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  #261  
Old 04-01-2013, 04:39 PM
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Right. And one more thing, too much of "glamour" certainly upstages the Queen, which should never happen. It should be totally her show.
Charles+Diana did upstage the Queen.
Charles+Camilla will be a "nice accessory" without actually upstaging The Queen.
I dread the day Will+Kate attend State Opening and all DM-sort will focus on the event as if its one of Kate's daily engagement with a lot of discussion on her and her clothes, and briefly mentioning somewhere that it was The State Opening of Parliament..
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  #262  
Old 04-01-2013, 04:41 PM
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The opening of parliament is anything but the Queen's show. We simply get to enjoy the jewels as The Queen is paraded out to read some crappy speech given to her by her government.
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  #263  
Old 04-01-2013, 05:21 PM
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That's just reality. Naturally, the jewels and wardrobe is talked about. It's been going on for many years and it won't end with William & Catherine.

Although The Queen reads a speech written by the government, it's part of The Queen's ceremonial role to address her government and help present the yearly agenda. It's a pretty serious State Occasion and The Queen and other members of the royal family take it pretty serious. I think it's only right for the Monarch and her heirs and successors to attend this State event. The crowns, tiara's, royal orders, sashes and everything is just part of the royal uniform for the event.
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  #264  
Old 04-01-2013, 09:35 PM
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Old Pictures of HRH The Princess of Wales attending The State Opening of Parliament:
Princess Diana
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  #265  
Old 04-11-2013, 10:44 PM
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I have a question...

If the Queen is indisposed (just for the day, not Regency and all), then can Prince of Wales read the Queen's Speech from the Throne?
I wonder why, during the Queen's pregnancies, instead of Princess Margaret/ DoE, why did The Lord Chamberlain read The Queen's Speech..
Even now should he be doing that instead of PoW?
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  #266  
Old 04-11-2013, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by vkrish View Post
If the Queen is indisposed (just for the day, not Regency and all), then can Prince of Wales read the Queen's Speech from the Throne?
I wonder why, during the Queen's pregnancies, instead of Princess Margaret/ DoE, why did The Lord Chamberlain read The Queen's Speech..
Even now should he be doing that instead of PoW?
I would argue that you provided your answer there.

Precedent here shows that when the Queen is indisposed, but not enough so as to require a regency, it is The Lord Chamberlain's role to read the speech, not the person who would act as the regent in the case of needing one.

That, or it could be that there is no official person to do so - and in the event of the Queen's pregnancies it was simply decided that it was more desirable to have the Lord Chamberlain perform that role instead of a potential regent.
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Old 04-11-2013, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vkrish View Post
If the Queen is indisposed (just for the day, not Regency and all), then can Prince of Wales read the Queen's Speech from the Throne?
I wonder why, during the Queen's pregnancies, instead of Princess Margaret/ DoE, why did The Lord Chamberlain read The Queen's Speech..
Even now should he be doing that instead of PoW?
I don't think it is impossible for the Prince of Wales to read the Speech on the Monarch's behalf. It's just hasn't been done before simply because it isn't the Prince's job, unless he is appointed a Regent: there are others who can perform the function, should the Monarch be unable to.

In 1959 and 1963, when the Queen was pregnant with respectively Prince Andrew and Prince Edward, Parliament was opened and the Speech was read by the Lord Commissioners (not Lord Chamberlain who nowadays has nothing to do with any function of the Parliament). Back then, the Opening of the Parliament was entrusted to the Archbishop of Canterbury of the time (Geoffrey Fisher in 1959, and Michael Ramsey in 1963), while reading the Speech was done by the Lord Chancellors (Viscount Kilmuir in 1959, and Lord Dilhorne in 1963).

The Lord Commissioners are members of the Privy Council who exercise certain Parliament-related functions on the Monarch's behalf, whenever the Monarch cannot personally perform those functions. Those functions include Opening of the Parliament and reading the Queen's Speech, the confirmation of the newly elected Speaker, granting the Royal Assent, etcetera. Nowadays, the practice is to have at least three and usually five Lord Commissioners, whose numbers usually include the Lord Chancellor, the Archbishop of Canterbury, the leaders of the three major parties in the House of Lords, and the Speaker of the House of Lords.

It is also possible for the Queen's Speech to be read by the Lord Chancellor even if he isn't among the Lord Commissioners. This was done during the reigns of George I and Queen Victoria. As mentioned above, Lord Chancellor read the Queen's Speech twice during Elizabeth II's reign, although in both cases the respective Chancellors were Lord Commissioners as well.
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  #268  
Old 04-11-2013, 11:24 PM
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Thanks a lot, Artemisia. Now, what actually happens in that scenario..
Will that person still come in procession?
Does the Lord handing the speech still kneels down and hand him?
Does the Black Rod go to Commons and say "the Lord Commissioner summons this ..."?
And while reading the speech does he say "My Lords/My government etc." or "Hm's lords, HM's government, etc"..?
Did Princess Margaret/Kents/Gloucesters attend those Openings?
I wish there was a video of that proxy opening..
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  #269  
Old 04-11-2013, 11:36 PM
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I wondered about some of your questions as well. I can answer some but not all of them. I am not sure how the procession goes or who takes part in it. The Lord who handles the speech still kneels down because the Lord Commissioner represents the Sovereign. The Commons are summoned in the usual way.

I am not sure how the speech is read (on the Queen's behalf - "Her Majesty's Government", or in her stead - "My Government...") since I wasn't able to find the texts of the speeches in those years. I'd say the former scenario is more plausible. No member of the Royal Family took part in the procession in 1959 or 1963, although it is possible some were seated in the Chamber.

One more thing: when the Lord Chancellor reads the Speech, he does so not from the Throne but standing on one of the lower steps of the Throne.
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  #270  
Old 04-11-2013, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vkrish View Post
Thanks a lot, Artemisia. Now, what actually happens in that scenario..
Will that person still come in procession?
Does the Lord handing the speech still kneels down and hand him?
Does the Black Rod go to Commons and say "the Lord Commissioner summons this ..."?
And while reading the speech does he say "My Lords/My government etc." or "Hm's lords, HM's government, etc"..?
Did Princess Margaret/Kents/Gloucesters attend those Openings?
I wish there was a video of that proxy opening..
Yes, Princess Margaret, Kent's and Gloucester's used to attend the State Opening of Parliament. You can find the videos on ITN Source or British Pathe.

It used to be a beautiful event with members of the royal family attending and in their regalia. Now that Charles & Camilla will be attending next months Opening. I hope they will continue attending.
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  #271  
Old 04-11-2013, 11:43 PM
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I think the question was did Margaret, the Gloucesters and the Kents attend when HM was herself absent from the ceremony. We know they attended when she herself opened Parliament.
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  #272  
Old 04-11-2013, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post

Yes, Princess Margaret, Kent's and Gloucester's used to attend the State Opening of Parliament. You can find the videos on ITN Source or British Pathe.

It used to be a beautiful event with members of the royal family attending and in their regalia. Now that Charles & Camilla will be attending next months Opening. I hope they will continue attending.
I think the question was more did Margaret, the Gloucesters, or the Kents attend for Her Majesty when she couldn't - when she was pregnant with Andrew and Edward.
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  #273  
Old 04-11-2013, 11:46 PM
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That's how I understood the question as well, although my apologies if I were mistaken.
Anyway, as I said in my previous post, none of the Royals attended in 1959 and 1963. They usually, but not always, were in attendance in years before and after.

Quote:
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It used to be a beautiful event with members of the royal family attending and in their regalia. Now that Charles & Camilla will be attending next months Opening. I hope they will continue attending.
I definitely agree with you; hopefully, Charles and Camilla's attendance is not a one-time occurrence.
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  #274  
Old 04-11-2013, 11:50 PM
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I wondered about some of your questions as well. I can answer some but not all of them. I am not sure how the procession goes or who takes part in it. The Lord who handles the speech still kneels down because the Lord Commissioner represents the Sovereign. The Commons are summoned in the usual way.

I am not sure how the speech is read (on the Queen's behalf - "Her Majesty's Government", or in her stead - "My Government...") since I wasn't able to find the texts of the speeches in those years. I'd say the former scenario is more plausible. No member of the Royal Family took part in the procession in 1959 or 1963, although it is possible some were seated in the Chamber.

One more thing: when the Lord Chancellor reads the Speech, he does so not from the Throne but standing on one of the lower steps of the Throne.
Thanks Artemisia, I wish from now they start the precedent of letting the heir to open the Parliament instead of some unknown official..Just like Trooping the Colour.
(BTW I secretly wonder The Queen planned her pregnancies such that they wont come in way for her riding at Trooping.. This shows that she cares more for Trooping rather than Parliament Opening, or maybe bcos Princess Margaret riding at Trooping is not that desirable..just musing..)

And yes my earlier question about other royals attendance was particularly about '59 and '63.
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  #275  
Old 04-11-2013, 11:58 PM
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Sorry if I misunderstood the question.
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  #276  
Old 04-13-2013, 07:13 AM
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I believe that Charles was always one of the Lords Commissioners until 1999. He never actually attended to my knowledge, but he was listed alongside the other commissioners in the letters patent and theoretically could have shown up. I don't think he would actually be prohibited from being appointed now, as he's still a member of the Privy Council, and I believe any Privy Counsellor can sit on the woolsack even if they aren't in the House of Lords. (Jack Straw, the first non-peer to be the Lord Chancellor in quite some time, did so when he headed the commission to confirm the election of John Bercow as speaker.)

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Originally Posted by vkrish View Post
Does the Black Rod go to Commons and say "the Lord Commissioner summons this ..."?
Yes. It happens twice at the first sitting of a Parliament (the commissioners summon the Commons to tell them to elect a speaker and then summon them back to tell them that the Queen approves), at the end of each session of parliament when it's prorogued, and sometimes in the middle of a session if there's a change in speakers of the House of Commons. It also used to be done every time Royal Assent was given to a bill passed by Parliament, but that was changed as it took up too much time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemisia View Post
I am not sure how the speech is read (on the Queen's behalf - "Her Majesty's Government", or in her stead - "My Government...") since I wasn't able to find the texts of the speeches in those years. I'd say the former scenario is more plausible.
The prorogation speech is read as "my government," so I think the speech to open parliament would be as well. It's announced as "Her Majesty's speech in Her Majesty's own words" even though monarchs haven't personally prorogued Parliament in a very long time.

Edit: Here's the 1959 speech. It uses "my government" and even "my dear husband" and "my cousin."
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  #277  
Old 04-13-2013, 08:08 AM
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The other thing to remember in both 1959 and 1963 the heir apparent was a minor - so it could be a different scenario now when the heir apparent is old enough to be King in his own right.

Also remember that the State Opening back then was in November not May so the pregnancies happened between Troopings and sensibly over her quieter months and holiday times - fortunately. Family planning wasn't as advanced as it is these days (although considering my baby cousin recently announced her first pregnancy after telling eveyone she wanted at least a year of married bliss, preferably two, before getting pregnant now finds herself planning to celebrate her first wedding anniversary with a two month old baby in tow - not everything goes as planned with babies even today and we are much further on in knowledge then they were then).
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  #278  
Old 04-20-2013, 07:27 PM
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In the May issue of Vanity Fair there is an interview with the Marquess of Cholmondeley. He briefly discusses his role as Lord Great Chamberlain and the opening of Parliament. Apparently he rather regrets the Queen's decision that he should no longer walk backwards when leading the procession. He thought it was a nice bit of tradition. I thought it interesting that the thrones occupied by HM and the DofE are not kept at Westminster but in fact are kept in a state room at Lord Cholmondeley's estate Houghton Hall in Norfolk. There is a picture of them in the article. The thrones are only brought to Westminster when needed for the opening of Parliament.
Since HMs Sandringham estate borders on Houghton I suppose she could pop over to check on the thrones if she wanted to.
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  #279  
Old 04-27-2013, 05:59 PM
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Video: Prorogation Ceremony-
Parliament has been prorogued (suspended) now until 8th May when Her Majesty officially reopens Parliament:
Parliament Prorogued, Queen To Reopen On 8th May
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  #280  
Old 04-29-2013, 11:17 AM
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william never were with the queen in the state opering of parliament?? (he was in 1981 in diana's bump)
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