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  #681  
Old 06-21-2017, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Kronprinz View Post
Nowadays, bowing and curtseying should always be optional. No one should be criticised for doing it or not doing it.

And to be honest I think the Queen couldn't care less. I think there'll be a time when royals will ask people not to do it. At I would be embarrassed.
That practice is already absent at a number of royal courts, for an example the three Benelux monarchies, the three Scandinavian monarchies. Aside members of the royal family it is rare to see ladies go down the knees or gentlemen bowing. Not that it is forbidden, but the people are simply informed that a handshake is perfect. I have the idea thay with Charles and for sure with William this will become more rare indeed.
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  #682  
Old 06-21-2017, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
I find humour (jab) in this cartoon rather flat.
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  #683  
Old 06-21-2017, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
That practice is already absent at a number of royal courts, for an example the three Benelux monarchies, the three Scandinavian monarchies. Aside members of the royal family it is rare to see ladies go down the knees or gentlemen bowing. Not that it is forbidden, but the people are simply informed that a handshake is perfect. I have the idea thay with Charles and for sure with William this will become more rare indeed.
People are already told it's up to them whether they bow or curtsey. There is a documentary showing an investiture and when investees are being taken through what will happen they are told that at a certain point bow or curtsey "if you think it's appropriate". I think the programme was Monarchy.

I always get the impression that the Daily Mail cares more than the Royal Family about that sort of thing.
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  #684  
Old 06-22-2017, 02:06 AM
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I found it poignant to see The Prince of Wales on that seat. For me it was a symbolic picture. The Prince looked very much alike his great-uncle King Edward VIII, I must say.

Picture.
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  #685  
Old 06-22-2017, 02:08 AM
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What a terrible error from the Queen and her staff to have her wearing that hat to this occasion. Right up there with Maxima wearing that dress with what looked, to anyone with eyes in their head, to be swastikas on it to Germany.

Given how many staff these people have, mistakes like this simply shouldn't happen.

Kate gets raked over hot coals for the tiniest little thing with her clothes. Had she worn a hat that looks a heck of a lot like the hated (in the UK at least) EU flag to make her most political speech of the year live to the nation on TV she would have been slaughtered on these boards. Let today be the end of the myth, much repeated here, that the Queen never gets her wardrobe wrong.
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  #686  
Old 06-22-2017, 03:00 AM
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Ghastly, fake and a bit drab ... no wonder HM sounded below par: QUENTIN LETTS endures a State Opening shorn of the ceremonial

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  #687  
Old 06-22-2017, 03:01 AM
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Fashion like beauty is in eye if beholder. There are people on this board who Kate could wear a paper bag and purple Mohawk, and she would be called best dressed. Trend setter. Fashion queen.

I am sorry, but the comparison to the European flag is muck raking at best

It's a blue hat with blue daisies. The yellow centres are to match her yellow dress. Her outfits are coordinated so every piece is custom made to match each.

Now if she had a hat with yellow stars around it, I could see complaining.
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  #688  
Old 06-22-2017, 04:02 AM
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Originally Posted by RumPunch View Post
What a terrible error from the Queen and her staff to have her wearing that hat to this occasion. Right up there with Maxima wearing that dress with what looked, to anyone with eyes in their head, to be swastikas on it to Germany.

Given how many staff these people have, mistakes like this simply shouldn't happen.

Kate gets raked over hot coals for the tiniest little thing with her clothes. Had she worn a hat that looks a heck of a lot like the hated (in the UK at least) EU flag to make her most political speech of the year live to the nation on TV she would have been slaughtered on these boards. Let today be the end of the myth, much repeated here, that the Queen never gets her wardrobe wrong.
In her long, long Reign Her Majesty has seen her European Realms going sluggish for decades and even through never-seen lows in the middle of the 1970's: the Winter of Discontent comes to mind, or even the then unimaginable which became reality: the IMF had to bail out the United Kingdom because the Bank of England had to withdraw from the foreign exchange market, due to the totally collapsed Pound.

The entrance of the United Kingdom to the (then) European Community, the Single Market and the Customs Union has given the nation so much. Today's United Kingdom is a far cry from the impoverished state it was in. All this was achieved during the full membership of the largest economic bloc in the world. The UK owes a lot to the close-knit, border-free, EU-wide trade. I would say: Her Majesty knows her classics and she has not forgotten that 48% of her fellow British citizens, and the majority in three of her European Realms have voted to remain...

Three cheers for the Queen!

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  #689  
Old 06-22-2017, 04:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
Fashion like beauty is in eye if beholder. There are people on this board who Kate could wear a paper bag and purple Mohawk, and she would be called best dressed. Trend setter. Fashion queen.

I am sorry, but the comparison to the European flag is muck raking at best

It's a blue hat with blue daisies. The yellow centres are to match her yellow dress. Her outfits are coordinated so every piece is custom made to match each.

Now if she had a hat with yellow stars around it, I could see complaining.
There's also the fact that hats are not created overnight. For all we know, this outfit worn at the State Opening of Parliament was thought up a year ago, on the designing board for the Queen 8 months ago and actually sewn up and fashioned to fit 4 months ago. Its highly doubtful that the circumstances of that day in Parliament were behind the creation.

I actually found myself trying to figure out if the the dress HM was wearing underneath the coats for the day was the same pattern and all HM had to do to "change up" her outfits between the State Opening and Ascot was switch coats and hats. Blue and yellow seemed to be the colors of the day.
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  #690  
Old 06-22-2017, 05:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
In her long, long Reign Her Majesty has seen her European Realms going sluggish for decades and even through never-seen lows in the middle of the 1970's: the Winter of Discontent comes to mind, or even the then unimaginable which became reality: the IMF had to bail out the United Kingdom because the Bank of England had to withdraw from the foreign exchange market, due to the totally collapsed Pound.

The entrance of the United Kingdom to the (then) European Community, the Single Market and the Customs Union has given the nation so much. Today's United Kingdom is a far cry from the impoverished state it was in. All this was achieved during the full membership of the largest economic bloc in the world. The UK owes a lot to the close-knit, border-free, EU-wide trade. I would say: Her Majesty knows her classics and she has not forgotten that 48% of her fellow British citizens, and the majority in three of her European Realms have voted to remain...

Three cheers for the Queen!

What 'three' European realms voted?

The UK of GB and NI voted I know that - one realm. What were the other two?

Remember she is the Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, not the Queen of England, Queen of Scotland, Queen of Wales or Queen of Northern Ireland as separate realms but of the UK only.

Northern Ireland and Scotland voted to remain.

England and Wales voted to leave.

However as they are one country one realm voted to leave and that is the way a democracy works - the majority rules and the minority has to accept that decision.

Please tell me what are the other realms of Europe of which the Queen is Queen that even had the chance to vote.
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  #691  
Old 06-22-2017, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
What 'three' European realms voted?

The UK of GB and NI voted I know that - one realm. What were the other two?

Remember she is the Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, not the Queen of England, Queen of Scotland, Queen of Wales or Queen of Northern Ireland as separate realms but of the UK only.

Northern Ireland and Scotland voted to remain.

England and Wales voted to leave.

However as they are one country one realm voted to leave and that is the way a democracy works - the majority rules and the minority has to accept that decision.

Please tell me what are the other realms of Europe of which the Queen is Queen that even had the chance to vote.
Scotland: remain
Northern Ireland; remain
Gibraltar: remain
Wales: leave
England: leave
Overall: 48,11 to remain and 51,89 to leave.
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  #692  
Old 06-22-2017, 01:10 PM
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I'm going to choose to believe the extremely well-connected and respected BBC Political Editor Laura Keunssberg (a Scot working for a pro-Remain organisation in the BBC) who said, after the Referendum, that she understood from a most impeccable, high placed source within Buckingham Palace that the Queen did indeed make comments at a dinner that made clear her preference for the UK to leave the EU and become once more a sovereign and independent nation.

This was dismissed as muckraking from the Leave campaign and The Sun before the referendum and BP took a very dim view of the comments being reported, but it is now generally accepted that the Queen did make pro-leave comments privately.

Which makes the hat yesterday even more inexplicable.
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  #693  
Old 06-22-2017, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
That practice is already absent at a number of royal courts, for an example the three Benelux monarchies, the three Scandinavian monarchies. Aside members of the royal family it is rare to see ladies go down the knees or gentlemen bowing. Not that it is forbidden, but the people are simply informed that a handshake is perfect. I have the idea thay with Charles and for sure with William this will become more rare indeed.
I don't know about Norway, but bowing and curstying are still pretty standard in Denmark. It is only in Sweden really that they have fallen somewhat out of use.
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  #694  
Old 06-22-2017, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post
I find humour (jab) in this cartoon rather flat.
Self-deprecation and humour are what have kept the British going through some of their darkest times...
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  #695  
Old 06-22-2017, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Scotland: remain
Northern Ireland; remain
Gibraltar: remain
Wales: leave
England: leave
Overall: 48,11 to remain and 51,89 to leave.
You referred to 'three realms'. These are NOT different realms but the same one - the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. So ONE realm voted to leave as only one realm is a member of the EU. There is only ONE realm in the EU - the rest are in places like the Americas, Africa or the Pacific but not in Europe.

The Queen is NOT the Queen of England for instance or Queen of Scotland. Neither of those are titles she holds or countries of which she is Queen. She was crowned Queen of the UK of GB and NI - one country not four or five separate realms.

There are 16 realms - Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, The Bahamas, Barbados, Belize, Canada, Grenada, Jamaica, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, St Kitts and Nevis, St Lucia, St Vincent and Grenadines, Solomon Islands, Tuvalu, UK. Note that only one of those realms is in the UK.

In a democracy the majority rules and that is the 51.89% that voted to leave. If 50.01% had voted to leave it is still a majority and thus they would have left.
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  #696  
Old 06-22-2017, 06:04 PM
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In any case the Queen is also monarch over the 48,11 % of her fellow countrymen who thought that leaving the European Union was not a particularly good idea at all. As the core business of a monarch is to encourage social cohesion in society and have a broader vision than the next Prime Minister Questions in the House of Commons, it was wise to reach out to that half of society which did join the zelots of the Leave campaign. Very wise. Together with the assumed pro-Brexit off-the-record-remark, this is then balancing the swing to an impartial Queen.
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  #697  
Old 06-22-2017, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
What 'three' European realms voted?

The UK of GB and NI voted I know that - one realm. What were the other two?

Remember she is the Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, not the Queen of England, Queen of Scotland, Queen of Wales or Queen of Northern Ireland as separate realms but of the UK only.

Northern Ireland and Scotland voted to remain.

England and Wales voted to leave.

However as they are one country one realm voted to leave and that is the way a democracy works - the majority rules and the minority has to accept that decision.

Please tell me what are the other realms of Europe of which the Queen is Queen that even had the chance to vote.
Well then, if it are not "realms" then we can say that the majority in three of the five nations voted against leaving the European Union. I hope we can consider Scotland, Northern Ireland and Gibraltar as nations indeed.
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  #698  
Old 06-22-2017, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
In any case the Queen is also monarch over the 48,11 % of her fellow countrymen who thought that leaving the European Union was not a particularly good idea at all. As the core business of a monarch is to encourage social cohesion in society and have a broader vision than the next Prime Minister Questions in the House of Commons, it was wise to reach out to that half of society which did join the zelots of the Leave campaign. Very wise. Together with the assumed pro-Brexit off-the-record-remark, this is then balancing the swing to an impartial Queen.
It is not the Queen's role to decide the country's foreign policy or to dictate its relations with other foreign nations. If anything, it was up to the Parliament, as the sovereign body under the British "constitution", to decide whether a majority of 52 % in a referendum was sufficient to warrant invoking Art. 50 of the Lisbon Treaty or not (keep in mind that the referendum itself was legally non-binding).

Once Parliament (with support of both the Tories and Labour) passed the bill allowing the government to invoke Art. 50, then I assume the UK politicians made their policy decision and it is not up to the Queen to question it. The politicians will be politically responsible in the future though for the course they have taken now, especially the ones that are currently in government, as there is still a policy debate over hard Brexit vs. soft Brexit, I guess.
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  #699  
Old 06-22-2017, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Well then, if it are not "realms" then we can say that the majority in three of the five nations voted against leaving the European Union. I hope we can consider Scotland, Northern Ireland and Gibraltar as nations indeed.
Are they independent members of the UN or the EU - no. They are ONE country or ONE nation.

They are like Australian states or Canadian provinces not nations or countries.

Would the French regard Burgundy or Normandy as 'nations' or 'countries' - no. These four areas are no different - once independent of the whole but have lost their independence over time and are now part of a nation or country called the United Kingdom - one realm, one nation, one country.
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  #700  
Old 06-22-2017, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
There's also the fact that hats are not created overnight. For all we know, this outfit worn at the State Opening of Parliament was thought up a year ago, on the designing board for the Queen 8 months ago and actually sewn up and fashioned to fit 4 months ago. Its highly doubtful that the circumstances of that day in Parliament were behind the creation.

I actually found myself trying to figure out if the the dress HM was wearing underneath the coats for the day was the same pattern and all HM had to do to "change up" her outfits between the State Opening and Ascot was switch coats and hats. Blue and yellow seemed to be the colors of the day.
They were two different, but very similar, dresses. There is a side-by-side comparison over on "From Her Majesty's Jewel Vault" - down in the comments. From Her Majesty's Jewel Vault: State Opening of Parliament and Royal Ascot, Day 2
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