spokesman, said he thought the state visit was "a very bad idea".

Also appearing on Sky News' Sophy Ridge, he said: "You shouldn't be rushing into a headlong relationship with the President of the United States.

Mr Salmond said reports Mr Trump was reluctant to meet Prince Charles during the visit were "an indication of the sort of enormous difficulties you get into when you hold somebody tight who is unpredictable, who has a range of views you find unacceptable."

Paddy Ashdown, former leader of the Liberal Democrats, has questioned the state visit on Twitter.
He wrote: "Am I alone in finding it impossible to bear that in pursuit of her deeply wrong-headed policies our PM is now forcing THAT MAN on our Queen?"
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  #42  
Old 01-29-2017, 10:16 AM
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https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/171928
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  #43  
Old 01-29-2017, 11:05 AM
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America is the UK's most important ally. Trump is the democratically elected President. The UK welcomes such human rights champions as Bahrain and Saudi Arabia to the UK.

In the past Robert 'The Beast' Mugabe and Nicolae 'The bulldozer' Ceaușescu had state visits

Regardless of your politics, it's laughable to want to ban an American President
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  #44  
Old 01-29-2017, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
America is the UK's most important ally. Trump is the democratically elected President. The UK welcomes such human rights champions as Bahrain and Saudi Arabia to the UK.

In the past Robert 'The Beast' Mugabe and Nicolae 'The bulldozer' Ceaușescu had state visits

Regardless of your politics, it's laughable to want to ban an American President
Thank you. This talk of not welcoming the US President - when he is doing exactly what many Presidents have been obliged to do during their terms with various other folks - is quite insulting.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but whether or not QEII visits with our President is not so much important as whether or not he would be excluded when brutal dictators have not.

  #45  
Old 01-29-2017, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
America is the UK's most important ally. Trump is the democratically elected President. The UK welcomes such human rights champions as Bahrain and Saudi Arabia to the UK.

In the past Robert 'The Beast' Mugabe and Nicolae 'The bulldozer' Ceaușescu had state visits

Regardless of your politics, it's laughable to want to ban an American President

This is a bit of an apples and oranges comparison. Mugabe came into power in the 80s, Ceaușescu even earlier than that, when popular protest took a different form - it is much easier now to protest from home and to object to something like the state visit of a foreign head of state as soon as it's announced.

That said, the U.K. Government has not always been accepting of Mugabe, and spoke against him in recent years. Other heads of state have also received protests when they've travelled to Britain, and a few years ago there was even a petition to arrest the Pope (Benedict, not Francis) when his plane set down in London for his role in not stopping pedophilia in the Catholic Church. I believe there were also protests regarding some of the guests at William and Kate's wedding along the lines of "why is this dictator invited to the royal wedding?"

This protest is not the first one to be held against a foreign head of state, nor is it likely to be the last. But because of social media it's gaining more support than any protest that happened earlier than the early 2000s, and because of who Trump is and what country he's from it's gaining more attention than previous protests. Let's be honest, it's one thing to protest the totalitarian dictator of an African country getting a state visit. It's another thing to protest the "leader of the free world" and the democratically elected president of one of the UK's biggest trading partners.
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  #46  
Old 01-29-2017, 02:19 PM
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What is wrong about this petition is that it is using the Queen in a political argument. It states that it should be cancelledto avoid embarassing the Queen.

It is wrong to use her as the reason. She wont be embarassed - she might even help.
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  #47  
Old 01-29-2017, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
Now over 500k
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  #48  
Old 01-29-2017, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by cepe View Post
What is wrong about this petition is that it is using the Queen in a political argument. It states that it should be cancelledto avoid embarassing the Queen.

I can actually justify this reasoning too. I really doubt that this is the logic behind the petition, but the Queen is a symbol for the country. Embarrassment the Queen (on something like this) can be seen as embarrassment for the country.

Again, I do not believe that's the logic being used by the petitioners, but it is a logic that has sense. I don't know about in the UK, although I'd assume it's the same, but in Canada new citizens take an oath to the Queen. This has been contested and upheld in courts, with judges stating that in swearing an oath to the Queen you are actually swearing an oath to the nation.

Likewise, where a Republic might have a legal case that is Republic vs. John Doe, in the monarchy it's Regina vs. John Doe, with the Queen standing in as a symbol for the country.

Here, an "embarrassment to the Queen" should be taken as an "embarrassment to the country."
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  #49  
Old 01-29-2017, 03:06 PM
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If the Government of The United Kingdom wants a State Visit with America, the Queen will meet with the president. It's because the Queen is non-political she can meet with whatever head of state the government wishes her to meet with.

Invitations for state visits are sent out by the Foreign Office.
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  #50  
Old 01-29-2017, 03:15 PM
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I'm not one to embroil myself in politics at all and generally like to sit on the fence post watching the world go by but in all honesty, I cannot for the life of me see the US state visit to the UK as being something that would throw the Queen for a loop, embarass her or make her reach for the smelling salts.

If anything, it would be the other way around. HM is the mistress of diplomacy, tact, protocol and politeness. I honestly think it would be Trump shaking in his boots in her presence and who knows? Perhaps after a few of HM's "looks", Mr. Trump would find himself in the presence of one who has garnered the respect and admiration of the world for many decades and he may decide to take a few pages out of her book to emulate. It seems to me that he already has a few figures that he does admire in Winston Churchill, Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher. All three of them had great respect and admiration for HM, The Queen.

If anything. rather than embarass the Queen, I think HM is in the position to set a firm example of how to interact with foreign heads of state. Its too bad Mr. Trump doesn't have a summer to follow HM around and watch and observe and take in the basic lessons of Diplomacy 101. He means well but is very much rough around the edges.
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  #51  
Old 01-29-2017, 04:47 PM
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To return the discussion to purely the Queen meeting President Trump during a state visit to the UK, lets ask ourselves a question here. is it really feasible that Mr. Trump would or could actually throw the Queen for a loop? Or is it likely that she will throw him for a loop?

Its been stated a few times that Mr. Trump would like to visit Balmoral and "tee off" with the Queen. Do any of us here seriously believe that should Mr. Trump go to Balmoral that it would be him calling the shots? Perhaps Mr. Trump would be able to do a few rounds of golf on the estate's course but seeing as neither the Queen or Philip golf, Trump is likely to be disappointed at the photo op he may be imagining. Perhaps Andrew will golf with him. Depends on if Andrew is even at Balmoral at the time. Personally, I think Mr. Trump spending time at Balmoral, even with its pretty regulated schedules, is a bit too casual.

Personally, I think a state visit with "the full Monty" that Mr. Trump seems to suggest he wants would be best off either at Buckingham Palace or even Windsor Castle. For all we know, Mr. Trump may only associate HM with Buckingham Palace. I think if the visit was handled with the strictest of protocol involved, Mr. Trump would be well advised ahead of time of what is what and how he is expected to behave from the get go with no deviations.

Very formal with the British royal family pulling out all the stops of pomp and pageantry and protocol should do the trick. It would solve the desire of Trump to get "the full Monty" and it would be within easier access to the other places Trump wishes to visit. A white tie affair just may be a good tool to choke up any disparaging remarks in my opinion.

One thing I do think HM and Trump will have as common ground for conversation is the subject of Winston Churchill. If Mr. Trump profoundly admires Sir Winston, it will be a rather delicious treat for him to talk with someone that not only knew him, but worked with him closely.

This definitely will be a state visit to watch and the conundrum of Kate's having a RFO or not could possibly take a back seat.
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  #52  
Old 01-29-2017, 05:14 PM
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HMQ and "State Visitor" dont actually spend much time together.

Day 1: Meet and greet; exchange of gifts; state dinner
Day 2: Nothing
DAy 3: Farewell

The only exception to this I remember was Pres Reagan riding with HMQ when the visit was at Windsor
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  #53  
Old 01-29-2017, 05:20 PM
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Exactly my point. The best way to assure that things go according to plan is to make the plans foolproof in the first place.

Although Mr. Trump seems to want to have the same attention and respect and the level of friendship that President Reagan and his wife, Nancy, shared with the Queen and the DoE, that is something that cannot or will not ever be forced. The Queen is also much older now and her level of physical involvement in doing things with the Trumps may not live up to his expectations

What it will boil down to is that President Trump will be meeting The Queen on her own turf, in her own time and at her own pace.
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  #54  
Old 01-29-2017, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Exactly my point. The best way to assure that things go according to plan is to make the plans foolproof in the first place.

Although Mr. Trump seems to want to have the same attention and respect and the level of friendship that President Reagan and his wife, Nancy, shared with the Queen and the DoE, that is something that cannot or will not ever be forced. The Queen is also much older now and her level of physical involvement in doing things with the Trumps may not live up to his expectations

What it will boil down to is that President Trump will be meeting The Queen on her own turf, in her own time and at her own pace.
My initial idea was that this would be a perfect visit for Scotland but then he couldnt address the 2 Houses. But Andrew could host an event at Balmoral which would be amazing as its her private home. London and then Balmoral.
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  #55  
Old 01-29-2017, 10:20 PM
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I think some of the repulsion people feel is to the rude, classless nature of the requests being made.

State Visit, sure. But to state that it has to be bigger than anyone else has received? To demand invitations to not one, but two private homes (Balmoral and Blenheim)? To request that the Cambridges invite him to KP, because the Obamas went? To attempt to compel obsequiousness from Britain as if it's a sign of respect?

The demand for an invitation to dinner at Blenheim is, to me, actually worse than the demand for an invitation to Balmoral. At least the Queen is HoS and there's an expectation that she host him, and he probably doesn't understand that Balmoral is a private home. Attempting to impose on Marlborough is sheer ill manners. You don't invite yourself over for dinner full stop. You especially don't do it for the sake of your own ego.

There will be a State Visit, and the Queen will behave faultlessly. That doesn't change the fact that the request itself has been, from beginning to end, gross and grasping and blatant. I think that's in part why people are responding so vehemently.
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Old 01-29-2017, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by hel View Post
There will be a State Visit, and the Queen will behave faultlessly. That doesn't change the fact that the request itself has been, from beginning to end, gross and grasping and blatant. I think that's in part why people are responding so vehemently.
President Trump reminds me very much of a bull in a china shop and sometimes blurts things out without thinking them through. I do believe though that he will soon find out that just because he is President of the United States, it doesn't necessarily mean that everything and everyone will go along with his wishes and things will not always go as he wishes them to.

Perhaps the saving factor is that now, I've seen, its been announced that the state visit from the US to the UK will be held in June. Hopefully it will be scheduled after Trooping the Color and Ascot week but before HM heads to Scotland for her summer retreat.

Windsor would be perfect for the state banquet and close enough to London for Trump to take in other points of interests. Whether or not any more of the royal family or nobility choose to participate in hosting the Trumps is yet to be determined but I don't think they'll feel obligated to.
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  #57  
Old 01-30-2017, 02:48 AM
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I think some of the repulsion people feel is to the rude, classless nature of the requests being made.

State Visit, sure. But to state that it has to be bigger than anyone else has received? To demand invitations to not one, but two private homes (Balmoral and Blenheim)? To request that the Cambridges invite him to KP, because the Obamas went? To attempt to compel obsequiousness from Britain as if it's a sign of respect?

The demand for an invitation to dinner at Blenheim is, to me, actually worse than the demand for an invitation to Balmoral. At least the Queen is HoS and there's an expectation that she host him, and he probably doesn't understand that Balmoral is a private home. Attempting to impose on Marlborough is sheer ill manners. You don't invite yourself over for dinner full stop. You especially don't do it for the sake of your own ego.

There will be a State Visit, and the Queen will behave faultlessly. That doesn't change the fact that the request itself has been, from beginning to end, gross and grasping and blatant. I think that's in part why people are responding so vehemently.

Demanding to meet the Cambridges is particularly obnoxious because of his objectifying and demeaning remarks about Catherine when her privacy was invaded on vacation several years ago.

I hope the Cambridges don't participate in this visit and deny Trump the "glamour" photo ops and coverage he prefers.


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Old 01-30-2017, 03:34 AM
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The visit should be canceled, but I don't think it will happen, sadly.

Love the coins to commemorate The Queen's Sapphire Jubilee.
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  #59  
Old 01-30-2017, 03:42 AM
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General News & Information for Queen Elizabeth and Duke of Edinburgh

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The visit should be canceled, but I don't think it will happen, sadly.

Love the coins to commemorate The Queen's Sapphire Jubilee.

Agreed on both points.

I'd also forgotten that Trump made demeaning comments about the late Diana, Princess of Wales as well as the Duchess of Cambridge.

This visit has the potential for awkwardness on several different levels. I have no doubt the Queen will handle it impeccably, but it's a disgrace in so many ways.

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Old 01-30-2017, 05:36 AM
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I had no idea he demanded or requested or suggested he get anything other than the standard meeting process. That's ridiculous. I don't want special treatment, just equal treatment. Good grief. Good thing QEII is such a pro.
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