Royal Security

[Iluvbertie]

I remember reading that when Charles went to Cambridge his RPO decided to study for his own degree and earnt a 2.1 to Charles 2.2

 

[Roslyn]

I remember reading that when Charles went to Cambridge his RPO decided to study for his own degree and earnt a 2.1 to Charles 2.2

Ha! I think I knew that but had forgotten. The RPO got upper second class honours and Charles got lower second class honours. A good reminder that it is unwise to assume that the protection officers are not as intelligent and capable intellectually as their charges. And, of course, the British RF is not known for its intellectual might.

 

[Denville]

They're not there to provide gudiance on intellectaul issues, but they need a reasonable basic education to do the job...

 

[Dman]

Queen's guard officer is filmed snorting a line of powder off a ceremonial sword | Daily Mail Online

 

[Rudolph]

A specialist police team are monitoring more than 400 stalkers who could be a threat to the royal family, new figures reveal.

Officers and psychiatric nurses are visiting the most “high risk” fanatics and 11 have been arrested in the last three years.

The specially trained Fixated Threat Assessment Centre are also combing online sources to identity potential threats.

Read More@ Royal family threatened by more than 400 stalkers as crack police team calls on most 'high risk' - Mirror Online

 

[Rudolph]

A specialist police team are monitoring more than 400 stalkers who could be a threat to the royal family, new figures reveal.

Officers and psychiatric nurses are visiting the most “high risk” fanatics and 11 have been arrested in the last three years.

The specially trained Fixated Threat Assessment Centre are also combing online sources to identity potential threats.

Referrals to FTAC involving those obsessed with members of the royal family have almost doubled in two years, from 73 in 2014 to 137 for the first eleven months of 2016.

In total 439 cases were sent to be monitored since 2013 including 20 deemed “high risk”.

Read more: Royal family threatened by more than 400 stalkers as crack police team calls on most 'high risk' - Mirror Online

 

[Alliec76]

So I have a question. We know he has gone to see Meghan numerous times and stayed with her at her home. Her neighbors have said they usually know when he's there because of all the black SUV's. And these were strictly personal trips to see her. So does his protection have to accompany him even on personal trips? It sounds like they do. (He had an RPO on their trip to Botswana. And that was definitely a personal trip. Awkward!,LOL!) Where do they stay? Sleep in the car? I'd think it would be super awkward if they camped out in Meghan's guest room. Now I'm really curious about this. I know here in the State's anyone with Secret Service protection is protected all the time. Personal, professional, doesn't matter.

 

[Somebody]

Same for a high ranking royal such as Harry. He has 24 h protection - and they stay in a hotel nearby.

 

[Curryong]

Same for a high ranking royal such as Harry. He has 24 h protection - and they stay in a hotel nearby.

I'm not so sure that Harry's RPOs always stay in nearby hotels even on personal trips. I read that during the recent African holiday the Protection Officers (and on some parts of the trip, local forces too) had stayed in tents along with Harry and Meghan.

RPOs certainly were on the houseboat on an African river trip he and Chelsy took, I remember, and there was a report that they were there in Chelsy's London flat once when an alarm went off in the middle of the night, caused by it being accidentally being switched on near the bed. That was probably embarrassing for the couple when the RPOs rushed in.

I believe that two of them at a time do set up quarters in Meghan's Toronto home (probably in the spare bedroom) when Harry is there. They have to be near him at all times, eating, sleeping, shopping, enjoying himself. If they were in a hotel nearby that would defeat the purpose.

 

[Somebody]

I'm not so sure that Harry's RPOs always stay in nearby hotels even on personal trips. I read that during the recent African holiday the Protection Officers (and on some parts of the trip, local forces too) had stayed in tents along with Harry and Meghan.

RPOs certainly were on the houseboat on an African river trip he and Chelsy took, I remember, and there was a report that they were there in Chelsy's London flat once when an alarm went off in the middle of the night, caused by it being accidentally being switched on near the bed. That was probably embarrassing for the couple when the RPOs rushed in.

I believe that two of them at a time do set up quarters in Meghan's Toronto home (probably in the spare bedroom) when Harry is there. They have to be near him at all times, eating, sleeping, shopping, enjoying himself. If they were in a hotel nearby that would defeat the purpose.

Looks like I didn't express myself clearly. He has more than 2 RPOs with him at any given trip (I seem to remember normally 5). Of course, the two that are on duty will not be in a hotel but near Harry (probably in a car in front of her house or at any other nearby but non/least-intrusive place). However, normally they stay at a (4 or 5 star) hotel when they are not on duty. If there is no hotel (for example on a boat trip or during a safari - if there is no lodge nearby) they will have to find a different solution, such as camping

 

[Curryong]

Message Delete.

I did say 'two at a time' in my post, though. And the POs on duty certainly used to stay in Chelsy's flat and at her family's home in Africa. When Harry has top flight accommodation overseas his RPOs are there too. They are sometimes with Harry and girlfriend in the same car too on short trips so it's fairly intrusive though they try not to let it be.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

Same for a high ranking royal such as Harry. He has 24 h protection - and they stay in a hotel nearby.

Off duty RPOs stay at the hotel--on duty are just that-on duty and would be hanging out watching around Meghan's house if Harry was there.

 

[Countessmeout]

I'm not so sure that Harry's RPOs always stay in nearby hotels even on personal trips. I read that during the recent African holiday the Protection Officers (and on some parts of the trip, local forces too) had stayed in tents along with Harry and Meghan.

RPOs certainly were on the houseboat on an African river trip he and Chelsy took, I remember, and there was a report that they were there in Chelsy's London flat once when an alarm went off in the middle of the night, caused by it being accidentally being switched on near the bed. That was probably embarrassing for the couple when the RPOs rushed in.

I believe that two of them at a time do set up quarters in Meghan's Toronto home (probably in the spare bedroom) when Harry is there. They have to be near him at all times, eating, sleeping, shopping, enjoying himself. If they were in a hotel nearby that would defeat the purpose.

They stay as close to Harry as possible. When Harry and Chelsy were on a boat, the closest to them would also be on the boat. The same goes for a hotel. If Harry is staying in a hotel or resort, they would stay in the same one. Obviously in a different room. Here we are talking Meghan's apartment, and does she have the extra space to house a RPO? There would obviously be an RPO on duty closer then the hotel but each RPO is not on duty 24 hours.

Yes Meghan has a spare room but they are meant to be as unintrusive as possible. And those on duty would not be sleeping anyways so no need for it. Staying at Chelsy's family home is like the houseboat situation. Chelsy's parents own a huge homestead out in the African bush. It would not make sense or be practical for the RPOs off duty to be off in some city in a hotel. The family homestead would have more room then Meghan's house.

 

[Curryong]

I think Chelsy's apartment in London was at least two-bedroomed, possibly more. I didn't mean that any RPOs would be sleeping at Meghan's house, but a spare bedroom could have at least a table, TV, couple of chairs in it even temporarily, while the couple were in the living room, kitchen. I suppose Meghan is probably used to their near presence now, as his exes were.

 

[Countessmeout]

I think Chelsy's apartment in London was at least two-bedroomed, possibly more. I didn't mean that any RPOs would be sleeping at Meghan's house, but a spare bedroom could have at least a table, TV, couple of chairs in it even temporarily, while the couple were in the living room, kitchen. I suppose Meghan is probably used to their near presence now, as his exes were.

Yes but what does that have to do with the discussion

The complaint people have about the stop over is the cost of RPO. Unless the RPO are going to bunk all together in that room, they are going to need a hotel room. Chelsy's flat in London doesn't have that issue. The RPO's not on duty would simply be home. In Toronto you don't have that option.

 

[Curryong]

A poster asked earlier on whether the RPOs were always around wherever Harry was, and mused on just how intrusive that would be (and it would be) to his relationships.

 

[MARG]

. . . The complaint people have about the stop over is the cost of RPO. Unless the RPO are going to bunk all together in that room, they are going to need a hotel room. Chelsy's flat in London doesn't have that issue. The RPO's not on duty would simply be home. In Toronto you don't have that option.

Well if the complaints were as "sensible" as the ones in the article about Prince Andrew, you just can't take it seriously. Only two trips were personal, the rest were working or official. I think a lot of nit-pickers got all snippy because he always takes his golf clubs . . . billions of dollars of trade deals were and still are finessed on the golf links.

Harry isn't shirking his obligations and I suspect the shortfall for extra travel and hotel accommodation for RPO's is picked up by Prince Charles. However, with the way things seem to be ramping up I am unsure whether staying at her home is actually feasible anymore and perhaps Meghan joins Harry and entourage at a Hotel overnight or for the weekend.

 

[Countessmeout]

Well if the complaints were as "sensible" as the ones in the article about Prince Andrew, you just can't take it seriously. Only two trips were personal, the rest were working or official. I think a lot of nit-pickers got all snippy because he always takes his golf clubs . . . billions of dollars of trade deals were and still are finessed on the golf links.

Harry isn't shirking his obligations and I suspect the shortfall for extra travel and hotel accommodation for RPO's is picked up by Prince Charles. However, with the way things seem to be ramping up I am unsure whether staying at her home is actually feasible anymore and perhaps Meghan joins Harry and entourage at a Hotel overnight or for the weekend.

No argument from me that they are ridiculous

But its not a question if Harry's trips are work or not. There is no doubt. No one is arguing he is going to Chicago for work. It is about making a stop over in Toronto on the way back. Even if the rest of the trip is not on tax dollars, the RPOs are. So when he stops in Toronto, he is costing more tax money. Now if it was published that Charles was paying for the hotel costs of the RPO, then perhaps it would stop the talk. That isn't usually something the royals cover.

Yes, like his daughters, Andrew gets the bum wrap. Probably why they get it. All of his trips get turned into holidays or golf trips. Technically golf could be considered on the job as he is actually patron of a number of golf charities and organizations. Royals all have some down time on longer trips.

Toronto would be IMO only option for Meghan and Harry right now. Its mid week, she will be in middle of filming. I don't see her doing a 24 hour trip to see him in Chicago. She wouldn't attend the event anyways, unless she had a private invite from the Obamas in her name.

 

[kimsan]

No argument from me that they are ridiculous

But its not a question if Harry's trips are work or not. There is no doubt. No one is arguing he is going to Chicago for work. It is about making a stop over in Toronto on the way back. Even if the rest of the trip is not on tax dollars, the RPOs are. So when he stops in Toronto, he is costing more tax money. Now if it was published that Charles was paying for the hotel costs of the RPO, then perhaps it would stop the talk. That isn't usually something the royals cover.

Yes, like his daughters, Andrew gets the bum wrap. Probably why they get it. All of his trips get turned into holidays or golf trips. Technically golf could be considered on the job as he is actually patron of a number of golf charities and organizations. Royals all have some down time on longer trips.

Toronto would be IMO only option for Meghan and Harry right now. Its mid week, she will be in middle of filming. I don't see her doing a 24 hour trip to see him in Chicago. She wouldn't attend the event anyways, unless she had a private invite from the Obamas in her name.

This is something I don't understand (I'm American) wouldn't the RPO cost money even if this was a personal trip? I was under the impression that RPOs were always tax payer funded.

 

[Somebody]

Yes, they are. And somehow some people seem to think that combining business and private is the problem. However, if Harry would fly back to London and leave the next day for a weekend in Toronto, the costs are higher and it would be fine...

 

[muriel]

But its not a question if Harry's trips are work or not. There is no doubt. No one is arguing he is going to Chicago for work. It is about making a stop over in Toronto on the way back. Even if the rest of the trip is not on tax dollars, the RPOs are. So when he stops in Toronto, he is costing more tax money. Now if it was published that Charles was paying for the hotel costs of the RPO, then perhaps it would stop the talk.

> It does not matter whether the trip is work or private, security does have to be provided. This is the responsibility of the government.
> In my mind, there is no question of Charles or anybody reimbursing the state for the costs of security for private trips. It is the Home Office that determines who has what level of security, and they pay for it.
> The cost of security cannot and should not determine the movement of members of the BRF in their private time. For example, Camilla has been in India over the last week on a private trip. This was just before the start of the official trip to Singapore and Malaysia. Should she not have spent the few days in India because of cost of security involved? I don't think so.

 

[sndral]

My recollection of the complaints about Harry's stopover in Toronto following one of his tours was that the tab press got all up in arms and bitchy because he gave them the slip - they'd thought he'd return directly to London and his camp did nothing to disabuse them of this notion and when they found out he surfaced in Toronto they were ticked and went after him criticizing the fictional 'cost'.
It didn't make sense at the time, once his tour duties were fulfilled, IMO he was free to go where ever he wanted & owed the press no details of his private plans & if the government has assigned full time RPOs to be w/ him 24/7 then so be it.

 

[Iluvbertie]

This is something I don't understand (I'm American) wouldn't the RPO cost money even if this was a personal trip? I was under the impression that RPOs were always tax payer funded.

The cost is in the accommodation, travel and meal expenses not their salaries.

The teams are at least six person teams with all on duty for 8 hours a day. When on duty they are with the principal.

When not on duty and in the London they can go home and that is fine but when the principle is away from home the non-on-duty officers have to be put up in first-class hotels (single occupancy by the way) and provided with a decent meal allowance for all meals. The non-on-duty officers also have to travel first class.

Those actually on duty travel in the same class as the principle - so if Harry travels cattle class then so do two of the officers. They will stay in the same accommodation e.g. when Eugenie stayed in a hostel in India so did two of her RPOs (she still had them then) but the rest of the team were in the closest five-star hotel.

If a royal is away from the UK for more than a week the teams also change over with first class airfares in each direction for each team.

My recollection of the complaints about Harry's stopover in Toronto following one of his tours was that the tab press got all up in arms and bitchy because he gave them the slip - they'd thought he'd return directly to London and his camp did nothing to disabuse them of this notion and when they found out he surfaced in Toronto they were ticked and went after him criticizing the fictional 'cost'.
It didn't make sense at the time, once his tour duties were fulfilled, IMO he was free to go where ever he wanted & owed the press no details of his private plans & if the government has assigned full time RPOs to be w/ him 24/7 then so be it.

The agreement however between the royal family and the government is that they will return to the UK after official tours and not undertake private tours on the back of those official tours. This is a result of Andrew's perceived abuse of this approach of adding on days to the end of official tours for personal benefits. When they do this they have a lot of the expenses of the private visit paid for by the taxpayers due to the cost of the public part of the tour and that is deemed unacceptable for the BRF these days.

Harry is therefore not 'off official duties' until his return to the UK is recorded in the CC and so he did break the agreed rules when he decided to make his stopover in Toronto. Given the RPOs were also lead to believe they were returning to the UK and then had to make a side-tour he showed a lack of respect for them as well.

 

[cepe]

I agree that once the agreement was put in place it has to be adhered to. It cuts out the debate/disagreement particularly within UK media.

 

[hel]

Also, to be fair, it wasn't that Harry's people did nothing to disabuse the reporters of the assumption that he was going home. They straight up said that he was going straight back to London, shortly before he got on a flight to Toronto.

I mean, I'm on the "I hope these crazy kids make it work" train, but that wasn't cool and the press had every right to be unhappy. They need to be able to trust the KP staff to tell them the truth.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Which means the KP staff have to be told the truth by the royals to begin with.

 

[Somebody]

The agreement however between the royal family and the government is that they will return to the UK after official tours and not undertake private tours on the back of those official tours. This is a result of Andrew's perceived abuse of this approach of adding on days to the end of official tours for personal benefits. When they do this they have a lot of the expenses of the private visit paid for by the taxpayers due to the cost of the public part of the tour and that is deemed unacceptable for the BRF these days.

Harry is therefore not 'off official duties' until his return to the UK is recorded in the CC and so he did break the agreed rules when he decided to make his stopover in Toronto. Given the RPOs were also lead to believe they were returning to the UK and then had to make a side-tour he showed a lack of respect for them as well.

So, if I understand it correctly royals can go on a private trip before (for example, Camilla before the Singapore trip and Harry before Invictus) but not after an official engagement? A curious rule but if it exists they better adhere to it and spend all their private time in advance...

The cost is in the accommodation, travel and meal expenses not their salaries.

The teams are at least six person teams with all on duty for 8 hours a day. When on duty they are with the principal.

When not on duty and in the London they can go home and that is fine but when the principle is away from home the non-on-duty officers have to be put up in first-class hotels (single occupancy by the way) and provided with a decent meal allowance for all meals. The non-on-duty officers also have to travel first class.

Those actually on duty travel in the same class as the principle - so if Harry travels cattle class then so do two of the officers. They will stay in the same accommodation e.g. when Eugenie stayed in a hostel in India so did two of her RPOs (she still had them then) but the rest of the team were in the closest five-star hotel.

If a royal is away from the UK for more than a week the teams also change over with first class airfares in each direction for each team.

Why would the RPOs need to fly first class? Business class is more than sufficient I would think and 4 star hotels are also quite decent... And I also expect the meal allowance to be rather generous, not just decent. However, all of that is a decision of the government, so any complains should be directed to them and not the BRF.

Is cattle class a class below economy class ?

 

[jacqui24]

Speaking of security, this topic kind of got dropped with the announcement of the engagement.

In Camilla Tominey's story last Sunday, which foretold this btw, she mentioned that Meghan had security detail with her on Tuesday last week and the vehicle used to to transport her is typical of RPO. Camilla also reported that her sources are saying a female close protection officer is shadowing Duchess of Cambridge's bodyguard in preparation to become Meghan's bodyguard. Does that mean she's been assigned 24 hour protection as she was on her personal time and had security?

I know Kate had 24 hour protection, but Sophie Wessex and Tim Laurence only has it when they are on royal duty because the threat against them isn't deemed as high. Who determines the risk level for each individual members of the royal family?

I've heard awhile back that Prince Harry is determined to have higher risk because he is a member of the royal family that's served in Afghanistan in the past. But I'm not sure if that would automatically mean his fiancee and eventually wife would have higher risk than Sophie and Tim?

 

[Osipi]

As I see it, Harry and Meghan both confirmed that they had been officially engaged for a couple of weeks prior to the announcement. It would then make sense that once engaged, Meghan would have been assigned protection 24/7.

We also know that several details about the upcoming wedding were already pretty much ironed out and ready to be announced. We, the public, were just the last to know and things were already in place and implemented.

 

[Curryong]

I guess as far as having RPOs around it's the threat level as assessed by experts within the security services. I know Harry had six RPOs following him at one stage, shortly after his last return from Afghanistan. The Queen, Prince Philip, and the Wales's and the Cambridges would get RPO protection at all times as a matter of course. So will Harry and Meghan as they are also high profile royals. Sophie and Tim aren't considered so much at risk.