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  #261  
Old 12-28-2017, 06:50 AM
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I donít think itís delusional per se. There are clear advantages to the idea but they seem to forget that the world has changed a lot since Britannia was decommissioned. Itís a faster world and a world where every minute detail of every tiny issue is over examined and pulled to pieces on social media. Itís quicker for the Royal Family to fly than it is for them to sail. There are security implications that didnít exist before. And whether itís funded by a lottery or by the Tax payer, itíll only bring about unnecessary criticism for both Palace and Downing St. Itís a lovely idea but one thatís best shelved for a while.
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  #262  
Old 12-28-2017, 06:50 AM
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Indeed, I agree Duc.

We had a beautiful Royal Yacht years ago, well recognised around the world, a much loved yacht, symbolic mainly of the fact that we are or were a sea-faring nation and enabling a different form of travel around the globe for the Queen.

Then we got rid of it without a care for anything on the basis that it was only fit for the knackers yard. Now we want a new one apparently for a purpose I do not believe it can achieve- how does that look?

If anything, funds should be raised to get the old Royal Yacht Britannia up and running again
- more realistically symbolic I would have thought.
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  #263  
Old 12-28-2017, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Gaudete View Post
I don’t think it’s delusional per se. There are clear advantages to the idea but they seem to forget that the world has changed a lot since Britannia was decommissioned. It’s a faster world and a world where every minute detail of every tiny issue is over examined and pulled to pieces on social media. It’s quicker for the Royal Family to fly than it is for them to sail. There are security implications that didn’t exist before. And whether it’s funded by a lottery or by the Tax payer, it’ll only bring about unnecessary criticism for both Palace and Downing St. It’s a lovely idea but one that’s best shelved for a while.
It is really desilusional. Look at the Germans. Their economy booms through the rooftops. Year after year they close the books with billions of Budget Surplusses. No Presidential Yacht Germania in sight...

Are the Tories really thinking that the sight of King Charles III and Queen Camilla arriving with the Britannia in the port of Lisbon will help Brexit Britain anyhow? And that would not have been achieved when King Charles and Queen Camilla landed at Lisbon Airport?



And: as long as there are painful shortages in the NHS, food banks, rough sleepers, the opioid crisis in the British cities, the draconic cuts in the Armed Forces, the sight of the royal family sailing around on the Britannia 2 will be the dream target for every opponent of the Tory government: "Now we know the priorities of the Tories: decommission HMS Bulwark and HMS Albion because of Budget cuts. And then commission a new Royal Yacht for one of the world's richest families."

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  #264  
Old 12-28-2017, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
It is really desilusional. Look at the Germans. Their economy booms through the rooftops. Year after year they close the books with billions of Budget Surplusses. No Presidential Yacht Germania in sight...

Are the Tories really thinking that the sight of King Charles III and Queen Camilla arriving with the Britannia in the port of Lisbon will help Brexit Britain anyhow? And that would not have been achieved when King Charles and Queen Camilla landed at Lisbon Airport?



And: as long as there are painful shortages in the NHS, food banks, rough sleepers, the opioid crisis in the British cities, the draconic cuts in the Armed Forces, the sight of the royal family sailing around on the Britannia 2 will be the dream target for every opponent of the Tory government: "Now we know the priorities of the Tories: decommission HMS Bulwark and HMS Albion because of Budget cuts. And commission a new Royal Yacht."

I think you're reading far too much into this. This idea is often touted by the backbenches of the Conservative Party for various reasons. It appeared first in opposition as a gift for the Golden Jubilee, it appeared again for the Diamond Jubilee, now it's appeared again connected to our exit from the European Union. For some it's sentimental, for others its because they're royalists and feel it's wrong that Britannia was so unfairly scrapped and for others, it's seen as a genuine extension of the FCO which Britannia undoubtedly was when it was in service.

But you need to take Europe out of the equation. You can't compare the British Monarchy to the German Presidency and also, we're not talking about Lisbon. When the idea is put forward by those who are connecting it to our exit from the European Union, it's done with a view for longer journeys around the Commonwealth and to countries which we have no trade deals with yet but which we'll be approaching for such arrangements. Practically yes, it would be much easier and quicker to fly to these places. Would the government of Singapore or Australia be more inclined to give us a trade deal if there was a Royal Yacht? I don't think so. Would it be an impressive display of what Britain has in a symbolic way? Absolutely.

Delusional is too strong a word and it's wrong to present this as Conservative Party policy. It isn't. There are many advantages to it, there are also many disadvantages. It won't happen for one reason and one reason only - cost. Even if it was funded by a lottery, the actual running costs would have to be met by the government and that isn't something the government of today is ever going to consider. It's a nice idea, it would be lovely to see a Royal Yacht back in service but it's hard to justify one even if it would be a little diplomatic bonus in Britain's back pocket.
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  #265  
Old 12-28-2017, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Gaudete View Post
I think you're reading far too much into this. This idea is often touted by the backbenches of the Conservative Party for various reasons. It appeared first in opposition as a gift for the Golden Jubilee, it appeared again for the Diamond Jubilee, now it's appeared again connected to our exit from the European Union. For some it's sentimental, for others its because they're royalists and feel it's wrong that Britannia was so unfairly scrapped and for others, it's seen as a genuine extension of the FCO which Britannia undoubtedly was when it was in service.

But you need to take Europe out of the equation. You can't compare the British Monarchy to the German Presidency and also, we're not talking about Lisbon. When the idea is put forward by those who are connecting it to our exit from the European Union, it's done with a view for longer journeys around the Commonwealth and to countries which we have no trade deals with yet but which we'll be approaching for such arrangements. Practically yes, it would be much easier and quicker to fly to these places. Would the government of Singapore or Australia be more inclined to give us a trade deal if there was a Royal Yacht? I don't think so. Would it be an impressive display of what Britain has in a symbolic way? Absolutely.

Delusional is too strong a word and it's wrong to present this as Conservative Party policy. It isn't. There are many advantages to it, there are also many disadvantages. It won't happen for one reason and one reason only - cost. Even if it was funded by a lottery, the actual running costs would have to be met by the government and that isn't something the government of today is ever going to consider. It's a nice idea, it would be lovely to see a Royal Yacht back in service but it's hard to justify one even if it would be a little diplomatic bonus in Britain's back pocket.
It can also give a wrong image. King Charles III and Queen Camilla of a cracking United Kingdom, sailing in all splendour to self-conscious and booming India. What king of neo-colonial message is that?

"Let us do business" is then the next question from the British to the Indians (or the Canadians, or the Australians, or whoever). The response will be: "What trade can we do with you and Europe, which we do not already do in this globalized world?" And it will become painful that -aside of the splendour of the Britannia 2- the UK realizes it has not so much to offer as all the assets of the British economy are foreign owned anyway.

My advice would be: spare the money for the Britannia 2 and invest in innovation, in correcting the completely disbalanced services-economy into an economy which has a subtantial innovative production capacity.
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  #266  
Old 12-28-2017, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
It can also give a wrong image. King Charles III and Queen Camilla of a cracking United Kingdom, sailing in all splendour to self-conscious and booming India. What king of neo-colonial message is that?

"Let us do business" is then the next question from the British to the Indians (or the Canadians, or the Australians, or whoever). The response will be: "What trade can we do with you and Europe, which we do not already do in this globalized world?" And it will become painful that -aside of the splendour of the Britannia 2- the UK realizes it has not so much to offer as all the assets of the British economy are foreign owned anyway.

My advice would be: spare the money for the Britannia 2 and invest in innovation, in correcting the completely disbalanced services-economy into an economy which has a subtantial innovative production capacity.
But that's getting into the pros and cons of Brexit which isn't for this forum. I don't think writing us off as the poor man of Europe destined to shiver and starve is very fair either. A new Royal Yacht won't appear any time soon. Neither will it ever become Conservative Party policy. As to the rest of your post? Time will tell.
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  #267  
Old 12-28-2017, 08:32 AM
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The bare idea that a King Charles or a King William embarking with the Britannia 2 in Toulon, in Rotterdam or in Bilbao is "helping" Brexit Britain is too desilusional for words.
So very true! As if other Europeans would rush to buy more English cheese or choose a British software firm because Prince Andrew now has a boat to putter around on.
Seriously, this sounds like the kind of argument a New York Real Estate Developer would suggest for national economic growth.
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  #268  
Old 12-28-2017, 08:33 AM
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Again, itís not Europe that will be our priority once we leave. That was kinda the whole point.
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