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  #161  
Old 11-20-2003, 07:48 PM
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(AP Photo/ Matthew Fearn, Pool)
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  #162  
Old 11-20-2003, 07:50 PM
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I know this has already been addressed but I would like to say something as well. The Queen of the United Kingdom is equal to few (other reigning monarchs as well as sitting presidents) and second to none. Wives/husbands of the heads of state do not curtsy or bow to anyone because they are all equal. In 1963, after President John F. Kennedy was assassinated his widow, Jacqueline Kennedy, stood in a receiving line at the White House. She greeted each visiting dignitary. The Duke of Edinburgh attended on behalf of the Queen (she could not attend because she was pregnant with Prince Edward). Mrs. Kennedy curtsied to him after they had finished her conversation. Later, she asked one of her aides whether or not it was proper for her to curtsy to him. The aide told her no that wives of heads of state do not curtsy to anyone. Mrs. Kennedy replied that she was no longer the wife of a sitting head of state. So it was altogether proper that President and Mrs. Bush did not curtsy to anyone. I think anyone (even Americans) would curtsy to the Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh if they were to meet them. It is a remark of respect and one would be looked down upon for not being respectful to Royalty.
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  #163  
Old 11-20-2003, 08:00 PM
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A very interesting story about Jacqueline Kennedy, mybags.

Maybe I am a big tradtional, but I think that regardless of whatever historical battles were fought, President Bush and the First Lady should've bowed and curtseyed to the Queen, if only out of respect.

Fine if they wouldn't bow to Prince Charles, but to the Queen? The most nominal demonstration of courtesy in my view.
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  #164  
Old 11-20-2003, 08:26 PM
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Mrs. Bush looked quite nice as usual (she's not a shopstopper in the couture department but she's always appropriate) but her burgundy evening emsemble was a mistake. Had she worn a gown made completely of burgundy velvet with that gorgeous diamond necklace she would have looked absolutely marvelous. And if she really wanted to wear gloves she should have worn white gloves that stop at the wrist and not full-length gloves scrunnched down or not worn any at all (anyone know if gloves are part of protocol?)

Are there any pics of Condelezza Rice? She's looked fantastic at previous galas.
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  #165  
Old 11-20-2003, 08:34 PM
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Oops! On closer look, Mrs. Bush is wearing mid-length gloves and a diamond and pearl necklace.
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  #166  
Old 11-20-2003, 08:45 PM
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The statistics
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/bush_ukvisit/

By the numbers
Justin Thompson, CBC News Online | November 18, 2003

On November 18, 2003, U.S. President George W. Bush arrived in London for his first-ever state visit to the U.K. He and first lady Laura Bush arrived at Heathrow Airport to a welcome by Prince Charles, whose mother, Queen Elizabeth II, is hosting the couple at Buckingham Palace.

Along with the usual changes of clothing and personal effects, the Bushes brought with them a small army of security personnel and a fleet of support vehicles and equipment. The visit is touted as one of the largest state visits in recent times.

Here’s how it shakes down, by the numbers:
14,000
The number of officer shifts scheduled by London’s Metropolitan Police to provide security for Bush’s visit to the U.K.

$11 million (£ 5 million)
The cost of hiring extra police officers to provide security for Bush’s visit.

$4.42 (£ 2)
The amount London Mayor Kenneth Livingstone estimates the Bush visit will cost the average taxpayer in his city.

$8.84 (£ 4)
The amount London Mayor Kenneth Livingstone estimates the average Londoner would be willing to pay for George W. Bush to cancel his visit.

Up to 100,000
Estimated number of people expected to march through central London to protest the visit.

1,000
Size of then-president Bill Clinton’s delegation for his trip to Vietnam in November 2000.

1918
The last time a U.S. president – Woodrow Wilson – stayed at Buckingham Palace as a guest. Wilson visited King George V shortly after Christmas that year.

13 centimetres
The thickness of the armour plating on President Bush’s limousine.

2
The minimum number of presidential limousines flown to London (one is a backup) for the visit.

2
The minimum number of Galaxy C-5 heavy transport aircraft assigned to carry U.S. support equipment and personnel on any given state visit.

200 +
The number of U.S. Secret Service agents assigned to directly guard the president during his state visit to the U.K.

2,000
The number of meals capable of being stored aboard the presidential aircraft - Air Force One.
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  #167  
Old 11-20-2003, 09:00 PM
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The way I look at it, I would bow to the queen, as she represents her country in a special way, and that is the tradtional mark of respect. It is NOT tradition to bow to a president, so we Americans have a hard time with the concept. It is not so much that you are bowing to Elizabeth Alexandra Mary Windsor, but to the Queen- the representitive of the British people- the head of State. Does that make sense?
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  #168  
Old 11-20-2003, 09:42 PM
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What jewels did The Queen wear to the return banquet given by Pres. Bush? I can't tell.
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  #169  
Old 11-20-2003, 09:43 PM
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President Bush toasts Queen Elizabeth during a thank-you dinner at Winfield House, the U. S. Ambassadors residence, in London Thursday, Nov. 20, 2003. Sitting with Her Majesty and The President are Dr. Walter Massey, President of Morehouse College in Georgia, left, and Lady Shakira Caine, wife of actor Michael Caine. (AP Photo/The White House, Eric Draper)
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  #170  
Old 11-20-2003, 10:00 PM
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Queen Elizabeth II making Her speech at the state banquet. Nov. 19, 2003
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  #171  
Old 11-20-2003, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Alexandria@Nov 20th, 2003 - 7:00 pm
Maybe I am a big tradtional, but I think that regardless of whatever historical battles were fought, President Bush and the First Lady should've bowed and curtseyed to the Queen, if only out of respect.
What for? The Queen doesn't outrank them, or at least I wouldn't think so. Besides, we Americans are sort of outside the hierarchy, if you know what I mean. We have no ranking, or none that is hereditary or requires that certain traditions be observed.

Looks like the First Lady thoroughly enjoyed the visit. She's such a sweet lady. It was interesting to read that she felt intimidated by the pomp and ceremony of British royalty. On the contrary, I'd have thought the royals might have been intimidated by the Bushes. And I doubt President Bush was intimidated - he is, after all, a very important person. It was an honor for him to meet the Queen of England, but it was also an honor for the Queen to meet the President of the United States of America. Also he doesn't seem like the kind of man who would be intimidated by much. But I suppose Mrs. Bush still feels like a middle-aged Texan housewife.
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  #172  
Old 11-20-2003, 10:18 PM
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Why would The Queen of England be in any way intimadated by the Bush's???? This is the woman that has been a head of state for 51 years, has entertained every U.S. Pres. since Truman, has entertained almost every major leader in the world or has been entertained by them, and is considered the most respected Head of State in the World!!! This state visit has probably just been another days work for Her and the Royal Family.
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  #173  
Old 11-20-2003, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by A.C.C.@Nov 20th, 2003 - 10:18 pm
Why would The Queen of England be in any way intimadated by the Bush's???? This is the woman that has been a head of state for 51 years, has entertained every U.S. Pres. since Truman, has entertained almost every major leader in the world or has been entertained by them, and is considered the most respected Head of State in the World!!! This state visit has probably just been another days work for Her and the Royal Family.
Very well said A.C.C.! Just another day at the "office" for the Queen!

I don't understand why the Queen would be intimidated by President Bush, either. After more than 50 years as a monarch she has met probably four or five times as many heads of states from all around the world, who have in the broader perspective of history, made great contributions to their own countries and to the world. Maybe in 50 years President Bush will be regarded as one of the greatest presidents the U.S. has ever had, but for the time being he has no significant legacy in my opinion. When I think about some of the great heads of state and real leaders of our world that the Queen has met, from Nelson Mandela to John F. Kennedy to Pierre Elliot Trudeau, President Bush pales in comparison. And if the Queen was not intimidated when meeting Mandela, Kennedy and Trudeau, why would she be so by Bush?
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  #174  
Old 11-21-2003, 12:12 AM
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Heard an interesting thing tonight. The Queen, the Duke of Edinburgh, Prince of Wales and Princess Anne were sitting together at the dinner and the reporter wondered what they all may have been talking about. The reporter that perhaps it was horses. Racing or riding them. Another tidbit. The US ambassador to Great Britain is an avid "horseman". The Queen has stayed on his stud farm in Kentucky before. I'm surprised no one has taken me up on it. But I had originally said 19 million pounds for the security costs. That was what I heard on Sunday or Monday. I think they said it on one of the TV reports or in one of the papers. O, well. Still it all costs too much. Speaking of odd things, the President's "command center for security" inside the Palace is so extensive that the satellite that the Palace has for TV could not work.
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  #175  
Old 11-21-2003, 02:14 AM
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Hi!



I've had the impression that President and Mrs Bush have felt a little overwhelmed by their stay at Buckingham Palace.

President Bush has sometimes looked as if he wants to pinch himself to make sure he's not dreaming...

Or, to shout across to Mrs Bush, "Hey, honey! Remember when your mother said I wasn't the right guy for you".

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  #176  
Old 11-21-2003, 03:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by A.C.C.@Nov 20th, 2003 - 9:18 pm
Why would The Queen of England be in any way intimadated by the Bush's????
I suppose she wouldn't be. But President Bush is, as I said, an extremely important person. He is the primary political leader of the world's only superpower. The Queen, in contrast, is the symbolic leader of a rather small country, which, though powerful, is not even close to being a superpower. In terms of pure political power, Bush clearly outranks the Queen or any other member of the royal family.

Perhaps I've caused offense? If so, please excuse me. I find it strange that anyone would suggest that by not bowing or curtsying to the Queen, the President and First Lady were being in any way disrespectful. They are equals, at least. The First Lady was intimidated only because she has a sweet, humble personality. Hillary Clinton would not have been intimidated at all.
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  #177  
Old 11-21-2003, 09:41 AM
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"Or, to shout across to Mrs Bush, "Hey, honey! Remember when your mother said I wasn't the right guy for you"

I can imagine that especially considering when they got marry. But she was his rock.
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  #178  
Old 11-21-2003, 10:13 AM
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Polfoto 21-11-2003 US President George Bush walks with Britain's Queen Elizabeth II before he and his wife left Buckingham Palace in London Friday November 21, 2003, to travel to the Sedgefield constituency of British Prime Minister Tony Blair. The President and his wife are on the last day of their three-day state visit to the UK.
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  #179  
Old 11-21-2003, 10:15 AM
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Polfoto 21-11-2003 US President George Bush (left) and his wife, Laura (second right), bid farewell to Britain's Queen Elizabeth II and her husband, the Duke of Edinburgh, as they leave Buckingham Palace Friday November 21, 2003, to travel to the Sedgefield constituency of British Prime Minister Tony Blair. The President and his wife are on the last day of their three-day state visit to the UK.
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  #180  
Old 11-21-2003, 10:17 AM
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Polfoto 21-11-2003 US President George Bush and his wife, Laura (right), walk with Britain's Queen Elizabeth II, as they leave Buckingham Palace Friday November 21, 2003, to travel to the Sedgefield constituency of British Prime Minister Tony Blair. The President and his wife are on the last day of their three-day state visit to the UK.
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