The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Reigning Houses > British Royals

Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #101  
Old 04-28-2008, 02:34 PM
magnik's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 3,681
Maybe it help?

List of Dukes in the Peerages of the British Isles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dukes in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dukes of the peerage of the united kingdom
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 05-09-2008, 03:38 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: East Moline, United States
Posts: 7
Albany and Cumberland

The Dukedoms of Albany and Cumberland were "suspended" during World War I because their current holders were supporting the German cause. However, I understand the possibility exists that they could be restored and that male heirs are still alive. The first Duke of Albany was Queen Victoria's youngest son, Leopold, while the current Cumberland Dukedom traces back to one of Queen Victoria's uncles.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 05-09-2008, 05:39 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Monterey, United States
Posts: 2,325
So who could claim them now??
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 05-09-2008, 05:58 PM
morhange's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Springfield, United States
Posts: 570
Prince Andreas of Saxe-Coburg is the claimant to the Dukedom of Albany, and Prince Ernst August of Hannover is claimant to the Dukedom of Cumberland.
__________________
His sense of responsibility is not less than yours or mine. How could we tell right from wrong as simple people in any kind of situation? How could we know that our courage, loyalty and lives were not misused for evil purposes?
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old 05-09-2008, 06:00 PM
morhange's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Springfield, United States
Posts: 570
Actually, I'd forgotten, I don't believe royal dukedoms care about morganatic marriages, so the heir to Albany is Hubertus Prinz von Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha
__________________
His sense of responsibility is not less than yours or mine. How could we tell right from wrong as simple people in any kind of situation? How could we know that our courage, loyalty and lives were not misused for evil purposes?
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old 06-05-2009, 09:25 PM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 8,495
Quote:
Originally Posted by HM Queen Catherine View Post
The Duchy of York was first created in 1385, and was a landed dukedom until it merged with the Crown in 1461, when the holder became Edward IV. There have also been several Earls of York in medieval times. Since 1461, it has traditionally been the title for the second son of the Sovereign.

It can of course be inherited if the holder happens to have a son to inherit.

If Prince Andrew were to remarry and have a son that son would inherit the title and in a couple of generations, like Gloucester and Kent will have with the next holders, not have a royal designation.

It is is unusual that no holder of the Duke of York title has actually passed it to a son since the middle ages with each successive creation either having only daughters e.g. Prince Andrew or having no legitimate children at all e.g. Prince Frederick brother of George IV or merge with the crown when the holder becomes king e.g. George V and George VI.

I doubt that it would ever become Harry's title as it can't be recreated until after Andrew's death and I would assume that Harry would already have a title considering that Andrew is only 49. With the longevity of hisp parents he could easily live another 40 years making Harry in his mid-60s before the title becomes vacant. Even William's own second son may have a title by then.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 06-05-2009, 11:48 PM
HM Queen Catherine's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Rendsburg, Germany
Posts: 303
I totally agree with you. It will be interesting to see which dukedom befalls Prince Harry, because like you, I doubt he would inherit York for a number of years.

I'm sure he will be created Duke of something before the death of Andrew, and there are several for the royal family to choose from.

Cambridge, Sussex, Albany, and Clarence are all extinct royal titles. There were quite a few suggestions to make Prince Edward either Duke of Cambridge or Duke of Sussex upon his marriage, but he was created Earl of Wessex instead. Since he will become the Duke of Edinburgh on the death of his parents, that particular title will not be given to Prince Harry.

Most probably out of the running is Duke of Windsor, for obvious reasons, and Duke of Connaught and Strathearn, since an Irish peerage has not been revived or granted since their independence in 1922. Albany is disputed, since the male heirs of the 2nd Duke can petition for restoration of the title, and same is true for the Duchy of Cumberland.

Personally, I like HRH Prince Henry, The Duke of Sussex!
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old 06-06-2009, 12:57 AM
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: ***, United States
Posts: 16,897
I wonder if he'd be created Earl of Something like Edward, in the expectation that eventually he'll take the Duke of York title probably during William's reign. On the other hand, it probably makes more sense for that title to wait for William's second son. At least that means it'll be longer before the York title leaves the royal family. I think it's a shame that the Gloucester title, with all its royal history, will no longer be royal when the present Duke dies.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old 06-06-2009, 03:17 PM
Lumutqueen's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Carlton, York, United Kingdom
Posts: 17,127
Quote:
Originally Posted by HM Queen Catherine View Post
Since he will become the Duke of Edinburgh on the death of his parents, that particular title will not be given to Prince Harry.
How may I ask do you know this?
I haven't heard it as fact that the title Duke of Edinburgh is definitely being given to Prince Edward after his parents death. Also why will it not be given to Harry?
__________________
We Will Remember Them.
Reply With Quote
  #110  
Old 06-06-2009, 03:41 PM
wbenson's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: -, United States
Posts: 2,238
It is of course impossible to bind future monarchs on this type of action (so it will always be strictly possible that it won't go this way), but in 1999 the Palace stated that upon the death of the current Duke and the Queen, Edward would be created Duke of Edinburgh. The official website (rather sloppily) alludes to this:

Quote:
Prince Philip’s youngest son, Prince Edward, will take the title on his death.
__________________
TRF rules and FAQ
Reply With Quote
  #111  
Old 06-06-2009, 03:48 PM
Lumutqueen's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Carlton, York, United Kingdom
Posts: 17,127
Quote:
Originally Posted by wbenson View Post
It is of course impossible to bind future monarchs on this type of action (so it will always be strictly possible that it won't go this way), but in 1999 the Palace stated that upon the death of the current Duke and the Queen, Edward would be created Duke of Edinburgh. The official website (rather sloppily) alludes to this:
Thank you for this information. I had known that it was sort of said and around about, but the way it was phrased above i thought something had been released this year that it was a definite. I also still don't understand why Prince Harry could not inherit the title first or after Edward.
__________________
We Will Remember Them.
Reply With Quote
  #112  
Old 06-06-2009, 05:42 PM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 8,495
Quote:
Originally Posted by lumutqueen View Post
Thank you for this information. I had known that it was sort of said and around about, but the way it was phrased above i thought something had been released this year that it was a definite. I also still don't understand why Prince Harry could not inherit the title first or after Edward.
Currently the heir to the Edinburgh title is Charles.

The stated intention is that Charles will inherit the Edinburgh title on the death of his father.

If that happens while the Queen is still alive then Charles will add the Edinburgh titles to his present titles and Edinburgh will merge with the crown when Charles becomes king.

If Philip outlives the Queen then the Edinburgh title will pass to Charles, who is already king, and so will automatically merge with the crown.

It is then intended to recreate the Edinburgh title for Edward.

However:

If Charles predeceases the Queen then the title would pass to William, who presumably would honour his grandmother's stated wish but....

If Charles and William predecease the Queen then that sitution reaches Harry, who again presumably would honour his grandmother's stated wish but...

There is a scenario whereby the title is not available for anyone to regrant it to Edward:

William marries and has a daughter (or a couple of daughters) but no son.
Charles, William and Philip die before the Queen leaving the daughter (or eldest daughter) as the Queen's heir - then Harry inherits directly the Edinburgh title and it doesn't merge with the crown.

The current succession to the Edinburgh title is the same as for the throne in the first four people.

So:

Philip dies
Charles dies
William dies
Queen dies
Harry inherits and it merges with the crown

add a daughter in their for William and it changes

Philip dies
Charles dies
William dies leaving the daughter as heiress apparent (can't be replaced by a son)
Queen dies
Harry becomes Duke of Edinburgh and Edward misses out.

The deaths above can happen in any order so long as the three men die before the Queen and William has a legitimate daughter and no sons.

Of course Edward could also inherit the Edinburgh title directly from his father - if

Charles, William, Harry and Andrew all predecease Philip (or again William and/or Harry leave only legitimate daughters) then the title would pass to Edward by direct inheritance (along with the Merioneth and Greenwich titles).

Harry can't inherit the title, as it is currently set up, from Edward as Edward has a son who would inherit it assuming that a new regrant would use the standard Letters Patent of 'heirs male of the body'. It would be strange to set LPs for a new title that grants the father only the title and not allow it to go to his son when his other titles - Wessex and Severn - will go to James.

There is no way that BP can say that Edward would definitely get the Edinburgh title as they are fully aware of the inheritance possibilities and so know that there is a chance that

a) Edward won't get it at all or
b) that he could get it through direct inheritance or
c) the most likely that he will get it as a regrant when it merges with the crown at Charles' accession.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #113  
Old 06-07-2009, 07:51 AM
Lumutqueen's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Carlton, York, United Kingdom
Posts: 17,127

Hang on so your telling me that Charles is next to get the title Duke Of Edinburgh, when Prince Phillip dies, and if Charles is king it merges with the crown?

What about Harry or Edward then, they're just left with nothing while the King and heir get titles??

William will become Prince Of Wales when his dad is king, there is little doubt about that.

But Charles will then also become Duke Of Edinburgh aswell as king.

If the succesion to the title of DofE is the same as the line of the succesion to the crown then why does it say on the royal website that it will go to Edward?

Styles and titles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Of course Edward could also inherit the Edinburgh title directly from his father - if

Charles, William, Harry and Andrew all predecease Philip (or again William and/or Harry leave only legitimate daughters) then the title would pass to Edward by direct inheritance (along with the Merioneth and Greenwich titles).
So your saying that Edward will only get the title IF Charles, William, Harry an Andrew die before Phillip?

List of titles and honours of Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It also says here that after Edwards wedding it was announced that he would become the Duke of Edinburgh.
__________________
We Will Remember Them.
Reply With Quote
  #114  
Old 06-07-2009, 08:15 AM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Chicago, United States
Posts: 283

It would be up to Charles when he is king to regrant the title of Duke of Edinburgh to his brother Edward.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #115  
Old 06-07-2009, 08:50 AM
Marsel's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 966
Quote:
Originally Posted by lumutqueen View Post

Hang on so your telling me that Charles is next to get the title Duke Of Edinburgh, when Prince Phillip dies, and if Charles is king it merges with the crown?

What about Harry or Edward then, they're just left with nothing while the King and heir get titles??
Prince Charles is the Duke of Edinburgh’s eldest son, so he will inherit the title, unless his father survives him., in which his eldest son (William) will inherit it.
Prince Harry will most probably be granted a Dukedom upon his marriage. If he marries within the lifetime of Queen Elizabeth, letters patent will be issued by his grandmother, allowing his children (if they are born during the Queen's lifetime) to enjoy a royal and princely status to which they otherwise would not have been entitled.

Quote:
If the succesion to the title of DofE is the same as the line of the succesion to the crown then why does it say on the royal website that it will go to Edward?

Styles and titles

So your saying that Edward will only get the title IF Charles, William, Harry an Andrew die before Phillip?

It also says here that after Edwards wedding it was announced that he would become the Duke of Edinburgh.
It has been announced that the title of the Duke of Edinburgh is intended to eventually go to Prince Edward. It is possible if:
1) Charles, William, Harry and Andrew all die without legitimate male heirs
2) If the title merges with the Crown, it can be then recreated for Edward.

Since the second option is the most probable one, it is almost certain that the Queen, Prince Philip, Prince Charles and Prince Edward have all agreed to act accordingly - that is, Charles (or William, if Charles predeceases his mother or father) with recreate the title for Edward once he is King.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #116  
Old 06-07-2009, 11:29 AM
HM Queen Catherine's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Rendsburg, Germany
Posts: 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsel77 View Post
It has been announced that the title of the Duke of Edinburgh is intended to eventually go to Prince Edward. It is possible if:
1) Charles, William, Harry and Andrew all die without legitimate male heirs
2) If the title merges with the Crown, it can be then recreated for Edward.

Since the second option is the most probable one, it is almost certain that the Queen, Prince Philip, Prince Charles and Prince Edward have all agreed to act accordingly - that is, Charles (or William, if Charles predeceases his mother or father) with recreate the title for Edward once he is King.
There two other possibilities regarding the succession to the Dukedom of Edinburgh.

First:
If Prince Philip dies before the Queen, then both Prince Charles and Prince Andrew can formally renounce their rights to the Dukedom for themselves and their heirs, which would leave Prince Edward next in line to become Duke of Edinburgh. In this case, Edward would become the 2nd Duke of Edinburgh of his father's creation, rather than having a new creation granted to him.

It is even possible that both Charles and Andrew have done this already, in compliance with the wishes of their parents to give the title to Edward.. but we can't be sure of that.

Second:
The letters patent for the Duchy of Edinburgh could be amended to have the title revert to the crown upon the death of Philip. In which case, if the Queen outlives him it will be in her gift to re-create the Duchy for Edward. Or, if Philip outlives the Queen, then it would be Charles that would re-create the title for his brother.

Both of these scenarios are a lot less complicated than having Charles inherit Edinburgh, wait to become King, have his sons and Prince Andrew renounce their claim to the Duchy and then re-create the title for Edward.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #117  
Old 06-07-2009, 12:46 PM
Marsel's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 966
You are quite right, both options are possible. If Prince Philip dies before Charles is King, I believe the first option in your post is the most probable outcome, if renouncing the title is possible at all.
Just one note; if Charles inherits the Dukedom of Edinburgh and waits till he is King, I don't think his heirs or Prince Andrew would have to renounce anything, as the title would be merged with the Crown. The Monarch would then be free to have a new creation for Prince Edward.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #118  
Old 06-07-2009, 02:27 PM
Kotroman's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: -, Bosnia and Herzegovina
Posts: 464
Quote:
Originally Posted by HM Queen Catherine View Post
There two other possibilities regarding the succession to the Dukedom of Edinburgh...
Actually, you are wrong.

1) I don't think that anyone can legally renounce the right to succeed to a title. The Peerage Act 1963 only enabled peers to disclaim their titles, but that person's heir could not hold the disclaimed title until the death of the person who disclaimed it. In other words, only Philip can disclaim the title of Duke of Edinburgh, but Charles would still succeed to the title after Philip's death.

2) I've never heard of letters patent being amended. When a change is wanted, simply a new title is created. That's what was done to enable Princess Alexandra of Fife to succeed to the Dukedom of Fife.

In the end, it's less complicated for Edward to be patient and wait for the current Dukedom to merge with the Crown.

Also, Philip holds the Dukedom of Edinburgh. There are only two duchies in the United Kingdom: the Duchy of Lancaster and the Duchy of Cornwall.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #119  
Old 06-07-2009, 05:48 PM
Lumutqueen's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Carlton, York, United Kingdom
Posts: 17,127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kotroman View Post
Also, Philip holds the Dukedom of Edinburgh. There are only two duchies in the United Kingdom: the Duchy of Lancaster and the Duchy of Cornwall.
You are quite right on that one. The Queen is the Duke of Lancaster and Prince Charles is the Duke of Cornwall.
__________________
We Will Remember Them.
Reply With Quote
  #120  
Old 06-07-2009, 09:43 PM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 8,495
The succession to the Edinburgh dukedom follows that of the crown until Andrew because only the heirs male of the body can inherit that title and Philip's heirs are also The Queen's heirs.

If either William or Harry marry during the present reign I suspect that both of them will get their own dukedoms, meaning that at some point in the future William will be known as Duke of Cornwall and xxxx in the same way that George V was known as Duke of Cornwall and York for most of 1901. Only when, and if, William is created Prince of Wales would he cease to have be known usually by both those titles together. There is no guarantee that William will ever be Prince of Wales - although probable given some of the attitudes in Wales it is possible that Charles could be the last holder of that title.

The most likely way that Edward will get the Edinburgh dukedom is through Charles re-creating the title for his brother after he becomes king and the title merges with the crown.

That is what was announced in 1999 - that when the title merged with the crown it would be recreated for Edward.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
dukedom, royal dukes, styles and titles


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Royal Titles Zina Royal Family of Brunei 23 01-10-2014 01:11 PM
Royal, Princely and Comital Titles MAfan Royal Families of Italy 31 11-26-2011 04:30 AM
Moroccan Royal Names and Titles bjanka66 Royal Family of Morocco 61 07-05-2011 07:21 PM
Royal Titles Through the Generations IslandDweller Royal House of Norway 13 02-24-2008 09:26 AM




Additional Links
Popular Tags
abdication birth charlene crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit current events duchess of cambridge dutch royal history engagement fashion grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri hohenzollern infanta leonor infanta sofia jewellery jordan king abdullah ii king carl xvi gustav king constantine ii king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander luxembourg olympic games ottoman picture of the month poland pom president hollande prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince constantijn prince felipe prince floris prince maurits prince pieter-christiaan princess aimee princess anita princess beatrix princess charlene princess claire princess laurentien princess mabel princess madeleine princess margriet princess mary queen anne-marie queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen rania queen silvia royal royal fashion russia sofia hellqvist spain state visit sweden the hague visit wedding winter olympics 2014



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:32 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]