The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Reigning Houses > British Royals

Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #561  
Old 06-07-2012, 02:50 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto (ON) & London (UK), Canada
Posts: 5,261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemisia View Post
As far as William and Harry's personal wealth is concerned, it's actually a pretty easy calculation. They took into account money left to the brothers by the Queen Mother, Diana, Princess of Wales, Earl Spencer, and Lady Fermoy. I believe they got the sums wrong though, since by all accounts, Harry received more than his brother (since William is going to be pretty well provided in future as the Duke of Cornwall, and later - the King).
We only know the value of Diana's estate, and probably the other Spencer estates as they would have been probated. We have no idea how much the QM put in trust for her grandchildren and great grandchildren. The rest IMO is entirely speculation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbarn67 View Post
I thought the Queen Mother's estate was in arrears when she died? So does that mean her bequeaths were not handed out or did Charles or the Queen pay off the debt?
For tax reasons the trusts were established several years before her death, which diminshed her liquid assets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemisia View Post
William and Harry received inheritance from the Queen Mother, same as her other great-grandchildren. According the her will...
How do you know what the terms of her will was? Royal wills are not public documents in the UK. Anything left in a will to other than the monarch would have been taxable in the hands of her heirs.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #562  
Old 06-07-2012, 02:56 PM
Molly2101's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: England, United Kingdom
Posts: 2,577
I am shocked at Edward, Andrew and Anne's supposed wealth. I imagine they will inherot more once their parents pass but they have more than i thought they did. Did the Queen Mother leave Edward's children money? I know they were not born, or Sophie was probably not in Edward's life at the time of their creation, but surely she assumed Edward would have had children.
__________________

__________________
"I am yours, you are mine, of that be sure. You are locked in my heart, the little key is lost and now you must stay there forever."
Written by Princess Alix of Hesse and by Rhine in the diary of her fiance, Tsarevich Nicholas.
Reply With Quote
  #563  
Old 06-07-2012, 02:58 PM
Artemisia's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Yerevan, Armenia
Posts: 5,425
Quote:
Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
How do you know what the terms of her will was? Royal wills are not public documents in the UK. Anything left in a will to other than the monarch would have been taxable in the hands of her heirs.
I based my information on the report in BBC News.

Of course, since royals wills aren't available to general public, a lot of it may be speculation; nevertheless, the terms of the Queen Mother's will are generally agreed to be in these lines by all sources I've read.
Reply With Quote
  #564  
Old 06-07-2012, 03:06 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto (ON) & London (UK), Canada
Posts: 5,261
In other words speculation, especially since they seem to infer that some of her wealth came from accumulation of her civil list income. Unless royal wills and trust deeds are made public no one will ever know the true value of royal holdings or division of assets. Even less reliable than the annual rich lists compiled by The Times and Forbes.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #565  
Old 06-10-2012, 10:33 PM
Gentry
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Springfield, United States
Posts: 81
I don't think this has been asked before. Do all Dukes receive an income from their duchy? I know Charles does from his but how about William and Andrew? Is that the advantage to being a Duke as opposed to a Prince? And why is Edward "just" an Earl instead of a Duke?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #566  
Old 06-10-2012, 10:56 PM
HRHHermione's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Boston, United States
Posts: 2,039
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocketmom
I don't think this has been asked before. Do all Dukes receive an income from their duchy? I know Charles does from his but how about William and Andrew? Is that the advantage to being a Duke as opposed to a Prince? And why is Edward "just" an Earl instead of a Duke?
No, of those dukedoms, only the Duchy of Cornwall has an associated income stream. And Edward is an Earl because that's the title he reportedly requested and because it's intended that he inherit the Duke of Edinburgh title when Prince Philip passes away.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #567  
Old 06-11-2012, 12:16 AM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 8,495
Some Dukedoms have income attached e.g. Devonshire but the royal dukedoms don't have land or other means of income. Of the royal dukes there are only two with income attached - The Duke of Cornwall (Charles) and The Duke of Lancaster (The Queen). These estates provide the private income for there two individuals from which the other royal dukes are also supported.

Edward is an Earl because the intention is that, if the position arises, Edward will be given the title of Edinburgh after both his parents are dead and Charles is King but we will have to wait and see what happens with that title over the next couple of decades.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #568  
Old 06-11-2012, 08:43 AM
Artemisia's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Yerevan, Armenia
Posts: 5,425
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocketmom View Post
I don't think this has been asked before. Do all Dukes receive an income from their duchy? I know Charles does from his but how about William and Andrew? Is that the advantage to being a Duke as opposed to a Prince? And why is Edward "just" an Earl instead of a Duke?
There is a huge difference between a Duchy and a Dukedom.
- A duchy is implies a territorial domain, within which the duke has actual land holdings.
- A dukedom is the title of duke, a rank of nobility, and is not necessarily attached to a duchy.

Currently, there are only two Duchies in the United Kingdom - the Duchy of Cornwall and the Duchy of Lancaster. Both are "Crown bodies', regulated by Acts of Parliament.
- The Duchy of Lancaster owns about 46,500 acres of land, including the Lancaster Castle. It is administered by The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, who is usually a member of the British Cabinet. The income generated by the Duchy goes directly to the Monarch of the time (incidentally, the Monarch has always been The Duke of Lancaster since 1413).
- The Duchy of Cornwall owns about 141,000 acres of land, which constitutes about 2% of the County of Cornwall. The Estate of the Duchy has lands elsewhere as well, including in Devon and Dartmoor. The income from the Duchy is meant to support the Heir Apparent to the Throne, and goes directly to him.

Currently, there are only seven Royal Dukes, of which only two, as mentioned above, have Duchies, not just Dukedoms:
- Duke of Lancaster (Queen Elizabeth II)
- Duke of Cornwall and Duke of Rothesay (Prince Charles)
- Duke of Edinburgh (Prince Philip)
- Duke of Cambridge (Prince William)
- Duke of York (Prince Andrew)
- Duke of Gloucester (Prince Richard)
- Duke of Kent (Prince Edward - the son of Prince George, Duke of Kent)

All non-royal Dukes have Dukedoms, but not Duchies.


In regards to Prince Edward, it was decided that he will only be an Earl, and not royal Duke, for the time being because it is anticipated he will eventually inherit the title of the Duke of Edinburgh from his father. If he were created a Duke at the time of his wedding, it'd mean Edward would end up with two Dukedoms one day.
Reply With Quote
  #569  
Old 06-11-2012, 09:04 AM
Gentry
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Springfield, United States
Posts: 81
Thanks, everyone, for your replies. I'm learning lots here.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #570  
Old 06-12-2012, 08:30 AM
Gentry
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Singapore, Singapore
Posts: 73
Sovereign Grant Act 2011

One of the provisions of this act is that the revenues from the Duchy of Cornwall go to the heir to the throne, regardless of whether he or she is the Duke of Cornwall.

Sovereign Grant Act: main provisions - HM Treasury

For instance, if the heir is the monarch's daughter, she won't be Duke of Cornwall (because only a man can be Duke of Cornwall).

Similarly, if Prince Charles were to predecease the Queen, William would be heir to the throne, but Andrew would be Duke of Cornwall (since the Duke of Cornwall is always the eldest surviving son of the monarch).

The new act ensures the revenues go to the heir, whether or not he or she is the DoC.

One aspect, however, struck me as odd. If the Duke of Cornwall is a minor, 90% of the revenues go to the monarch and 10% go to the heir to the throne. That's if the DoC is a minor: not if the heir is a minor. e.g. suppose the heir is the monarch's grandson, and the Duke of Cornwall is the heir's younger uncle, a minor. Even though the heir is not a minor, he would only get 10% of the revenues, because the DoC is a minor!

Makes me think they might have made a mistake.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #571  
Old 06-12-2012, 09:23 AM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 8,495
The big mistake you are making is missing the fact that there are two criteria to be Duke of Cornwall not one.

To be DoC you have to be both the heir apparent to the throne AND the eldest surviving son of the monarch so Andrew can't be DoC while Charles, William, Harry or their descendents are alive.

If Charles dies William would become heir apparent although he wouldn't be the eldest son of the monarch but Andrew would be the eldest son but not Duke of Cornwall so no Duke of Cornwall would exist.

If William's first born child is a girl she won't be Duchess of Cornwall in her own right but will be heir apparent so her younger brother won't become Duke of Cornwall as he won't be the heir to the throne.

Charles is both heir apparent and eldest son of the monarch so he is Duke of Cornwall. William will met both criteria when the Queen dies and Charles succeeds but if Charles dies in the present reign there will be no Duke of Cornwall to replace Charles as no one would meet both criteria.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #572  
Old 06-12-2012, 07:30 PM
Gentry
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Singapore, Singapore
Posts: 73
Thanks, Iluvbertie. That's very helpful.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #573  
Old 06-12-2012, 11:00 PM
Gentry
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Singapore, Singapore
Posts: 73
BTW, I've now looked at the Bill itself (rather than the summary). The provision about what to do if the Duke of Cornwall being a minor comes first, and THEN comes the statement that if the heir to the throne is not the Duke of Cornwall, they still get the money that would otherwise go to the Duke of Cornwall, so I suppose that makes it clear enough that the same provision about the case of minority also applies to a non-DOC HTTT.

Ah well, good to know.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #574  
Old 06-21-2012, 07:38 AM
RoyalistRiley's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 502
Ross Lydall - 20 per cent pay rise for Queen after Crown Estate posts record profits : Ross Lydall | Blogs | Evening Standard
__________________
God Save the Queen! Advance Australia Fair!
"Life is a game in which the player must appear ridiculous" - The Dowager Countess of Grantham, Downton Abbey
http://twitter.com/FutureSirRiley
Reply With Quote
  #575  
Old 06-21-2012, 08:49 AM
EIIR's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Somewhere, United Kingdom
Posts: 2,624
Ugh, this is going to become a big issue among the usual left-wing media and commentators. The government decided to replace the civil list and all those other grants and replace it with 15% of the CE's profits. The royal family have no control whatsoever over what the CE does. Due to the excellent management by the people who run the CE, they've managed to make bigger profits, even at a time of recession.

I'm sure the Queen will put some of this increase into the reserves to cover the possibility that the CE's profit falls, leading to the monarchy receiving less money than they require to fund the Queen's costs as head of state.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #576  
Old 06-21-2012, 10:13 AM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ipswich, United Kingdom
Posts: 678
I think that's the plan anyway. That any surplus go away for rainy day.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #577  
Old 06-21-2012, 12:55 PM
EIIR's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Somewhere, United Kingdom
Posts: 2,624
I've also heard rumours that the surplus might be used to start the renovation work that's required on Buckingham Palace in particular. They're going to think carefully about any long-term plans that they have.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #578  
Old 06-22-2012, 01:49 AM
RoyalistRiley's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 502
The left will whinge about anything and everything in my experience. I personally think that this is a much better system for the Royal Family. Better to get 15% of Crown Estate profits than a lump sum that is fixed once a decade. If the Crown Estate can turn a profit in these economic times, I'm sure this arrangement will be quite good for all concerned.
__________________
God Save the Queen! Advance Australia Fair!
"Life is a game in which the player must appear ridiculous" - The Dowager Countess of Grantham, Downton Abbey
http://twitter.com/FutureSirRiley
Reply With Quote
  #579  
Old 06-22-2012, 08:18 PM
padams2359's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: New Orleans, United States
Posts: 388
I think there should be another 10% allotted to go towards palace long term repairs, roofs, etc.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #580  
Old 06-23-2012, 09:31 AM
RoyalistRiley's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 502
Quote:
Originally Posted by padams2359 View Post
I think there should be another 10% allotted to go towards palace long term repairs, roofs, etc.
That would be a good idea. I think everyone forgets that the Queen doesn't personally own Buckingham Palace and Windsor Castle and that simply keeping such residences in a suitable condition is very costly. But I still think by and large they get a pretty good deal under the new arrangements.
__________________

__________________
God Save the Queen! Advance Australia Fair!
"Life is a game in which the player must appear ridiculous" - The Dowager Countess of Grantham, Downton Abbey
http://twitter.com/FutureSirRiley
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
british royal family, civil list, finances


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wealth and Finances of the Spanish Royal Family hrhcp Royal Family of Spain 109 02-06-2014 06:00 AM
Costs and Finances of the Belgian Royal Family Marengo Royal Family of Belgium 64 07-27-2013 05:49 AM
Royals and Wealth, Costs and Finances kcc Royal Life and Lifestyle 384 09-28-2012 02:27 AM
Wealth of The German Royal/Princely Houses kcc Royal Families of Germany and Austria 12 12-30-2007 04:35 AM




Additional Links
Popular Tags
abdication birth charlene chris o'neill crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess letizia crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit current events engagement fashion genealogy grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri hohenzollern infanta leonor infanta sofia jewellery jordan king abdullah ii king carl xvi gustav king constantine ii king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander luxembourg nobility olympics ottoman pom president hollande president komorowski prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince constantijn prince felipe prince floris prince maurits prince pieter-christiaan princess aimee princess anita princess astrid princess beatrix princess charlene princess claire princess letizia princess marilene princess mary princess mary fashion princess of asturias queen anne-marie queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen rania queen silvia queen sofia royal royal fashion russia sofia hellqvist spain state visit the hague wedding



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:43 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]