Remembrance Day Services 1: 2003-2021


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Duc_et_Pair said:
I am sorry. I am no native English speaker. Someone "in tears" meant "crying" to me, but apparently it has another meaning as well. No bad word about the Queen and the Duke: my apologies.
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I've always described this as leaking - as in, "Oh darn, now I am leaking" a tear or two when I did not intend to show emotion. Just a little feeling escaping out the eyes when not intended.

It's about the same volume as on a day when the allergies are really giving me heck. No lump in the throat, no choking back - just a little leak in the eye. :flowers: And it happens for both happy and sad, for me.
 
Festival of Remembrance 2017-

 
Duc_et_Pair said:
I have seen the whole Remembrance Sunday on BBC One and I have not seen Her Majesty in tears.
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Duc_et_Pair said:
I am sorry. I am no native English speaker. Someone "in tears" meant "crying" to me, but apparently it has another meaning as well. No bad word about the Queen and the Duke: my apologies.
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Please note that 'in tears' was your phrase, not mine. It was you who used the phrase 'in tears'. I merely mentioned (in the quote of my text that you referenced) 'the Queen's tears' without qualifying. :flowers: Just saying for clarification.

irish_royalist said:
The Countess of Wessex was on a different balcony, and there were screens at the sides of the balconies, so I doubt she would have been able to see the DoE if she had glanced sideways.
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Correct. I mis-stated and have corrected my post to say the Queen and Camilla. :flowers:
 
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I think Philip summed it up nicely about how the BRF feel about the media when he said “You have mosquitoes. I have the Press.” For the most part, although I'm sure they do keep a finger on the pulse of opinion, they view the press as an annoyance to be tolerated. :D
 
Sorry if this question has been addressed in words or pictures. I can't find it in a quick look.
The second set of 3 royals who placed wreathes. I recognized Pr. Anne, but couldn't see who the other 2 were. I assume one was Pr. Edward. Who was the third?
 
JSH said:
Sorry if this question has been addressed in words or pictures. I can't find it in a quick look.
The second set of 3 royals who placed wreathes. I recognized Pr. Anne, but couldn't see who the other 2 were. I assume one was Pr. Edward. Who was the third?
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Two prince Edward's ;)
Earl of Wessex (youngest son of QEII) and Duke of Kent (cousin of QEII)
 
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sndral said:
Presumably because his father was killed in WW2.
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The Duke of Kent served in the British Army for 21 years. He has multiple honorary colonelships in the British Army most famously the Scots Guards.
 
sndral said:
Presumably because his father was killed in WW2.
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Or for himself. :ermm: Unlike Anne and Edward, he has actively served.

The Duke served in the Royal Scots Greys, after graduating Sandhurst in 1955. He served both in Hong Kong and on peace keeping mission in Cyprus. In the 70's he also served in Northern Ireland. He retired in 1976, but as other royals, got promotions post retirement (honorary). He was made a field marshal in 1993.

Honorary he is colonel in chief of the fusiliers, deputy colonel in chief of the dragoon guards, and colonel of the scots guards and the rifles.

Those who have actively served (and not simply honorary positions):
-Prince Philip- royal navy (WWII)
-Prince Charles-royal navy
-Prince Harry- blues and royals (Afghanistan)
-Prince William- RAF but also trained blues and royals, and navy
-Prince Andrew- royal navy (Falkland wars)
-Duke of Kent- scot grays (Hong Kong, Cyprus, Northern Ireland)
-Tim Lawrence- navy (Northern Ireland, NATO Bosnia)
-Earl of Ulster- royal hussars (Iraq, Northern Ireland, Kosovo)
-Prince Michael- royal hussars (Germany, Hong Kong, Cyprus)
 
polyesco said:
Sorry if this has been asked before, what uniform is Edward wearing?
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/11/12/12/4643FA2800000578-5074463-image-a-208_1510488614625.jpg
https://i0.wp.com/royalcentral.co.u...hot-2017-11-12-at-13.18.34.png?resize=997,559
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He is wearing the dress uniform of the royal Wessex Yeomanry. He has been honorary colonel since 2007 (around the same time he started taking part in wreath and not up in balcony).

Once again Edward has got criticism for wearing an uniform when he dropped out. I know all royals have honorary positions, and I don't criticize them wearing them at official events such as this, but I do like when the focus is on their actual positions. I get William and Charles have to wear their senior uniforms at times, but I prefer them in their RAF and Navy, the units they actually served in.

It would be nice one year if we didn't just see the senior royals down there. But the ones who actively served. Its the one day that service should take precedence IMO over seniority. Tim should be down there, and even the Earl of Ulster would be nice to see with the family.
 
Countessmeout said:
Or for himself. :ermm: Unlike Anne and Edward, he has actively served.

The Duke served in the Royal Scots Greys, after graduating Sandhurst in 1955. He served both in Hong Kong and on peace keeping mission in Cyprus. In the 70's he also served in Northern Ireland. He retired in 1976, but as other royals, got promotions post retirement (honorary). He was made a field marshal in 1993.

Honorary he is colonel in chief of the fusiliers, deputy colonel in chief of the dragoon guards, and colonel of the scots guards and the rifles.

Those who have actively served (and not simply honorary positions):
-Prince Philip- royal navy (WWII)
-Prince Charles-royal navy
-Prince Harry- blues and royals (Afghanistan)
-Prince William- RAF but also trained blues and royals, and navy
-Prince Andrew- royal navy (Falkland wars)
-Duke of Kent- scot grays (Hong Kong, Cyprus, Northern Ireland)
-Tim Lawrence- navy (Northern Ireland, NATO Bosnia)
-Earl of Ulster- royal hussars (Iraq, Northern Ireland, Kosovo)
-Prince Michael- royal hussars (Germany, Hong Kong, Cyprus)
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Charles also served in the RAF from which he gained his wings in 1971 before he moved across to the navy from which he earnt his commission.

William was commissioned into the army from Sandhurst and served with the Blues and Royals to begin with but when told there was no way he was going to serve on the frontline he was able to use a loophole to transfer to the RAF (due to his eyesight he could never have gone directly into the RAF as a pilot but having gained his commission with the army he was able to transfer).
 
Countessmeout said:
He is wearing the dress uniform of the royal Wessex Yeomanry. He has been honorary colonel since 2007 (around the same time he started taking part in wreath and not up in balcony).

Once again Edward has got criticism for wearing an uniform when he dropped out. I know all royals have honorary positions, and I don't criticize them wearing them at official events such as this, but I do like when the focus is on their actual positions. I get William and Charles have to wear their senior uniforms at times, but I prefer them in their RAF and Navy, the units they actually served in.

It would be nice one year if we didn't just see the senior royals down there. But the ones who actively served. Its the one day that service should take precedence IMO over seniority. Tim should be down there, and even the Earl of Ulster would be nice to see with the family.
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Neither Tim nor the Earl of Ulster are royal though and so they have no place there. Tim is only on the balcony because of whom he married and not for any other reason and the Earl of Ulster - like the Earl Downpatrick is not royal. When the succeed to their Dukedoms on the deaths of their fathers the titles will cease to be royal dukedoms and in the order of precedence they will drop into the line based on date of creation of the dukedom while now it is on the fact that their fathers are male line grandsons of a monarch.
 
Iluvbertie said:
Charles also served in the RAF from which he gained his wings in 1971 before he moved across to the navy from which he earnt his commission.

William was commissioned into the army from Sandhurst and served with the Blues and Royals to begin with but when told there was no way he was going to serve on the frontline he was able to use a loophole to transfer to the RAF (due to his eyesight he could never have gone directly into the RAF as a pilot but having gained his commission with the army he was able to transfer).
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There is a difference between training with and active service. Yes William was with the blues and royals when he left Sandhurst but he never actively served, he transferred to the RAF as you stated. Similar with Charles, he trained at the RAF college but as soon as he passed out, he moved on to the navy which is where he did his service.

I was pointing out in my list where the royals had Actively served.
 
Iluvbertie said:
Neither Tim nor the Earl of Ulster are royal though and so they have no place there. Tim is only on the balcony because of whom he married and not for any other reason and the Earl of Ulster - like the Earl Downpatrick is not royal. When the succeed to their Dukedoms on the deaths of their fathers the titles will cease to be royal dukedoms and in the order of precedence they will drop into the line based on date of creation of the dukedom while now it is on the fact that their fathers are male line grandsons of a monarch.
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Kate is only up on the balcony due to who she married. Same with Camilla, Philip and Sophie. So I don't get your comment about Tim. :ermm:

They may not be 'royal' but they are members of the family. And this is not a 'royal family event'. This is a military event celebrating the bravery and often sacrifice of veterans. Having members of the family, royal or not, who actively served in the military, being involved in a military ceremony seems right.

Tim often does. He has attended many of the war memorials on the continent. He serves on the board of war graves commission. The only reason he isn't down there is because he is married to a daughter not to a son of the royal family.
 
Countessmeout said:
The only reason he isn't down there is because he is married to a daughter not to a son of the royal family.
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I hardly believe he'd be down there even if he was married to a prince instead of Anne.

Jokes aside it would be interesting to see what would happen if one of the princes married a lady who was or had been in active service. Would she be partaking in the laying of wreaths?
 
Countessmeout said:
Kate is only up on the balcony due to who she married. Same with Camilla, Philip and Sophie. So I don't get your comment about Tim. :ermm:

They may not be 'royal' but they are members of the family. And this is not a 'royal family event'. This is a military event celebrating the bravery and often sacrifice of veterans. Having members of the family, royal or not, who actively served in the military, being involved in a military ceremony seems right.

Tim often does. He has attended many of the war memorials on the continent. He serves on the board of war graves commission. The only reason he isn't down there is because he is married to a daughter not to a son of the royal family.
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Or to put it another way, he would have been standing next to his wife on the balcony in the not so distant past before Anne struck a blow for royal women and started wearing a man's uniform and riding in the trooping of the colour and laying her own wreaths on Remembrance Day.
 
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William is a Lieutenant Commander in the Navy. He served onboard HMS Iron Duke doing drug interdictions with the US Coast Guard in the Caribbean.

He missed Lady Rose Gelman’s wedding because of it.

William has some honorary ranks and positions. Most see him riding during Trooping the Colour but he’s also an Army Major, RAF Squadron Leader and Lieutenant Commander in the Navy. None are honorary.

But he clearly views himself as a pilot and rightly so. He took part 156 missions before leaving the RAF
 
Countessmeout said:
Kate is only up on the balcony due to who she married. Same with Camilla, Philip and Sophie. So I don't get your comment about Tim. :ermm:

They may not be 'royal' but they are members of the family. And this is not a 'royal family event'. This is a military event celebrating the bravery and often sacrifice of veterans. Having members of the family, royal or not, who actively served in the military, being involved in a military ceremony seems right.

Tim often does. He has attended many of the war memorials on the continent. He serves on the board of war graves commission. The only reason he isn't down there is because he is married to a daughter not to a son of the royal family.
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Kate, Camilla, Sophie and Philip though are royal. Tim isn't. Quite simple really. Notice though that the women, even though royal, don't lay wreaths but, like Anne's husband are on the balconies.

If a person has HRH they are royal. If they don't have it they aren't royal and only royals lay wreaths so Tim is on the balcony even though he served while his wife, who never spent a day in the military, lays a wreath because she is royal.

Being royal isn't determined by relationship to the monarch but by the styles they have. Both Princesses Margaret and Anne have made that very clear in relation to their own children 'my children aren't royal - they just have The Queen as aunt/grandmother'. If Anne and Margaret can identify that their family isn't royal even though they are close relatives of the Queen that is a good enough definition for me.
 
Iluvbertie said:
Neither Tim nor the Earl of Ulster are royal though and so they have no place there. Tim is only on the balcony because of whom he married and not for any other reason and the Earl of Ulster - like the Earl Downpatrick is not royal. When the succeed to their Dukedoms on the deaths of their fathers the titles will cease to be royal dukedoms and in the order of precedence they will drop into the line based on date of creation of the dukedom while now it is on the fact that their fathers are male line grandsons of a monarch.
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Earl of St. Andrews is the Duke of Kent's eldest son, Baron Downpatrick is the Earl's son just as the Earl of Ulster is the Duke of Gloucester's son and Baron Culloden is his son. No Earl Downpatrick in the family.
 
Countessmeout said:
There is a difference between training with and active service. Yes William was with the blues and royals when he left Sandhurst but he never actively served, he transferred to the RAF as you stated. Similar with Charles, he trained at the RAF college but as soon as he passed out, he moved on to the navy which is where he did his service.



I was pointing out in my list where the royals had Actively served.
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Small correction - William did serve with the Blues and Royals after he graduated Sandhurst. He spent 2007 as officer with them. 2008 he did his stints in the RAF getting his wings and Royal Navy before then transferring to RAF to become SAR pilot.
 
Duc_et_Pair said:
The Festival of Remembrance was perfect as ever, but it was a long seat to watch. I would recommend to shorten it, to make it less swollen and pompous and let the youth be more involved. Also the very thick sauce of the Church of England over the proceedings maybe is food for thought.

The UK is one of the most secularized states in Europe, the population is more multi-ethnic and multi-religious (or not religious at all) as ever before. Then rasing a "battlefield altar" in Albert Hall and singing the one Christian hymn after the other with an Anglican bishop in full ornate saying prayers and give a blessing looks like the Remembrance is stil in modus 1958.

What about Her Majesty's most loyal servicewomen and -men who are Sikh, Hindu, agnostic, Muslim, purely secular, Catholic, Humanist or whatever? I hope that the festival -as perfect and spotless the execution was- will find a more inclusive formula.
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I agree. There’s very little to no inclusion in the event. Hopefully this starts to change soon.

Although, I’m pleased to hear the hymn ‘Goin’ Home.’ Which is an original African American hymn.
 
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The Church of England is established by law. All church synod decisions must be approved by both Houses of Parliament.

So until the day comes and lawmakers decides something different there will always be the sauce of the CoE at big events especially Rememberance Day.
 
The Festival of Remembrance is put on by the British Royal Legion. The Queen is their Patron. It’s isn’t a government event like the Cenotaph Service.
 
Even more so for the veterans I’d say. There’s a saying about no atheists in foxholes.
 
Rudolph said:
Even more so for the veterans I’d say. There’s a saying about no atheists in foxholes.
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Its those that were in those foxholes that is the intrinsic purpose for which a remembrance time has come about. No matter what the denomination or the religious tenets that are used when remembering those that have given the ultimate sacrifice, the main point is that the Caretaker to whom they have returned is included.
 
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