The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Reigning Houses > British Royals

Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #541  
Old 05-31-2015, 07:34 AM
PetticoatLane's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: A Small Town, United Kingdom
Posts: 381
Oh for goodness' sake, don't for an instant over-state the power of the House of Lords. They have almost no real power, they can only delay legislation, not stop it. All the power in the UK rests in the directly elected House of Commons which can create, stop and alter legislation with a simple majority. They can also over-ride the House of Lords if they reject legislation.

The House of Lords is one of the weakest 2nd chambers in the Western world. They have no veto power over legislation, they cannot originate bills concerning taxation or supply, they cannot oppose a bill which was included in the governing party's manifesto, even their ability to delay bills is curtailed by time restraints.

Their members are not directly elected, they are appointed by each of the parties of the House of Commons generally depending on their relative strengths at general elections. Or by an Independent Appointments Commission who appoint non-party political members. They're also not paid a salary.

There has been much gnashing of teeth about whether to make the HoL an elected chamber but I sense little appetite for it among the public. Holding yet more expensive elections when we already have one elected chamber seems silly to most people. The HoL does a pretty good job of scrutinising legislation and is full of all sorts of experts in many fields who simply would not stand for election if it became an elected chamber. It would be filled with yet more career politicians who know nothing of the real world.

The British system of government is not perfect but please, could people be careful before accusing us Brits of being like Russia?!
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #542  
Old 05-31-2015, 07:39 AM
Lee-Z's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Heerlen, Netherlands
Posts: 2,147
Quote:
Originally Posted by PetticoatLane View Post
The British system of government is not perfect but please, could people be careful before accusing us Brits of being like Russia?!
I think some people enjoy showing disdain for certain countries/monarchies luckily we only write opinions on these boards and very rarely facts
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #543  
Old 05-31-2015, 07:43 AM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 1,785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
I do think the British royals have been bullied when it comes to their jewels. The other monarchies have made it known that it's very possible to remain relevant and modern, all while maintaining their beauty and glamour.

Other European royals are frequently seen wearing their jewels, but the continental monarchies , at least after the fall of the great royal houses (France, Austria, Russia, etc.) and in some countries even long before that, have done away with coronations. Countries like Sweden or Spain have exquisite physical crowns, but the king never wears it. Britain is the exception.

I have nothing against a state opening of parliament and a speech from throne. I just don't see the point of forcing the queen to wear a heavy piece like the crown, especially at her age.
Reply With Quote
  #544  
Old 05-31-2015, 07:51 AM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 1,785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post

So I am sure we will see a reform, sooner or later. When the House of Lords will change in an elected body and no longer an assembly of appointed Peers and Peeresses, of appointed Lords Spiritual (Anglican Bishops and Archbishops), of appointed Law Lords (justices), etc. the State Opening will have a total different look. Mark my words.


Not much of a reform, but I believe the new Law Lords (justices) are no longer members of the HoL as there is now something called the Supreme Court of the UK, which has replaced the HoL as the highest court in the land. Only justices who were created life peers in the past (i.e before the reform) still have the right to attend the HoL, but I'm not sure if they do.
Reply With Quote
  #545  
Old 05-31-2015, 08:08 AM
wbenson's Avatar
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: -, United States
Posts: 2,304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Only justices who were created life peers in the past (i.e before the reform) still have the right to attend the HoL, but O'm not sure if they do.
When the Supreme Court was created, justices who had peerages were prohibited from speaking or voting in the House of Lords until they leave the court.
Reply With Quote
  #546  
Old 05-31-2015, 08:18 AM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 1,785
Quote:
Originally Posted by wbenson View Post
When the Supreme Court was created, justices who had peerages were prohibited from speaking or voting in the House of Lords until they leave the court.

Thanks for clarifying that.
Reply With Quote
  #547  
Old 05-31-2015, 08:37 AM
Elly C's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Worcester, United Kingdom
Posts: 2,300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I have nothing against a state opening of parliament and a speech from throne. I just don't see the point of forcing the queen to wear a heavy piece like the crown, especially at her age.
For most Brits continuity and symbolism are important. The pomp surrounding the Queen's speech at the State Opening of Parliament is what we expect - were the Queen to abandon the crown/the heavy train etc. it would appear a diminished event and the Queen's role similarly so. Yes it is perhaps logical to make things easier for an elderly monarch and update the wearing of the regalia but I believe we Brits are sensitive such changes and it wouldn't play out well.
Reply With Quote
  #548  
Old 05-31-2015, 09:07 AM
MARG's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 6,049
Sad but true. Although I see a time in the future when the actual crown will be ceremonially carried in front of HM and placed in place of honour during the State Opening.

Just thinking, and also remembering HM reign, so maybe not. Sheer determination alone may carry her through to the end.

Whichever way it happens, it will be her choice.
__________________
MARG
"Words ought to be a little wild, for they are assaults of thoughts on the unthinking." - JM Keynes
Reply With Quote
  #549  
Old 05-31-2015, 09:18 AM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: pinner, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,079
It isn't broken, so why the need to fix it ? Just because the continental royals do it one way, why do we need to ape them ? Our royal family didn't start trundling around on bicycles when the Dutch royals [temporarily] did so...
The continuity and symbolism of 'the King in Parliament' embodied in the State opening [as now constituted] is part of the warp and weft of life here, and why should everything be standardised to 'European models' , whose history is SO different from ours ?
Reply With Quote
  #550  
Old 05-31-2015, 11:11 AM
wbenson's Avatar
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: -, United States
Posts: 2,304
There has been one time in the Queen's reign when she attended the opening of parliament but all the ceremonial was set aside. In March 1974, the economic situation was so bad that she traveled by car and wore day dress, with none of the usual processions, etc. happening.
Reply With Quote
  #551  
Old 05-31-2015, 11:44 AM
Elly C's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Worcester, United Kingdom
Posts: 2,300
There were two elections that year and so two State Openings, but only one of these was scaled down.
Reply With Quote
  #552  
Old 05-31-2015, 02:09 PM
RoyalProtocol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Belfast, United Kingdom
Posts: 704
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elly C View Post
There were two elections that year and so two State Openings, but only one of these was scaled down.

I remember reading about the March 1974 State Opening before. I've read the court circular entry in the times archive and it does say The Queen drove in a motor car to the peers entrance and then opened Parliament. But The Times had no photos of the event.

Has anyone ever seen photos of The Queen attending this very different style State Opening?


Sent from my iPad using The Royals Community
__________________
Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II
59 Years of Dedicated and Devoted Service

God Save The Queen!



Reply With Quote
  #553  
Old 05-31-2015, 02:22 PM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Christmas Island
Posts: 5,923
Quote:
Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi View Post
Wow, well that sucks. Totally makes you think whIle at the same time bringing the part down.
Actually I think Mr Putin -with all his faults- has hit an open nerve there. Nowhere in the modern West-European democracies there is a second Chamber entirely with (more than 600!!) non-elected parliamentarians. Yes, like the Bundeskammer in Germany, the Sénat in France, the Eerste Kamer in the Netherlands, the Senado in Spain, etc. the powers are limited but after all the citizens have had a vote, directly or indirectly (via the regions). It is easy to classify it as "that sucks" but one can also look with an objective eye and see what the House of Lords actually is.

Things are changing. The Scots are ramming on the gates for more powers. The new Government wants to abolish the European Convention on Human Rights and replace it with something new. A referendum on the EU is coming. Don't act like never ever nothing will change in the system of Westminster. My assessment is that it will happen sooner than we all expect. When it becomes a "normal" elected body and being a Lord or Lady with title is no longer a requirement, we automatically will see a visual change in the State Opening of Parliament and future Coronations. Mark my words.
Reply With Quote
  #554  
Old 05-31-2015, 02:30 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: England, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,250
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyalProtocol View Post
I remember reading about the March 1974 State Opening before. I've read the court circular entry in the times archive and it does say The Queen drove in a motor car to the peers entrance and then opened Parliament. But The Times had no photos of the event.

Has anyone ever seen photos of The Queen attending this very different style State Opening?


Sent from my iPad using The Royals Community
I've searched online and can't seem to find any, I imagine there were cameras there? Unless it was so low key it wasn't filmed or photographed?
Reply With Quote
  #555  
Old 05-31-2015, 02:34 PM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Christmas Island
Posts: 5,923
Quote:
Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
It isn't broken, so why the need to fix it ? Just because the continental royals do it one way, why do we need to ape them ? Our royal family didn't start trundling around on bicycles when the Dutch royals [temporarily] did so...
The continuity and symbolism of 'the King in Parliament' embodied in the State opening [as now constituted] is part of the warp and weft of life here, and why should everything be standardised to 'European models' , whose history is SO different from ours ?
Has anyone said it has to change? I only said the current system with the unelected House of Lords will change, the whole Britain is changing anyway, ask Nicola's troops...

And when the current system of Westminster changes, it will also have consequences for how the current State Opening of Parliament looks. Many of the old "traditions" are newly invented anyway. A State Opening today is vast different from a State Opening under Queen Victoria. For an example: the current building was not yet as we know it when Queen Victoria came on the throne. The current ceremony in the House of Lords was newly invented when the first State Opening started to take place in that venue. It is not that all vested in un-destroyable concrete...
Reply With Quote
  #556  
Old 05-31-2015, 02:43 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: *******, Canada
Posts: 4,394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Has anyone said it has to change? I only said the current system with the unelected House of Lords will change, the whole Britain is changing anyway, ask Nicola's troops...

And when the current system of Westminster changes, it will also have consequences for how the current State Opening of Parliament looks. Many of the old "traditions" are newly invented anyway. A State Opening today is vast different from a State Opening under Queen Victoria. For an example: the current building was not yet as we know it when Queen Victoria came on the throne. The current ceremony in the House of Lords was newly invented when the first State Opening started to take place in that venue. It is not that all vested in un-destroyable concrete...

And the British State opening of Parliament along with our Coronations and Royal Weddings makes what they do on the continent look like a high school prom

The British are still the kings of pomp and circumstance.
Reply With Quote
  #557  
Old 05-31-2015, 03:03 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 1,785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
And the British State opening of Parliament along with our Coronations and Royal Weddings makes what they do on the continent look like a high school prom

The British are still the kings of pomp and circumstance.

I agree on the state opening of parliament and coronations, but not so much on the royal weddings. William's wedding for example looked impressive mostly because of the ambiance (Westminster Abbey) and the huge number of guests in attendance, but I didn't find it particularly "pompuous" compared to similar continental events.

Recent Scandinavian weddings (e.g. in Denmark and Sweden) were "smaller" in terms of venue and total number of guests, but they were far more pompuous in dressing code (tiaras, long dresses, etc.) and number of royal guests (including monarchs in attendance). And the pre and post-wedding parties were certainly more impressive in the Scandinavian case.


I didn't see other continental wedding ceremonies that were held in large churches (for example, Philippe's wedding to Mathilde and Felipe's wedding to Letizia), but I suppose they were comparable to William's. I must say though I wasn't particularly impressed by Maxima's and Willem-Alexander's wedding, but I guess that's because I find Dutch reformed liturgy underwhelming.
Reply With Quote
  #558  
Old 05-31-2015, 03:31 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: *******, Canada
Posts: 4,394
I still prefer British weddings but add to that the Diplomatic reception ( tiara event) , Trooping the Colour, Beating Retreat, The Noble Order of the Garter Procession, Procession of the Order of the Thistle and the other events I mentioned and for me at least there is nothing to rival British pomp and circumstance. No comparison at all with the continent
Reply With Quote
  #559  
Old 03-10-2016, 07:18 PM
Dman's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 11,434
Royal Central ‏@RoyalCentral 12h12 hours ago
The State Opening of Parliament will take place on 18th May this year, it is announced.
__________________
"THE REAL POWER OF A MAN IS IN THE SIZE OF THE SMILE OF THE WOMAN SITTING NEXT TO HIM."

GENTLEMAN'S ESSENTIALS
Reply With Quote
  #560  
Old 05-17-2016, 02:08 PM
Dman's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 11,434
State Opening of Parliament May 18th 2016- BBC One: 10:30am
Coverage from the Palace of Westminster of the State Opening of Parliament attended by the Queen-
BBC One - The State Opening of Parliament

One can watch it outside the UK on Mediahhh.com
__________________

__________________
"THE REAL POWER OF A MAN IS IN THE SIZE OF THE SMILE OF THE WOMAN SITTING NEXT TO HIM."

GENTLEMAN'S ESSENTIALS
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
ceremony, elizabeth ii, opening of parliament, protocol, queen elizabeth ii


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Opening of the Parliament (Stortinget) 2004,2006 - 2011 Mandy Royal House of Norway 112 10-04-2016 08:09 AM
Opening of Parliament 2007 norwegianne Royal House of Sweden 28 10-30-2015 03:50 AM
Opening of Parliament 2006 GrandDuchess Royal House of Sweden 40 10-17-2006 02:46 AM
Opening of Parliament 2004 Alisa Royal House of Sweden 38 01-19-2005 06:13 PM




Popular Tags
ascot 2016 best gown best gown september 2016 best hat best outfit birthday birthday wishes catherine middleton style coup d'etat crown prince haakon crown princess mary crown princess mary fashion crown princess mette-marit current events duchess of cambridge e-mail fashion poll grand duke jean greece kate middleton king abdullah ii king felipe king felipe vi king willem-alexander member introduction monarchy new zealand nobel gala norway november 2016 october 2016 opening of parliament picture of the week president nieto; state visit prince alexander of sweden prince bernhard prince charles prince joachim princess madeleine princess marie princess mary princess mary daytime fashion princess mary fashion princess mary hats queen letizia queen letizia casual outfits queen letizia daytime fashion queen letizia fashion queen letizia style queen mathilde queen mathildes outfits queen maxima queen maxima casual wear queen maxima daytime fashion queen maxima fashion queen maxima hats queen maxima style queen rania royal fashion september 2016 sonja state visit state visit to denmark succession sweden the duchess of cambridge the duchess of cambridge casual wear the duchess of cambridge daytime fashion the duchess of cambridge fashion the duchess of cambridge hats


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:15 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2016
Jelsoft Enterprises