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  #81  
Old 07-02-2007, 01:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
It is not the government that ends up paying, it is the poor old British taxpayer. The country are not her landlords, tenants pay rent which helps with repairs, HM lives rent and tax free!
The situation with Buckingham Palace is exactly the same as if, for instance, 10 Downing Street or the Houses of Parliament were to be in disrepair. Would you expect the Prime Minister to pay or MPs and Peers to pass a hat around?
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  #82  
Old 07-02-2007, 05:20 AM
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The situation with Buckingham Palace is exactly the same as if, for instance, 10 Downing Street or the Houses of Parliament were to be in disrepair. Would you expect the Prime Minister to pay or MPs and Peers to pass a hat around?
No it is not. The repairs to the buildings you mention are also paid for by the taxpayer, out of the money allocated for their repair, they appear to manage without asking for another million per year to deal with it.

For one of the richest women in Britain to ask for an extra million, on top of the 15 million she already receives is a disgrace. There are people in Britain at the moment, who have lost everything they own to flood damage, how unfeeling towards them is this request!

I can see why the support for a republic is growing in the UK, it would be a shame if the end of the monarchy is brought about by greed.
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  #83  
Old 07-02-2007, 10:14 AM
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It is not the government that ends up paying, it is the poor old British taxpayer. The country are not her landlords, tenants pay rent which helps with repairs, HM lives rent and tax free!
I disagree. The country are indeed her landlords, they own the property and she works for them as well. Damned hard too, I might add. As for rent, the government collects huge amounts of revenue from tourists who journey to London just to see Buckingham Palace.

I strongly doubt that HM & her staff would make such a request if it weren't absolutely necessary. The timing might be off but when is there ever a good time to request extra funds for anything? Someone is bound to find fault *Looking at Skydragon*
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  #84  
Old 07-02-2007, 11:04 AM
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I disagree. The country are indeed her landlords, they own the property and she works for them as well. Damned hard too, I might add. As for rent, the government collects huge amounts of revenue from tourists who journey to London just to see Buckingham Palace.
I strongly doubt that HM & her staff would make such a request if it weren't absolutely necessary. The timing might be off but when is there ever a good time to request extra funds for anything? Someone is bound to find fault *Looking at Skydragon*
A landlord is someone you pay rent to, which HM does not. I don't believe the government helps itself to revenue from tourists either, some may pay VAT, but no more than they would in their own countries. Most people tie in a visit to BP as part of a visit to the UK, believe it or not, there is more in the UK and London than just BP!

It is an understatement to say the timing is off!

I always find it rather sad when people resort to Personal digs, they are never a good way to get your message across are they!
Queen faces snub over £1m plea for crumbling palaces | the Daily Mail

Tight security for Queen Elizabeth touring Scotland

Police tightened security for Queen Elizabeth II during her tour of Scotland in response to a spate of failed car bombings in London and Glasgow, police said Monday

Tight security for Queen Elizabeth touring Scotland - Yahoo! News UK
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  #85  
Old 07-02-2007, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
No it is not. The repairs to the buildings you mention are also paid for by the taxpayer, out of the money allocated for their repair, they appear to manage without asking for another million per year to deal with it.

For one of the richest women in Britain to ask for an extra million, on top of the 15 million she already receives is a disgrace. There are people in Britain at the moment, who have lost everything they own to flood damage, how unfeeling towards them is this request!

I can see why the support for a republic is growing in the UK, it would be a shame if the end of the monarchy is brought about by greed.
Yes, they appear to manage, but often they don't. All public buildings need overhauls sometimes. One of the "richest women in Britain" isn't asking for a million pounds to go and spend for fun, she's asking to repair a state-owned home she never wanted to live in. Had it been up to her, she'd be living (at least she would have when she had a young family) in Clarence House and driving down the mall for state business only. I think if it was completely up to her where she lived, she would be at Sandringham or Balmoral (which she funds herself) most of the time. She can't do that though, because it would be entirely inconvenient for the Prime Minister and other ministers to travel that far so often. She stays in Buckingham Palace because it's a convenient office, not because she knows she can do whatever she wants with it and let the people pay. People also seem to forget that the money that comes out of the Crown Estates also more than manages to cover this rather small (comparatively speaking) expense. If the monarchy ends, the Crown Estates also cease to give money to the taxpayers. After the treasury takes royal expenses out of that money in the form of the civil list, it all goes into the country's fund.
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  #86  
Old 07-02-2007, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by BMC
but if BP & other state owned places were wrecks no one would visit them
There are not just palaces and state owned buildings in London and the UK, a lot of people come for the nightlife, the theatre, the shopping, music halls, etc. Many of the castles in the country are falling down, it doesn't stop the tourists spending their money in the area.
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Sorry if you think it was a dig- but it also shows you dont know me very well, I was just teasing
I don't know you at all!
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  #87  
Old 07-02-2007, 12:07 PM
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People also seem to forget that the money that comes out of the Crown Estates also more than manages to cover this rather small (comparatively speaking) expense. If the monarchy ends, the Crown Estates also cease to give money to the taxpayers. After the treasury takes royal expenses out of that money in the form of the civil list, it all goes into the country's fund.
If the monarchy ends, HM would be subject to UK tax, which would more than cover any supposed shortfall. The civil list was stopped a few years ago.
She has offices and apartments for all the family at BP, private accomodation at BP, Windsor, Sandringham, Holyrood & Balmoral, to name a few. Careful planning instead of employing some of the sycophants that worm their way in, who employ someone else to advise them that they have been advised would save enough money to do the repairs.

I want to keep the monarchy, but a faux pas of this sort, can do irreparable damage.
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  #88  
Old 07-05-2007, 11:24 AM
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i can see both sides of the argument regarding the money requested to repair BP. i've visited London twice and absolutely loved it. it's amazing to see such history. here...if a building makes it to 100 years old it's considered very old but see buildings that are hundreds of years old is amazing. i know that BP isn't as old as some buildings but it would be a shame to see it crumble to pieces. perhaps the solution would be for both the gov't and the crown to share the expense??? after all, private home owners dont' get a lot of assistance from gov't (if any at all) for home repairs however, BP is rich with history and should be looked after.
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  #89  
Old 07-06-2007, 02:40 PM
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On the subject of money....

Ok.....not to be a royal pain.....and not that I want to start this discussion again....but I wanted to throw my 1/2 penny into the conversation...and none of my friends in the "real world" care all that much about the Royal Family etc.

I think that the Government, via the taxpayers, should pay for the repairs. After reading the article, I don't think it is that much money to ask for. *holds up hand to forestall shouts* I know, I know. 1 million pounds is a butt load of money, for someone like me, who has about $200 in her bank account. As you probably notice, that is in American dollars, I live in America. Now, please don't tell me that because I'm not paying your taxes I can't possibly know what you are going through, and that your life is so miserable because you live in England and are going to be the ones to pay for this restoration/ work. Before you tell me that, have you looked at what MY taxes have paid for? I'll trade you any day. Of course though, I'm going to have complaints about my country, just as everyone has some complaint about wherever they are currently residing. No country is perfect.

Back to the reason I don't think it is that much money. Have you seen how large Buckingham Palace is? I mean have you really looked at it? Its huge! Are there larger buildings? Sure there are. But still! And this money isn't just going to BP, it is going for other places also.

As for the "There are people suffering" point, aren't there always? I am certainly all in favor for people with expendable money donating to charities and all around "sharing the wealth" but why just put the pressure on the rich people? Why not put pressure on your neighbors? I mean look at how much it costs to keep the royal family. 62p. Thats all. Now imagine if everyone were to put another 62p towards a charity, or towards those people that have lost their homes. Really, it isn't that much money per person! It only seems that the less fortunate are brought up whenever someone who has money asks for more. I find that to be really sad. If you think that someone deserves help, do something about it! Don't just whine about how those in power/ those who have money aren't spending it the way you want them too. You should hold yourself to the same standard. If you want to help, give up something that is a treat for you once in awhile, like a chocolate shake at McDonalds. Put that money towards someone who has lost everything.

Now, as for the Government via the taxpayers being the landlord thing....this is true for the most part. And if you look at the basic landlord tenant agreements found pretty much everywhere in the world, then you find that the landlord takes care of the building, not the tenant. Now, if there was damage caused by the RF specifically, then they should pay for it, not the Gov. However, if it is basic upkeep, (although some of this sounds like it is more than just basic) then the RF should not pay for it.

Another thing (my goodness you must being wondering if I will ever shut up!) So you can't go into this building that you technically own whenever you want. Are BP and Windsor Castle the only buildings where this is the case? It seems like there are plenty of Government owned buildings that you pay takes to upkeep yet cannot wander around in at your leisure. Are you complaining about those? No, you don't seem to be. Double standards anyone? So they live there too. Big deal. The Queen does a ton of work there! It makes sense for her to live there. I'm not sure how I feel about the no rent thing though. I haven't thought that one out yet.

Now, Tourism.......face it, London may have many great things to offer other that the Royal family, but that is what tons of people are there to see! I can get theatre here. I can get movies here. Is it better in London? Yep. But what I don't have here is your Royal Family. They are unique. Theatre and art is not. They are humans, and yes, there are other RF's, *gasp* but this is the BRF we are talking about. Which other family has given us this much entertainment? (Which, btw, is not why I like the Queen....I'm not in it for the entertainment value) But that is what a lot of people are interested in....


Have I covered everything? Probably not. Are there holes in my thoughts? Oh I'm sure there are. But I am not saying that what I've said is 100% right! I am not trying to be argumentative, which I can be, but thats not what I am doing here. I am typing my opinion, so that others can read it, respond, and a discussion can be had. So don't get all snippy about a subject that you will forget about in a few years just because you are the one paying the taxes. Don't yell at other people just because their thoughts are not the same as yours. Point out the things that are different and then go from there. If there is a fact that is blatently wrong, correct it nicely, not in a "Since you have a fact wrong your whole opinion is wrong" manner. No one knows everything. Basically I'm asking nicely, if I have any FACTS wrong, please correct them, with sources.

Oh! Forgot one thing! I think P. Charles spends waaaaaaaaaaay to much money.

^_^ *peace offering* Sorry if I have ruffled any feathers, it was not intentional. And I suppose that was more than 1/2 penny worth....it was more like $10 no?
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  #90  
Old 07-06-2007, 03:32 PM
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No offence taken and my life in the UK is far from miserable.

Very many people, ordinary taxpayers have already contributed to the various funds set up for the flood victims. Many who are on the poorest wages have donated food, blankets or even house room to people affected by the flood.

It leaves a sour taste in peoples mouths when, with a crumbling health service, transport service & education system to name a few, they are being asked to give even a penny more of their money to one of the richest families in the UK. Just imagine what that extra million could do to improve schools and hospitals! With some pensioners living below the poverty line, shouldn't we be looking to pay them extra, many served their country in WW2. Service personel who are asked to give their lives for this country live in substandard housing, are they not more deserving of one warm, dry house in good repair.

Yes many tourists do go to see BP, so perhaps they should put a begging bowl outside the gates. Brits tend to go for some of the 'events', most of the time a large percentage don't bother.

If the place is that bad, set up a restoration fund/lotto ticket scheme. Why should taxpayers in Nottingham pay through their taxes, for tourists to see this building, or the queen to have her offices and during the week accomodation there. They rightly want the taxes they pay to improve their lives.

When you become a landlord you charge rent, to cover repairs to the property, therefore if you are not paying rent or tax you should not expect to get any repairs paid for. There was a big enough fuss when it was suggested that the Windsor repairs should be paid for by the taxpayer. Every time HM pleads poverty, the republicans gain ground.

I am happy in the UK and wouldn't contemplate leaving, I have always supported the monarchy and even though Charles uses 'tax breaks' to pay less tax, the majority of his spending comes, like many people, through careful investments and properly managed funds. The money he claims from the privy purse covers all travel costs incurred when the government asks him to represent them. Could he cut down, yes and he should, but what he spends is a drop in the ocean compared to HM and the hangers on.
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  #91  
Old 07-06-2007, 03:45 PM
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True, true, and like I said, I'm not sure about the whole not paying rent thing. Really it is one of those darned if you do darned if you don't situation.........let it crumble, tourism goes down, economy goes down......have the taxpayers pay everything.....have the RF pay everything....... things like that. I think the RF should chip in some, and I do agree that another 1 million pounds could do a lot of good somewhere else as well. There just isn't an easy solution to this.


It's great that ordinary people are donating, but there are still thousands of people that don't! If you really think about it, if everyone would donated to their maximum compacity, anything the RF or any other rich people donated would just be a bonus. Then you could say snootily "Who needs their money anyway" LOL!!! Can you tell I love getting people to help those who are less fortunate? ^_^


I understand about the Nottingham people for example, but on the other hand, there is a bit of a filter effect. Even though tourism might not directly effect them, it still has its benefits. For example, someone who benefited from tourism brings that money to another place, spends it there, and so on and so forth.

As for the large percentage not bothering, isn't that true in most places/ countries though? Once you've lived in one place for awhile, you want to go somewhere else and see places other than the one you live in.

I love the idea of a begging bowl Too perfect.

Oh! I just read that the Queen is going to be a Grandmother again!! Too fun. I may be a bit behind, but my internet has been screwy. Gives me warms fuzzies though.
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  #92  
Old 07-06-2007, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by QueenMaharet View Post
It's great that ordinary people are donating, but there are still thousands of people that don't! If you really think about it, if everyone would donated to their maximum compacity, anything the RF or any other rich people donated would just be a bonus. Then you could say snootily "Who needs their money anyway" LOL!!! Can you tell I love getting people to help those who are less fortunate? ^_^
I understand about the Nottingham people for example, but on the other hand, there is a bit of a filter effect. Even though tourism might not directly effect them, it still has its benefits. For example, someone who benefited from tourism brings that money to another place, spends it there, and so on and so forth.
On the whole, those that make their money from tourism tend to spend their loot abroad.

The timing was not thought out and insensitive to say the least, I still think that HM should make a sizeable contribution to the repairs as she enjoys the major benefits. If all the mega rich people like HM, JK Rowling, Tony Blair etc donated 500k each, then all the repairs could be carried out at once and no need to burden the taxpayer further. The government could cancel the 2012 Olympics and use that money!

I'm all for encouraging people to help those less fortunate, but I think you are a believer in the old saying "The poor get poorer, while the rich get richer".
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  #93  
Old 07-06-2007, 04:44 PM
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If I believe in that saying, can I be one of the rich people? I would love to see richer people than myself donate huuuuuuuuuuge sums of money, and I am certainly all for trying to get them to do that, but I think it is far more likely that I will be able to get my family to donate, put a bug up their butt, have them transfer that bug and get the common people to donate then it would be for me to get my president, for example, to donate. Anyhoo, dreams of an idealist!

This may seem totally random....but I wish the Queen would change some of her clothes. I love how she has looked lately, but when she wears those one piece dresses, it just does not look as nice. They are like sheets with minimal tailoring. I love the dress coats and hats.....but yeah. I'm not complaining overall, but some of her outfits I would like to torch. ^_^ Blue, well, slightly darker blue is a good color on her I think. I also thought the bright pink with black accents was very classy.
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Old 07-06-2007, 04:46 PM
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I think these days, now Buckingham Palace is open to the public every summer, people might put up less resistance to helping pay than when it was firmly closed to the public and we had the "while it's standing it's theirs but as soon as it starts to fall down it's ours" mindset at work. I'm glad the Queen overruled her mother and allowed Buckingham Palace to be opened to the public in order to help finance the Windsor repairs; just saying that the royal palaces are public buildings is all very well, but it seemed contemptuous to say it when the palaces were closed to the public but the public were expected to pay for upkeep.
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Old 07-06-2007, 04:48 PM
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I totally agree. If the Queen pays for the repairs she should actually say, "Sod you lot, you're not coming in anymore". When it was her house, she should have paid for it. It's now open to the public and they either take an increase in ticket prices or they pay half.
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  #96  
Old 07-06-2007, 05:07 PM
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Definitly increase the ticket prices, then those who want to, pay for it. If it's that popular an increase to £50 for the tour should solve the repair cost problem. I still like the idea of the begging bowl!
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  #97  
Old 07-06-2007, 07:50 PM
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I think the queen should increase ticket prices at the royal residences to pay for part of it. On the one hand she is not technically owner of these buildings in the sense that they are held by her in trust for the nation, or something like that right?, but then really its only her fam that gets to enjoy it, even if they open BP in the summer, so really the queen should at least put up part of the $. I also dont understand how such a building would be allowed to fall into such a state. I love the queen but i think she should find a way to fund this without going to the taxpayer! Maybe she should also open BP at the weekends when she's not there or over the christmas holidays.
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  #98  
Old 07-07-2007, 02:28 AM
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Put up the prices?? A single adult ticket for the walk through BP is already fifteen pounds a head. Now don't get me wrong - I've paid it and will do so again, but if you put them up TOO high people stay away and your revenue goes down.

(Oh yes and re the comment about taxpayers in Nottingham - having seen what the local Council have spent millions on for the revamp of our Market Square - personally I'd rather it had gone to restore BP: PS - my avatar picture was taken in that very Market Square...)
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Old 07-07-2007, 05:44 AM
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HM's personal fortune, excluding the crown jewels and the royal palaces is estimated at £360 million. That excludes money in bank accounts, but includes a substantial share portfolio.

People in the UK have to pay, the same as tourists, to visit a tiny portion of a property they supposedly own. Even a small increase to £25 would help towards the cost, with a like for like donation from HM. If as people on here are suggesting, the main attraction for coming to London is to visit BP, then they won't mind paying it, after all a ticket for the theatre will cost you four times as much.

GillW, you paid for the market place revamp from your local council tax, another thing HM does not pay!
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Old 07-07-2007, 06:18 PM
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Doesn't the Crown receive a Grant in Aid, specifically earmarked for the upkeep of HM's palaces, and independent of her Civil List monies?

I must say, Skydragon, that I love your begging bowl suggestion.
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