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  #301  
Old 12-03-2009, 04:28 PM
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Why not shorten it? Saying Lady Diana sounds quite formal, and these are tabloid newspapers.
Diana was called Di within her family.

How many times have you personally called Diana. Diana, Princess of Wales? Too formal for the likes of the papers.
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  #302  
Old 12-03-2009, 04:49 PM
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Interestingly, enough, the American press called her Princess Diana...and I noticed the British always referred to her by her proper title, Diana, Princess of Wales.

In terms of Camilla, I do the same thing... I guess jsut from years of doing it. In my head she is thought of as the Duchess of Cornwall.. When I speak about her, it is Camilla Parker Bowles.... Old habits die hard..lol...
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  #303  
Old 12-03-2009, 05:17 PM
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I generally always refer to Diana as either Diana, Princess of Wales or Diana when it is obvious to whom I referring! I absolutely hate the way people always called her Princess Diana....it was totally wrong! I thought her pet name within her family was Dutch?

As for Camilla, I always refer to her as the Duchess of Cornwall or as Camilla when it is obvious to whom I am referring!

I sometimes wander if the Daily Mail isn't perhaps sometimes referring to the Duchess of Cornwall by her former name of Camilla Parker Bowles in some rather perverse tactic to 'keep' reminding its readers of her past! It is utterly incorrect and reeks of subversion IMHO! Then again nothing less would surprise me with that vile, pernicious, chattering-classes obsessed rag that tries to pretend it is not a tabloid!!!

As for individual members of the public....I guess it doesn't matter how you refer to Camilla, as long as you are not using her former name in a way akin to that which I believe the Dail Mail uses!


As for 'Lady Di'......it is absolutely awful and totally inappropriate IMHO for any news presenter/newspaper to use this sobriquet...... even Diana's closest friends never referred to the Princess as Di in public as far as I know. I still can not fathom the audacity of the media to use such a name and the 'Lady' adage was just plain wrong after July 29th 1981 just as 'Princess Diana' was always wrong! I am sorry to have gone on a bit about this but it really does stick in my craw that so many people could never get her name correct!
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  #304  
Old 12-04-2009, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Connie Cutmantle View Post
As for 'Lady Di'..
Actually it isn't wrong to say that she was still Lady Diana Spencer after her marriage because, just like every other woman, she is still able to use her maiden style and titles but if so the Spencer should be included.
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  #305  
Old 12-04-2009, 09:09 AM
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The Palace often referred to her as "Princess Diana" as well, so it's safe to say The Queen never objected since Diana was the mother of a future king and a future Queen Consort.

After the divorce, they referred to her as "The Princess", which technically she no longer was with the loss of her royal rank.
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  #306  
Old 12-04-2009, 02:59 PM
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Regardless of the other additions, princess, Lady, etc. I think it is horrible to call her Di. It sounds exactly like 'die' and given what happened to her, I consider that an awful thing to do.
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  #307  
Old 02-13-2010, 03:45 PM
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Well, what an interesting thread! It took me some time to read through it all, but it was worth it. Afraid I'm going to refer back to some old posts to add some points, or make the odd correction. The length of this thread certainly shows that titles are complicated.

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Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade View Post
Cornwall - the Scottish dukedom automatically bestowed by birth to the eldest son of the sovereign.
I'm surprised nobody picked up on this, as Cornwall is an English Dukedom. It is conferred automatically on the male heir of the Sovereign alongside the Scottish Dukedom of Rothesay (which has the subsidiary titles Earl of Carrick and Baron Renfrew). The male heir (current the Prince of Wales) is also the Great Steward of Scotland and Lord of the Isles.

Interestingly, the Scottish titles are used in Scotland only, with the English titles elsewhere. Since Prince Charles was created Prince of Wales (and Earl of Chester) it is the Princely title he uses outside Scotland, but in Scotland he is known as the Duke of Rothesay (and Camilla as Duchess of Rothesay).

When Charles becomes King then William will automatically become Duke of Cornwall and Duke of Rothesay (plus Duke of X if he is granted another title in the meantime). It requires an Act of Parliament to create him Prince of Wales (and Earl of Chester).


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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
The announcement at the time of Edward's marriage was very clear as seen in this report from the BBC at the time BBC NEWS | Special Report | 1999 | 06/99 | royal wedding | Wessex titles for Edward and Sophie

It has also been agreed that Edward will also become Duke of Edinburgh after the death of his mother, the Queen, and his father, Prince Philip, who currently holds the dukedom.
To bring the Duke of Edinburgh inheritance up again, as pointed out here the title will have to regranted to Edward after the death of both the Queen and Phillip. If Phillip dies first then Charles will be Prince of Wales and hold the Dukedoms of Cornwall, Rothesay and Edinburgh. The only question would be whether he'd use Edinburgh as a title. If he did, it'd likely only be in Scotland (e.g. Duke of Rothesay and Edinburgh).

I think we can realistically expect it be recreated for Edward after it merges into the Crown, to honour the wishes of his parents (unless we reach the hypothetical situation whereby it's inherited by Harry, but the Crown has passes to a daughter of William's). One reason that has not been mentioned is that Edward has become heavily involved in the Duke of Edinburgh's Award scheme. I'd imagine that in time he will become the figurehead for the scheme after his father, so this would be another reason for him to be granted the title (most likely by King Charles III).

One point here though is whether subsidiary titles would be granted with this creation, or if the titles Earl of Wessex and Viscount Severn would be regranted with the Dukedom. If just the Dukedom of Edinburgh is granted, then I believe Edward would be both Earl of Wessex and Duke of Edinburgh (separate creations), so James would still carry the courtesy title Viscount Severn (subsidiary title of Earldom of Wessex). If the Dukedom was granted with new subsidiary titles, then Edward could hold a Dukedom, two Earldoms, a Viscountcy and a Barony!

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Originally Posted by branchg View Post
She only holds it as a style, "Her Majesty the Queen, Duke of Lancaster", while in the duchy on official business.
Whilst the use of Duke of Lancaster by The Queen as a style in the Duchy (Her Majesty the Queen, Duke of Lancaster) has been mentioned I'm surprised nobody mentioned that in the Channel Islands she uses the style Duke of Normandy, and on the Isle of Man the style Lord of Man. The former is still used in the Channel Islands as they were part of the Duchy of Normandy. Between the reigns of William I and John the King of England was also Duke of Normandy. When John lost Normandy the Channel Islands were the only remaining part of the Duchy. It is also the Channel Islands (and the Isle of Man) are dependencies of the Crown and not actually part of the UK (though the UK looks after their defence, foreign affairs, etc).

When the King's Own Royal Border Regiment, the King's Regiment and The Queen's Lancashire Regiment merged they adopted the title The Duke of Lancaster's Regiment in honour of the monarch, and to reflect the fact that the recruiting area of the regiment in a large part covers Duchy, or former Duchy, lands. The Queen is also Colonel in Chief of the Regiment.

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Originally Posted by btsnyder View Post
I've often wondered why Princess Anne declined a peerage for her husbands.
Whilst this was answered by branchg in post #94, many people forget though that Angus Ogilvy declined an Earldom on his marriage to Princess Alexandra of Kent.

If Anne did not hold the title The Princess Royal then she would be styled HRH The Princess Anne, Mrs Timothy Laurence. Prior to being created The Princess Royal in 1987 she was styled HRH The Princess Anne, Mrs Mark Phillips.

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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Can someone please give me a reasonable and good explanation of why in some reports such as from the DM, Camilla is still referred to as Camilla Parker-Bowles? I've yet to see a woman that has divorced and remarried that would still be referred to by her ex-husband's surname and I think its rather an insult to Camilla. Charles and Diana were referred to as the Waleses so wouldn't it be also Camilla's surname now too?
Camilla is officially HRH The Princess of Wales, though because of its association with Diana she uses the title HRH The Duchess of Cornwall. In Scotland she is HRH The Duchess of Rothesay, and Diana was known as that in Scotland as well, though of course to the rest of the world the Wales title is the one that was used.

When Charles becomes King, Camilla automatically becomes Queen. It has been stated however that she will be styled Princess Consort, and at the Coronation of Charles Camilla will not be crowned. Now this could change if it is many years until Charles becomes King, but Camilla will be Queen even if she chooses not to be styled as such. This was one of the reasons for the abdication of Edward VIII because there was nothing to stop Wallis Simpson becoming Queen Wallis if she married Edward as King. Camilla will not be styled Queen though because to too many people it is something they assume Diana should have been entitled to!

We've obviously seen this use of lesser titles in the case of the Earl of Wessex's children - they are officially Princess Louise and Prince James, but at their parent's requests they are styled as the children of an Earl.



To come round to what titles might be granted to William and Harry, I think it likely they would be granted Dukedoms on any marriage for either of them. In part this would be because if not then their wives would be styled HRH Princess William and HRH Princess Henry respectively!

It has been covered lots of times that the Dukedom of Cumberland and Teviotdale, and the Dukedom of Albany are unavailable because they could be restored to the descendants of the holders who had them deprived in 1919. They and their heirs weren't stripped of the titles, which I believe may have required an Act of Attainder.

It could be possible that a new Dukedom of Cumberland be created, separate to Cumberland and Teviotdale, as the latter title was created as in the Peerage of Great Britain in 1799. Therefore, a new creation for the Dukedom of Cumberland could be created in the Peerage of the United Kingdom. One reason this could be unlikely is that Cumberland does not exist as a county anymore, and Edward did receive some stick in the press for reviving the Wessex earldom after nearly a 1000 years!

Albany was created in the Peerage of the United Kingdom, so any new creation of this title is even less likely. Clarence is considered in some quarters an unlucky title, so this one may also not be re-created.

This leaves Cambridge and Sussex as Royal Dukedoms that could be conferred. Given that Harry is pursuing a career in the army I'm more inclined that this title could go to him, based on the historical associations of Prince George (grandson of George III) who succeeded his father as Duke of Cambridge in 1850 and was Commander-in-chief of the British Army from 1856 to 1895.

Sussex might be favoured for William as it is probably the least senior Royal Dukedom that has been used, so the fact it will be in time be joined (and superseded) by other titles might make it a choice. For example, when Charles becomes King then William will automatically become Duke of Cornwall (Peerage of England) and Duke of Rothesay (Peerage of Scotland), so would be styled HRH The Duke of Cornwall, Rothesay and Sussex. An alternative might be to grant him a newly create Welsh or even Northern Irish title. However, these would have no historical link unless it was decided to use one of the "bastard" titles, e.g. Duke of Monmouth. An alternative could be to create him Duke of Armagh, last granted as a subsidiary title to the Dukedom of Albany (as an Earldom).

I don't believe William would just be created an Earl in anticipation of eventually taking the Cornwall and Rothesay titles, as this would create an interesting dilemma with regards to a title for Harry, i.e. could he be created a Duke if his elder brother were just an Earl? As William has already received the Garter at such an early age I don't think he'd be denied a Dukedom on marriage.

A final option for William could be to use the titles that have been conferred in "joint" Dukedoms as a standalone one for him. By this I mean either Avondale or Strathearn (Though Teviotdale could theoretically also be granted as a standalone Dukedom of the UK).
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  #308  
Old 02-13-2010, 03:50 PM
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Oh, I forgot to add that I find the subsidiary titles of Royal Dukedoms just as interesting. It is now the norm that each title is from a different part of the UK.
  • Prince Philip is Duke of Edinburgh (Scotland), Earl of Merioneth (Wales) and Baron Greenwich (England).
  • Prince Andrew is Duke of York (England), Earl of Inverness (Scotland) and Baron Killyleagh (Northern Ireland).
  • Prince Edward is Earl of Wessex (England) and Viscount Severn (Wales and England), and is due to be created Duke of Edinburgh (Scotland) in the future.
  • Prince Richard is Duke of Gloucester (England), Earl of Ulster (Northern Ireland) and Baron Culloden (Scotland).
  • Prince Edward is Duke of Kent (England), Earl of St Andrews (Scotland) and Baron Downpatrick (Northern Ireland).
So what subsidiary titles are available to go with future Royal Dukedoms? Quite a few actually, though a number of these have passed outside of the Royal family in the past. The most recent to do so would be Milford Haven (Marquess), which in the past was granted as an Earldom (under the Dukedom of Cambridge) to the future George II by Queen Anne!

Subsidiary titles that I have worked out as still being available are: -
  • Berkhampstead (England) - granted as an Earldom several times, most recently as a subsidiary title of the Marquessate of Carisbrooke.
  • Carisbrooke - granted as a Marquessate for the former Prince Alexander of Battenberg.
  • Eltham (England) - granted as an Earldom several times, most recently as a subsidiary title of the Marquessate of Cambridge.
  • Kennington (England) - granted as an Earldom, last as a subsidiary title to the Dukedom of Cumberland granted to Prince William (son of George II).
  • Launceston (England) - granted as a Viscountcy several times, most recently as a subsidiary title of the Marquessate of Carisbrooke.
  • Northallerton (England) - granted as a Viscountcy at least twice, most recently as a subsidiary title of the Marquessate of Cambridge.
  • Tewkesbury (England) - granted as a Barony. Available following death of 7th Earl of Munster in 2000, descended from an illegitimate son of William IV.
  • Trematon (England) - granted as a Viscountcy several times, most recently as a subsidiary title of the Earldom of Athlone.
This obviously raises the question as to what subsiduary titles can be used from Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland to go with future Royal Dukedoms. Again, Strathearn, Avondale and Teviotdale could possibly be used as Scottish Earldoms (with an English Dukedom), but a Barony from Wales or Northern Ireland would still be required. Will be interesting to see what the experts come up with at the time, as I'm sure there must be some historical subsidiary titles they can find.
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  #309  
Old 02-14-2010, 10:06 AM
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Well, they were tour de force debut posts Helvellyn!
Welcome to the Forums, and may there be many more.
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  #310  
Old 02-14-2010, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by MAfan View Post
I guess it depends from where you are...I don't think in Britain they still call her Camilla Parker Bowles, but here in Italy they do...and more, each time they "create" new names and titles for her...
maybe in the USA they do the same...
I think that we call her by her civilian is because she wanted to be known as DOC. The American people is only familliar with the POW title---Plus DOC dosent roll of the tongue very well, now does it
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  #311  
Old 02-15-2010, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by DuedePhiladelphia View Post
I think that we call her by her civilian is because she wanted to be known as DOC. The American people is only familliar with the POW title---Plus DOC dosent roll of the tongue very well, now does it
I think for the most part there aren't many people that haven't in some way become familiar with the relationship between Charles and Camilla over the years. What galls me is the rudeness of calling a woman married to her second husband by her first husband's surname whether it be the Duchess of Cornwall or the lady two doors down the block from the average citizen. I'm pretty positive that if at Charles and Camilla's wedding Camlla chose to retain her surname of Parker-Bowles it most likely would have been made public. My thought would be that she would take the surname Mountbatten-Windsor when she married Charles.

Ah.. the little things that peeve us off eh?
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  #312  
Old 02-15-2010, 01:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Helvellyn View Post
I'm surprised nobody picked up on this, as Cornwall is an English Dukedom. It is conferred automatically on the male heir of the Sovereign alongside the Scottish Dukedom of Rothesay (which has the subsidiary titles Earl of Carrick and Baron Renfrew). The male heir (current the Prince of Wales) is also the Great Steward of Scotland and Lord of the Isles.
It isn't conferred. It is an inherited title and therefore there is no conferring at all.
Quote:
Interestingly, the Scottish titles are used in Scotland only, with the English titles elsewhere. Since Prince Charles was created Prince of Wales (and Earl of Chester) it is the Princely title he uses outside Scotland, but in Scotland he is known as the Duke of Rothesay (and Camilla as Duchess of Rothesay).
In Cornwall Charles is known only as the Duke of Cornwall and not the Prince of Wales.
Quote:
When Charles becomes King then William will automatically become Duke of Cornwall and Duke of Rothesay (plus Duke of X if he is granted another title in the meantime). It requires an Act of Parliament to create him Prince of Wales (and Earl of Chester).
It requires the issuing of Letters Patent by the monarch not an Act of Parliament.
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  #313  
Old 02-16-2010, 08:25 AM
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Technically, Charles is Duke of Cornwall in England, Prince of Wales in Wales, and Duke of Rothesay in Scotland, as the eldest son and heir to the throne.

In the UK as a whole, he is "HRH The Prince Charles" as a son of The Sovereign. The title "Prince of Wales and Earl of Chester" is not a Peerage, although it traditionally was treated as such, so he is styled "HRH The Prince of Wales" as a matter of practice.
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  #314  
Old 02-16-2010, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helvellyn View Post
I'm surprised nobody picked up on this, as Cornwall is an English Dukedom. It is conferred automatically on the male heir of the Sovereign alongside the Scottish Dukedom of Rothesay (which has the subsidiary titles Earl of Carrick and Baron Renfrew). The male heir (current the Prince of Wales) is also the Great Steward of Scotland and Lord of the Isles.
It was originally conferred to Edward, The Black Prince. But a charter written in 1421 means it is automatically inherited from the Sovereigns eldest son to heir. Which means if William passes away when his father is King, Harry would not become the Duke of Cornwall.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Helvellyn View Post
It requires an Act of Parliament to create him Prince of Wales (and Earl of Chester).
As Iluvbertie has said, you are wrong in thinking an Act of Parliament is used to give the heir apparent thr Principality of Wales and Earldom of Chester. It is a letters patent.
The DofE question has been brought up many a time.
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Originally Posted by Helvellyn View Post
If the Dukedom was granted with new subsidiary titles, then Edward could hold a Dukedom, two Earldoms, a Viscountcy and a Barony!
In this case it's probably more likely that he will recieve the two subsidiary titles Earl of Merioneth and Baron Greenwich. And still keep the title Earl Of Wessex.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Helvellyn View Post
I'm surprised nobody mentioned that in the Channel Islands she uses the style Duke of Normandy, and on the Isle of Man the style Lord of Man. The former is still used in the Channel Islands as they were part of the Duchy of Normandy.
She is not the Duke in a constitutional capacity and instead governs in her right as Queen. This notwithstanding, it is a matter of local pride for monarchists to treat the situation otherwise: the Loyal Toast at formal dinners is to 'The Queen, our Duke', rather than 'Her Majesty, the Queen' as in the UK.
The Channel Islands are not represented in the UK Parliament but each island has its own primary legislature, known as the States of Guernsey and the States of Jersey, with Chief Pleas in Sark and the States of Alderney. Laws passed by the States are given Royal Assent by the Queen in Council, to whom the islands' governments are responsible.
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Originally Posted by Helvellyn View Post
Whilst this was answered by branchg in post #94, many people forget though that Angus Ogilvy declined an Earldom on his marriage to Princess Alexandra of Kent.
You are right The Queen had offered Ogilvy an earldom on his wedding, which he declined. He also rejected a grace-and-favour apartment at one of the Royal Palaces.
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Originally Posted by Helvellyn View Post
Camilla is officially HRH The Princess of Wales, though because of its association with Diana she uses the title HRH The Duchess of Cornwall. In Scotland she is HRH The Duchess of Rothesay, and Diana was known as that in Scotland as well, though of course to the rest of the world the Wales title is the one that was used.
Camilla's full title: Her Royal Highness The Princess Charles Philip Arthur George, Princess of Wales and Countess of Chester, Duchess of Cornwall, Duchess of Rothesay, Countess of Carrick, Baroness of Renfrew, Lady of the Isles, Princess of Scotland.

The only difference between that and Diana's title was that she had "Great Stewardess of Scotland" as well. It was easier to call her Princess of Wales, as that is her highest rank of title.
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Originally Posted by Helvellyn View Post
It has been stated however that she will be styled Princess Consort. This was one of the reasons for the abdication of Edward VIII because there was nothing to stop Wallis Simpson becoming Queen Wallis if she married Edward as King. Camilla will not be styled Queen though.
There was no way, that Wallis Simpson could of married King Edward and he still remained King. So if he wasn't King, she could never call her self Queen.
The abdication was because Edward had to choose between Wallis or the Crown.
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Originally Posted by Helvellyn View Post
I think it likely they would be granted Dukedoms on any marriage for either of them. In part this would be because if not then their wives would be styled HRH Princess William and HRH Princess Henry respectively!..
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Originally Posted by Helvellyn View Post
This leaves. Cambridge and Sussex as Royal Dukedoms that could be conferred. Sussex might be favoured for William as it is probably the least senior Royal Dukedom that has been used, so the fact it will be in time be joined (and superseded) by other titles might make it a choice.
Whatever dukedoms the princes are given their wives will always be HRH Princess William or Henry. They would just have add ons.
There is a specific thread discussing the titles the boys and their wives may receive: http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...dren-6755.html
I presume Harry will become Duke of Sussex. And William may or may not be given anything.
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  #315  
Old 02-16-2010, 05:26 PM
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The wife of the heir to the throne does not use the styles of Lady of the Isles or Great Stewardess of Scotland, which reflect ancient titles of the eldest son of the Scottish King and were never held in the Scottish Peerage.

In Scotland, both Diana and Camilla were HRH The Princess Charles, Duchess of Rothesay, Countess of Carrick, Baroness Renfrew and Princess of Scotland. The last two are simply styles, not titles.
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  #316  
Old 02-16-2010, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by lumutqueen View Post
It was originally conferred to Edward, The Black Prince. But a charter written in 1421 means it is automatically inherited from the Sovereigns eldest son to heir. Which means if William passes away when his father is King, Harry would not become the Duke of Cornwall.
Except if William died with no children. At that point, Harry would automatically be the new Duke of Cornwall as the eldest son of The Sovereign and heir to the throne. Similar to what happened when Prince Eddy died (although he died while his grandmother, Queen Victoria, still reigned). The Duke of York became Duke of Cornwall as well when his father, Edward, became King.
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  #317  
Old 03-07-2010, 02:47 PM
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There was no way, that Wallis Simpson could of married King Edward and he still remained King. So if he wasn't King, she could never call her self Queen.
The abdication was because Edward had to choose between Wallis or the Crown.
My point was that at the time some tried suggesting a morganatic marriage could be arranged, so that Edward could remain King but that Wallis would not be Queen. As morganatic marraiges are not recognised in British law this was not possible and therefore it was the case that any marriage would have seen Walis become Queen. I'm fully aware that the Government made it clear to Edward VIII that a marraige would not be accepted and therefore it was the Crown or Wallis.

It is in that context I then made the point about Camilla. When Charles becomes King she will automatically be Queen. The plan though seems to be that she will not use the title to which she will be entitled, so when the time comes it will be interesting to see how the official announcement of her style is made.

We'd know this pretty quickly as it would liklely be announced after the Royal Proclamation of Charles asceding the throne where his title is formally announced. Most people expect he would rule as Charles III, though the odd report still surfaces that he might take the title George VII in memory of his Grandfather and also because of the histories of the two previous Kings called Charles - Charles I being beheaded and Charles II being a bit of a womaniser.

At least with either title the Royal cipher could be used throughout the country, as the Scots wouldn't be able to protest like they did about the use of EIIR in Scotland because there was never an Elizabeth I there.

I would assume those Commonwealth nations of which Charles became King would have to agree to accept the style as well, because Camilla would become Queen in each of those as well. Would be odd if we referred to her as Princess Consort in the UK, but she was referred to as Queen Camilla in say New Zealand or Canada.
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  #318  
Old 03-07-2010, 04:37 PM
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I fully expect if Charles becomes King, then Camilla will be Queen. There is no other title or style for her to use as the wife of The Sovereign and the precedent of 1936 makes it clear the wife of The King cannot be styled as anything else. Anything else would introduce an indefensible legal argument with no constitutional foundation.

The present situation is acceptable because she is using one of her titles, Duchess of Cornwall, as her main style. She holds equal rank to her husband and shares all of his titles, including Princess of Wales, but has chosen not to use the senior one out of respect for the late Diana.
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  #319  
Old 05-15-2010, 08:43 PM
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I don't think Harry will really want to have his children be HRH lol. He just seem to want to stay out the spotlight and live his life and I am sure he will want the same for his children.
I also think its a great idea to downsize the RF because there are so many lol compared to other Royal Families. I think just like the Dutch Royal Family, William's children should be entitled to HRH Prince/Princess since he is the hier to his father and Harry's children should be given the titles of Lady or Lord.

I also have a question about William's title if he gets married. If he gets married before the Queen passes does he get a dukedom?? And if he does will he keep that dukedom when he become 1st in line to the throne or will he loss it? For example, if he becomes, lets say, Duke of Cambridge when he gets married and then the Queen passes and obviously he will become Duke of Cornwall and Duke of Rothesay cont...but will he still be Duke of Cambridge? I hope that all makes sense if not just ask me to clearify.
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  #320  
Old 05-15-2010, 09:34 PM
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If he gets a Dukedom, he will keep it until he becomes King or dies. George V, for example, didn't lose the Dukedom of York when his brother died and he became Duke of Cornwall.
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